Should we be ashamed? Why, yes, yes we should.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

The collapse of local communities in todays UK is a direct result of Thatcher and her Tory millionaire scumbag friends.

Nah, it's down to crap communities.
Are you whinging that Scot communities are # because of Thatcher now???! Really?! Hahahahaha!!

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: seagull

I think it's past the time to shake off the excuses and the apathy and start moving. This is a humanitarian crisis and we in the west OWE our neighbours a safe haven from the hell they are escaping.
No child chooses where it is born, this whole mess is not their fault.

You know while it's great that this brings up concern for many let's be real on a few things.

1) we have people in the west including children going hungry every night. We have people in the west with no place to live, we have people in the west that don't get required medicine and the list goes on and on. I understand helping people and it's a good thing to do. But basically we have people in our own house at the moment not getting help they need. and people on this board have some nerve to come lecture that despite our us not taking care of our house we are bad for not taking care of the neighbors too. Really???? Are you kidding me????

2). The west didn't do anything nor did the mythical we. Governments made choices, and while you could make the argument that people elected the government not everyone voted for the same government. At no time did I or anyone else get presented a referendum and asked to vote on how to approach Syria before it got to this point so spare me ( we and the west did this. And now we or the west are responsible and owe) get a little perspective on the blame game. You want to raise this as issue that should be addressed fine. Drop the guilt trip of we or the west did this so now it's our responsibility and we owe.
3) children cannot help where they are born. Very valid point. Very humanitarian point of view and seemingly nice argument. Buy again I and we and the west had absolutely nothing to do with where the children were born so it's not we or the wests fault where they were born anymore than its the children's fault.
4) what are any of you that share these views doing to help? Donations, volunteering, agreeing to allow recent immigrants a place to stay?, etc? Or are we giving lectures on the ats forums?
I don't mind helping when and where I can. There are many causes that are worthy. But everyone get off the high horse, stop the blame so we owe posts, and save the guilt trips. You have somewhere to donate, time, money resources? Post it. You want people to reach out to congress, sign a petition post it. As for me, I have never been guilted to action. I have never accepted blamed nor that I owe for something I had nothing to do with, and I never will. You want to concentrate your helping efforts in Syria instead of at home, fine. I might be inclined to even help. Stop the lectures, come down to earth, and whatever you do stop this whole we are to blame so we owe garbage. I hear it all the time and it's not true. Excuse me so I can go throw up in my mouth now.

Seriously you have organizations that are helping that you recommend post a link. More than happy to read, see what they are asking for, make a determination, and possibly act. Got a petition. Same thing.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: thesaneone
is doing enough mean just ranting from the comforts of you cozy home?

Even if that were true, it's still better than ignoring the plight of others and claiming it's nothing to do with you.
I'm not even talking about any activism or any real work here, I'm talking about the simple act of feeling something for other Humans who need help.

The dismissive, selfish, racist, xenophobic and downright hateful attitudes I've seen here from some over the last few days has shown me that many on ATS can't even bring themselves to feel Human emotions about something that is clearly tragic and unjust.

Is it really too much to ask that people here feel emotions for people suffering, rather than saying "they deserve it"?

The conversations here and the opinions some are expressing about this issue are verging on psychopathy.

maybe you can highlight some of these obscene racist far right posts. You are ignorant and deceitful and people like you are doing more harm than good. If this is such a racist forum why are you wasting your time here.
The drivel you post is in my oppinion putting people off wanting to help.
The tories got voted in because of john lennon wishy washy fantasists like you.

I feel sorry for the babies and children. And that is more real feeling than their parents have. All this tribal killing and religious cults ruling their lives instead of instituting democratic form of government for all. You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

Careful RF and Seagul: seems that any questions asked or not toeing the line with some posters puts you in a class that lacks humanity, and membership in the uncaring society. That or you'll be labeled as a conservative. I wonder if some need a ladder to mount that high steed...

originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Careful RF and Seagul: seems that any questions asked or not toeing the line with some posters puts you in a class that lacks humanity, and membership in the uncaring society. That or you'll be labeled as a conservative. I wonder if some need a ladder to mount that high steed...

They can call me what they want,. Been called worse. I don't play the political identification game but hey whatever blows their hair back.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: seagull

The parents chose to leave a NATO member nation which was not oppressing them (Turkey) and pay someone to provide an overloaded inflatable dinghy to leave that safe nation to claim asylum in their preferred safe nation.
They could have claimed asylum in Turkey, been provided food and shelter, but they chose not to.

