Scientists Say Climate Change Has Reached the ‘Point of No Return’

a reply to: Sremmos80

Okay. For the record. I have tried this before. Place ice in a cup, and fill it to the brim. Then, add drop by drop until the water is actually out of the cup and past the brim but not overflowing. Then, wait. When the ice is melted, the water level will be the same. None of it will have spilled. Melting Sea ice, or errant icebergs will NOT contribute to rising waters. However, much of the antarctic shelf lies on rock, and is therefor out of the water. THAT ice, if melted, will cause significant displacement. The water displacement of ice is a net zero.

I guess the Ice-Age that was predicted in the 1970's is finally upon us.
This is excellent news since I will be able to use my gas fired snowblower......

a reply to: 5leepingWarrior
Yes.
And sea ice helps to retain glacial ice. Lose the sea ice shelf and the glacial ice starts moving faster. An ice shelf is a maritime extension of a glacier and as such, plays a role in slowing a glacier's advance. The collapse of an ice shelf can accelerate the movement of a glacier into the ocean. The result being an increase in water displacement. That's the heart of the problem.
nsidc.org...

a reply to: Phage

You have to old enough to know what you are talking about. We just sold a wheat farm after 160yrs. because of the change. Because of the heat we don't get the multiple cuttings as in the past. I know what I see.

a reply to: MOMof3
I'm "pushing" 64 but not a farmer so am not in a position to judge changes in agriculture.
I have, however, been hang gliding for 2/3's of my life and things ain't like they was (some aspects better, some not so much).

Will you accept associate junior memberships?

a reply to: Phage

The farmer or gardener dont care why it is changing. What we care about is food. Masses of food. That is what will bring the US down. Do you really want to see family members go hungry? Like before there was farming production?

a reply to: MOMof3

Nope. I don't want to see anyone go hungry.
In case you didn't notice though, I agree that climate is changing. I happen to think that we are the main reason that it's happening and I also happen to think that, if we can't stop the damage done, we can mitigate it.

We're only "doomed" if we just roll over onto our backs.

a reply to: Phage

We are not doomed. Sometimes I think so. But that little inner voice still says not yet. But we need to accept and plan. Drop the blame game. Now all you smart people start thinking how we survive the changes and maybe do better.

a reply to: MOMof3

Slowing the rate of change would certainly be a place to start. We know how do to that. It's implementing it that's hard. There is a whole lot of inertia (political and physical) to overcome.

a reply to: Phage

The soft white winter wheat is so shriveled that farmers don't know if they can even sell it. This turns into subsidies for the farmer but nothing for the production of food. This change is weather patterns is serious for food. Yes, we can adapt but that takes time.

a reply to: Phage

Yes typically hail is a warm weather phenomenon because warmer weather produces stronger updraughts but that doesn't mean hail cannot form in colder weather. When freezing temperatures exist at lower altitudes hail is more possible in colder climates.

Factors favoring hail,,,,
Hail is most common within continental interiors of the mid-latitudes, as hail formation is considerably more likely when the freezing level is below the altitude of 11,000 feet (3,400 m)
link

a reply to: MOMof3

Yes, we can adapt but that takes time.

And there are ways to buy time.
But buying time can hurt and some people don't like to hurt no matter what the consequences of not hurting are.
Some people don't understand that working on a problem instead of ignoring it can actually have benefits.

a reply to: Phage

That has been my painful lesson of 65 years. Work on the problem. We have a big brain for a reason.

a reply to: Phage

We could really turn these threads into a drinking game.

Any real solution IS going to be multi-generational. That is a fact.

The solutions we have in our toolbox presently, including solar power, including reduction of emissions from power plants, including reducing auto emissions, are all going to be multi-generational.

We have yet to stop the rate of decay of the earths biosphere. I may be long dead by the time any of this effort reaches some kind of stable level (of decay).

Stabilized decay does not suggest the problem is solved. The next generation will have that tossed on their lap. Assuming that this generation is successful at such.

And having watched this coming generation grow up in a "everyone is a winner" environment, where more than 10 minutes of homework is deemed psychologically damaging to young fragile minds, where work is something you do to afford a hamburger and a video game ...

Well, it doesnt give me much hope for them.

Which brings me to the third generation. This generation will have the burdon of handling survival unlike anyone here can fathom. And the bottleneck will be borne again.

I wish I could agree with any other scenario. But I cant.

No, I think it rediculous to suggest that shutting off the lights and just quitting is a solution. Likely just a sarcastic responce, I expect. But that is kinda close to what I will expect from the next generation.

originally posted by: 5leepingWarrior
a reply to: Sremmos80

Okay. For the record. I have tried this before. Place ice in a cup, and fill it to the brim. Then, add drop by drop until the water is actually out of the cup and past the brim but not overflowing. Then, wait. When the ice is melted, the water level will be the same. None of it will have spilled. Melting Sea ice, or errant icebergs will NOT contribute to rising waters. However, much of the antarctic shelf lies on rock, and is therefor out of the water. THAT ice, if melted, will cause significant displacement. The water displacement of ice is a net zero.

Actually, melting sea ice does raise sea levels... it's just a small difference.

See, the problem is that you are using freshwater and ice in a cup. If you were to use saltwater and ice in a cup, then you should see a slight difference.

Freshwater floats on saltwater unless it gets mixed by motion; saltwater is more dense. This buoyancy effect is neat.

However, that sidesteps the fact that ice is flowing from land into the seas and increasing the sea level that way.

a reply to: smirkley

Any real solution IS going to be multi-generational. That is a fact.

Yes. And guess which generation has to start?

No, I think it rediculous to suggest that shutting off the lights and just quitting is a solution.

Who said it was? But I think you missed the point of my comment. It has to do with giving up on the situation. Before your time maybe.
www.historylink.org...

But other planets are heating up in our solar system, and theres nobody burning fossil fuels on those.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, the head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, recently linked the attenuation of ice caps on Mars to fluctuations in the sun's output. Abdussamatov also blamed solar fluctuations for Earth’s current global warming trend. His initial comments were published online by National Geographic News.

“Man-made greenhouse warming has [made a] small contribution [to] the warming on Earth in recent years, but [it] cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance,” Abdussamatov told LiveScience in an email interview last week. “The considerable heating and cooling on the Earth and on Mars always will be practically parallel."

www.livescience.com...

a reply to: kellyjay

But Solar irradiance has not changed significantly.

Your (somewhat dated) source:

But Abdussamatov’s critics say the Red Planet’s recent thawing is more likely due to natural variations in the planet’s orbit and tilt. On Earth, these wobbles, known as Milankovitch cycles, are thought to contribute to the onset and disappearance ice ages.

“It’s believed that what drives climate change on Mars are orbital variations,” said Jeffrey Plaut, a project scientist for NASA’s Mars Odyssey mission. “The Earth also goes through orbital variations similar to that of Mars.”

www.livescience.com...

Did you actually read the article?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: kellyjay

But Solar irradiance has not changed significantly.

Your (somewhat dated) source:

But Abdussamatov’s critics say the Red Planet’s recent thawing is more likely due to natural variations in the planet’s orbit and tilt. On Earth, these wobbles, known as Milankovitch cycles, are thought to contribute to the onset and disappearance ice ages.

“It’s believed that what drives climate change on Mars are orbital variations,” said Jeffrey Plaut, a project scientist for NASA’s Mars Odyssey mission. “The Earth also goes through orbital variations similar to that of Mars.”

www.livescience.com...

Did you actually read the article?

I did yes, i was merely offering up another possible cause, unless of course you were expecting a completely bias account?