Should we be ashamed? Why, yes, yes we should.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol

If the UK had opened its borders then the child would still be dead. They would have to cross the Med to get here.
The parents chose not to claim asylum in Turkey, a safe country which would have fed and clothed the child.
It was their choice as parents.
They #ed up in my opinion.

I dont think you get the scale of the problem. It's not just one child. It's hundreds if not thousands a year we are talking about here. I saw the pics of at least 6 dead children on that same beach.

I don't know about you but I'm actually surprised at all the help that is being given to the refugees. It reminds me of when I was a child and there were iniatives to help Africa.

Just a few headlines:

European Union approves 2.4 billion euros funding for migration crisis
news.yahoo.com...

EU gives 70 million euros in winter aid for Syrians in Lebanon
www.unhcr.org...

EU launches new aid program of 40 million euros to assist Syrian war victims
www.todayszaman.com...

EU grants 55m euros for education of Syrian refugees
www.jordantimes.com...

Since the beginning of the Syrian crisis, in addition to its bilateral programme, the EU has mobilised around 350-million euros to support Jordan in dealing with the humanitarian and developmental needs of both Syrian refugees and host communities.

EU announces $12.3 million in aid for Syrian civilians in Turkey, Syria
english.al-akhbar.com...

Germany donates EUR 2 million for Syrian refugees in Turkey
world.bgnnews.com...

Bayern Munich to raise €1m for Syrian refugees with asylum seekers to be mascots ahead of Augsburg clash
www.dailymail.co.uk... quipment.html

Cordaid receives 1,18 million euros for Syria
www.cordaid.org...

Netherlands sends €60m to Iraq, Syria & Yemen in refugee crisis response
www.nltimes.nl...


The above is just a 15 minute google search. Last few weeks I've also seen many reports of spontaneous initiatives by many people to help out, taking up refugees in their homes, collecting food and clothing, lots of good deeds. It actually changed my outlook on society a bit as I would expect much less help or many more protests from societies.

Though it's not all good - countries like Hungary, Spain, Latvia, Estonia, Poland and Slovenia only allowed a handful of refugees with Hungary exactly 0: www.euronews.com...

a reply to: seagull

So what else should I be ashamed of?

I'm sick of people telling other they should be ashamed because of such and such it's getting old.

a reply to: seagull

The problem is how do you fix those countries short of total military solution and complete societal makeover from the ground up?

It was attempted lately in Iraq, and I don't think anyone needs to tell you how that turned out. It was also attempted by the Soviets in Afghanistan, and that didn't go at all well either.

Because lets' be honest - We are really talking about failed countries with mostly failed cultures.

originally posted by: ketsuko
And how much in aid money have we sent to those nations? What were we doing sending that money if it only led to this?

How many people are we expected to care for when can't even care for our own?

Aid? We sent near 200 Tornado sorties into libya as well as giving the rebels 800 million in aid for "communication equipment". That's the "Aid" we gave those countries.

a reply to: thesaneone

I'll leave that up to you.

You're free to care, or not to, for all of me. I choose to give a damn, and do what I can, when I can. Just as you're free not to if that's your choice.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
I saw the pics of at least 6 dead children on that same beach.

So what?
I could pull pics of dead kids in Somalia or Nigeria if I wanted to.
You are a selective, picky, choosy drama queen, nothing more.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Rocker2013

"Poor" is subjective

In simplistic terms perhaps.
But seeing someone complaining that they are poor in comparison to a millionaire is not acceptable as an excuse to ignore when others are suffering.

It's interesting, years ago I would have believed that a community like that of ATS would be more Humanitarian in nature, but over the last few days I've discovered that the nationalistic, racist, xenophobic mentalities we see in the worst of society exist here too.

Anyone who can look at that image of that child laying face down on that beach and not feel like they want to help is a soulless, despicable, sickening waste of skin.

That's my judgment of these people, and it's not going to change.

Thankfully, it looks like the vast majority of people out there are now feeling motivated to do more, petitioning governments, starting charitable collections, organizing groups of volunteers to do the work our governments have failed to do.

a reply to: ketsuko

How "failed", to use your words, would they be without our constant, repetitious interference over the past seventy plus years?

Our chickens have begun to come home to roost.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: seagull

So what else should I be ashamed of?

I'm sick of people telling other they should be ashamed because of such and such it's getting old.

Are you sure it's not just plain old shame you're experiencing?
While millions of people around the world are doing something to help, some here claim that it's not their responsibility to help the "Muslim terrorists" - even when they're three years old.

a reply to: Rocker2013

if you are surprised by that, then you must be ignoring that ATS (as a population of humans) would absolutely represent the same cross section of our societies that any other website would.

What saddens/sickens me the most is that all the extra focus and effort that people may want to put in will be dumped lazily into the hands of "trust seniors" among our populations. So charities like The Clinton Foundation will get to continue raping the poor of the world while being funded by the dimwits among us.

Am I overly cynical? Damn straight...until someone proves me wrong.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

that's why one must be very careful about which charity one supports.

I am very careful with that.

We used to have many homeless folks in our city. We called them "Vietnam Veterans". It took a decade for the VA to build shelters for them. (Top-notch ones -- they are wonderful).

I don't see the U.S. offering sanctuary to Syrians anytime soon. It's so depressing. Seems all I can do is cry, and that's not helpful.

a reply to: seagull

What have you done to change a refugees life for the better?

How many poor people have you picked off the streets and put a roof over them or is doing enough mean just ranting from the comforts of you cozy home?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: Rocker2013

if you are surprised by that, then you must be ignoring that ATS (as a population of humans) would absolutely represent the same cross section of our societies that any other website would.

Nope, I'm sorry but that's just not correct.
This is a special interest group, not a cross section of any society. A forum like this attracts people who have certain similar traits, more prominently than would exist in any society.

If you had a Librarian convention it would not reflect any general society, because that group would have a greater interest in history, literature, Latin etc than the wider society.

A heavy metal concert doesn't reflect the wider society because it is a sub-culture with specific interests.

ATS doesn't represent any wider society because the majority of those here are deeply paranoid, deeply distrustful of governments and (seemingly) lack the basic Humanity our wider society possesses.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Age and wisdom allows such behavior.
Living off of disability DOES qualify as poor here in the US.I have NO idea what you are on YOUR high horse about but it smacks of liberal activism, so if so MEH to you.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: ketsuko
And how much in aid money have we sent to those nations? What were we doing sending that money if it only led to this?

How many people are we expected to care for when can't even care for our own?

Aid? We sent near 200 Tornado sorties into libya as well as giving the rebels 800 million in aid for "communication equipment". That's the "Aid" we gave those countries.

Yes, aid! Check it out. We give the whole ME both economic and military assistance every year.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Rocker2013

Age and wisdom allows such behavior.
Living off of disability DOES qualify as poor here in the US.I have NO idea what you are on YOUR high horse about but it smacks of liberal activism so if so MEH to you.

Ah, so being Humanitarian is a Liberal quality and therefore bad?
Which presumably means that being Conservative makes you selfish, greedy, ignorant and uncaring about the plight of others...

I thought so, thanks for clarifying what I already knew.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
I saw the pics of at least 6 dead children on that same beach.

So what?
I could pull pics of dead kids in Somalia or Nigeria if I wanted to.
You are a selective, picky, choosy drama queen, nothing more.

So What?.....Says it all really.