FOX News: Transgender girl drops class after 200 protest for and against her.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
I would argue it's not much a privilege to have genitalia on the outside of the body.

Maybe so but it's the rest of what they're attached to I'm talking about and what comes with being male in our society which it's hard to argue in our culture anyway, doesn't come with certain a certain built-in privilege.

a reply to: EKron

doesn't come with certain a certain built-in privilege.

It's in our weiners.

I agree that there are some definite perks to being male, but I'm still having a hard time seeing how this is male privilege.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

These same people think they should be able to say whatever hateful/hurtful things they want without repercussion -- and that the people it offends need to "toughen up".

Not quite. Besides people fighting and giving their lives for the right of free speech, it is a necessary component to any democracy. If you’re offended by people exercising this right, you need to do more than “toughen up”.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
It seems the "it makes me uncomfortable" people are also the people that complain about PC folks. These same people think they should be able to say whatever hateful/hurtful things they want without repercussion -- and that the people it offends need to "toughen up". Yet these same people also claim that it's OK for them to be made uncomfortable in a locker room?

I see a double standard here developing...

Not really.

PC would dictate that we bend over backwards not to make ANYONE feel uncomfortable, and in this situation, there is no way to avoid that no matter how it's handled.

Those 200 girls are all going to be made uncomfortable to be sharing their restroom with someone who is an anatomical male. Lila is going to be upset about sharing the facilities of other anatomical males and about having her own facility. And I'm guessing the boys will be upset about having Lila in with them because she is an anatomical male who dresses and otherwise is a girl ... except where she's not.

So exactly how do you handle this in a PC manner? I don't see it.

a reply to: Bennyzilla

I would agree with you if you can point me in the direction of anyone ever who was a male and identified as a female, and then woke up one day and was now magically a female.

Several medical conditions can result in a natural sex change in humans, where the appearance at birth is somewhat, mostly, or completely of one sex, but changes over the course of a lifetime to being somewhat, mostly or completely of the other sex.

The overwhelming majority of natural sex changes are from a female appearance at birth to a male appearance after puberty, due to either 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (5alpha-RD-2) or 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency (17beta-HSD-3).[5][6] A relative handful of male to female changes have been reported, and the etiologies of these are not well understood.[7][8]

So you agree with me then? Cool.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: JadeStar

This is the reason I dropped out of high school. It wasn't that I was "out" nor would I dare risk my life in such a community (I wanted to die by my own hands and not the cowboys in my school). So I didn't request any other arrangement. I simply couldn't shower with the boys because it was hard enough facing my own developments, let alone being expected to behave normally in a shower room.

I simply asked if there were any way around taking showers with a bunch of dudes and the answer was always "no". There were no therapists I could open up to and I was always an object of suspicion anyway (which is why I became as rebellious and offensive as possible to distract people from my actual issues). This is why it bothers me when people try to classify some late-transition people in a different category because we didn't have the luxuries nor resources to even begin so it's suppressed for years, manifesting as all sorts of behavioral problems and habits and, of course, self destruction. If survived, then maybe there is peace afterwards. It leads to the same situation your friend was in: prostitution, losing out on opportunities, etc.

Even having an out for PE (like maybe Yoga or something) would have saved my education and perhaps gave me the breathing room I needed to find help. It's not the perfect answer but it would help a great many students.

Thanks for the thread.

a reply to: EKron

Maybe so but it's the rest of what they're attached to I'm talking about and what comes with being male in our society which it's hard to argue in our culture anyway, doesn't come with certain a certain built-in privilege.

What privilege would that be?

a reply to: ketsuko

But not inaccurate. It's true. Between skeletal structure and DNA, that's where they'll put him absent any other clues. There simply is no other way for them to know.

How is his post relevant to this topic? He was trying to be cute without contributing anything to this thread.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
It seems the "it makes me uncomfortable" people are also the people that complain about PC folks. These same people think they should be able to say whatever hateful/hurtful things they want without repercussion -- and that the people it offends need to "toughen up". Yet these same people also claim that it's OK for them to be made uncomfortable in a locker room?