I support arguments for the UK to provide money and resources to all those safe nations, heck fund it with increased income tax by a few percent if need be, but keep these people close to their own lands, safe, until they can return to rebuild them.

The clashes currently in Hungary where people are refusing to register and claim asylum just show how folk are being more picky but less fleeing war/oppression.
They choose to leave safe Turkey via dangerous means across the Med.
They chose not to claim asylum in a safe country.

There is a loophole which means Turkey is classing most refugees as 'guests' rather than granting them refugee status, affording them no legal protection. Those that are allowed to work are being exploited as practical slaves and being paid a pittance whilst those stuck in the camps are surviving in rations while medical supplies are running dry. I have read several articles today where the father of the poor boy mentions how badly they have been treated in Turkey but none go on to give details.

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Boscowashisnamo
a reply to: Reallyfolks

Careful RF and Seagul: seems that any questions asked or not toeing the line with some posters puts you in a class that lacks humanity, and membership in the uncaring society. That or you'll be labeled as a conservative. I wonder if some need a ladder to mount that high steed...

They can call me what they want,. Been called worse. I don't play the political identification game but hey whatever blows their hair back.

I left other forums due to the inability of reasoned discussion, and got tired of being labeled or classified because I guess I'm not enlightened enough. Generalizing is one thing, but to be dismissed out of hand because my position is contrary to the progressive mindset is another. I just won't bow to the flavor 'o the day.

originally posted by: Britguy
but Assad didn't bow down to Israel and thus has to go.

It had to happen, the Jew haters come along and just blame the Jews!

a reply to: seagull

That picture tore me up and ripped my heart out. Yes we should be ashamed. We are very much to blame for what is happening in Syria. Assad is brutal yes, so is al Qaeda and ISIS, we created those and they're as much at fault for what's happening in Syria as Assad is.

We created isis? The christian west created isis? Phew

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: seagull

That picture tore me up and ripped my heart out. Yes we should be ashamed. We are very much to blame for what is happening in Syria. Assad is brutal yes, so is al Qaeda and ISIS, we created those and they're as much at fault for what's happening in Syria as Assad is.

What direct actions did you take in the Syrian issue that makes you feel this shame and guilt?

a reply to: seagull

Well, you beat me to it on this one, but it needs to go just a bit further. When you go to your fine churches and they pass the plate for those tax deductible donations to garner your entrance into God's so called kingdom of Heaven, remember where those donations actually go.

Also, sitting on your pity pot crying about poor service at your favorite eating establishment or how some degenerate stole your parking space or how your cell phone reception sucks or how Starbuck's screwed up your precious coffee order or flying into that fit of rage over the driver that just cut you off or your television show got canceled or what looks like a woman on Mar's is actually a rock shadow...just to name a few...

We get reminders everyday of the cruelty this human world has to offer and yes, sometimes we are given a chance to witness the kindness of strangers...to bad it doesn't happen more often that we see the kindness we are capable of rather than the pettiness of selfish, greedy, vanity, full of hatred behavior.

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Soloprotocol

The collapse of local communities in todays UK is a direct result of Thatcher and her Tory millionaire scumbag friends.

Nah, it's down to crap communities.
Are you whinging that Scot communities are # because of Thatcher now???! Really?! Hahahahaha!!

Before The Pits, Steel works, car manufacturing were closed those communities were doing just fine. And while we are on the subject of # communities, See the mining villages of Wales as an example. You know, your home.

It's quite ironic that 90% of Benefit porn programs are filmed in England and Wales.

a reply to: Kali74

...and there are thousands more past, present, and future, just like it.

Something has to change. ...and if we, as citizens of whatever nation, or humans worthy of that title, don't do it, who will?

There are no easy answers, only hard, and harder. But ignoring the problem, or blaming it on who ever, and I'm as guilty of that as anyone, won't make it go away.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

I voted for Obama in 2008. I didn't protest enough.

a reply to: seagull

No blame won't make it go away but acknowledgement can make or rather should make us rethink what we vote for.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Reallyfolks

I voted for Obama in 2008. I didn't protest enough.

Become a write in voter like me, it does wonders for the guilt factor. Don't be so hard on yourself. You seem to have many social issues you take to heart and only so many hours a day.

a reply to: Reallyfolks

I should be harder on myself, we all should.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Reallyfolks

I should be harder on myself, we all should.

Unless you can change the entire political process the little things may change but the end result will remain the same. Considering we had 120 million voters in 2012 with the vast majority democrat or republican that's a lot of people to get through to. Until then things like this will continue along with many other things regardless of a d or r which should be obvious. Unless you have a realistic plan to change 120 million people, again can't be too hard on yourself.