I see a double standard here developing...

It's on both sides, the other side says this person should not be made to felt uncomfortable by having to use the boys room or isolated by a seperated facility. Yet the girls should be. So again stripping away everything else this comes down to whose feelings take priority and there are hypocrite on both sides.

I will say though that despite some people claiming that those supporting the girls over Lila do so because of ignorance many valid reasons have been raised why they would feel that way with having opposite physical parts in the locker room.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
What privilege would that be?

Come LesMis, you're being obtuse. I know you are smarter than that and well studied in feminist philosophy. Don't play the dumb card to push my buttons. It is beneath you.

a reply to: EKron

Come LesMis, you're being obtuse. I know you are smarter than that well studied in feminist philosophy. Don't play the dumb card to push my buttons. It is beneath you.

It's a simple question. What privilege am I entitled to as a man?

You've declared "male privilege" a few times already. I'm just wondering if you could provide an example so I can go and collect it.

ATTENTION

Okay folks.

Let's stay on topic with the OP of this thread.

If you really feel like exploring other avenues of discussion, why not create a well thought out thread broaching that subject? It would be better to do so than to derail this thread.

Please Stay On Topic

Do not reply to this post.

a reply to: Cuervo

It's good for us to have those little bits of insight you provided.

Thanks!

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Domo1

I am straight, but I do not fit in neatly anywhere either.

I have to say, on that level I identify very strongly with folks who are often deliberately misunderstood and are victims largely of the stupidity of others.

Essentially, an awful lot of people have an ignorance problem, and they are not the ones getting told they cannot use the right locker room for them.

I'm getting sick and tired of being called stupid and ignorant because I DISAGREE.
This wave of insults against anyone who does not bow down to the trans movement and put them on a pedestal is causing much of the empathy I was developing for them, to melt away.

The feelings of the young girls are just as valid as this trans girl who JUST THIS YEAR came out as trans and suddenly wants to start using the girls' facilities, after having presented as a guy for the prior 3 years of high school. And suddenly the world must revolve around that decision? No. Just... NO.

Accommodations were made to alleviate the discomfort of this trans person. But the trans person was not content with having their discomfort alleviated... but wished to take it a step further with total lack of empathy for the discomfort of others. I consider that individual's expectations to be extremely self-centered.

a reply to: TrueBrit

the spreading of the p[pelvic bone would be awfully painful.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
For a shelter, you are right. Homeless females have been through hell. A women's shelter should be a women's shelter. You can't actually tell a homeless woman to find another shelter if they don't like it, there may not be a bed available anywhere else in the city. In this case, this is one's home, such as it is and there is nowhere else to go.

These are 2 different cases.

Not that different, I'm afraid.

A girl's locker room should be just that: a girls locker room. This trans student had a spot for herself, she chose not to use it. While the circumstances of homeless women and adolescent girls might be different, but the basic principle is the same. Most adolescent girls are not comfortable disrobing in the presence of a person who is male, and can even be pretty scary. Hell, I remember when I was 13, I didn't like changing in front of other girls, but changing in front of a boy would have been out of the question.

The separate area was a choice the Trans student refused. It wasn't like she didn't have an option, or was being kicked out of school. She refused to accept a fair compromise, and thus, can't reasonably complain.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JadeStar

She had a separate facility for her use. She chose not to use it.

I can understand why the rest of the girls would not want to use the locker room with an anatomical male.

yup. im with you.
i dont give a # about this girl boys problems.
if my daughter was made to use the girls room with a boy who thinks/feels like a girl but has a pecker, i would be livid.
thats about the size of it.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

herhis bones will tell the truth too in the future

What is it with ATS members' inability to respectfully disagree with transkids using whatever showers?

Why can't you guys just say "I respect her situation but her penis shouldn't be exposed to the other girls. It's unfortunate but maybe there's a better solution"?

Why do the ones who disagree have to use insults and totally invalidate the person? This is why you are viewed as bigots, not because you simply disagree.

I think it should be obvious if you fall into this category.