"Let’s make the Confederate flag a hate crime" - College prof calls to criminalize display

originally posted by: TrueBrit

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

Racism is ignorant and those who support racism are ignorant. To wave around racist and hatefull symbolism and claim it isnt racist is rather ignorant.

Hmmm... By that logic, are you a racist? I only ask because your ignorance has been on full display in every post you have made in this thread, and you keep making it worse...

The people doing it know full well its racist yet persist in doing it its a choice they make out of ignorance, willfull ignorance that they are purposfully offending other people. Basically its a flag promoting slavery, to call it anything else is to be in denial of the truth.

I can find some black people in KKK robes that doesnt change what the KKK stands for one bit, racism period.

Never mind then, carry on!

Calling me a racist for wanting an end to racist symbolism, while your defending racist symbolism? So what your saying is those who want an end to racism and its symbolisms are the racists while the ones with the racist symbolisms arent racists at all. . . . .?



If someone supports racism and racists couldnt they be seen as racists too? Which is why the flag needs to go it is based on slavery period.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Believe hate speech is legal if you all want to, but no its not.

Prove it. Show me. Post here a source that proves hate speech is illegal.

Your not free to yell fire in a crouded theatre

That's not hate speech. And as I said, there ARE exceptions to free speech, but "hate speech" isn't one of them. Incitement, obscenity, threats of violence, etc., but NOT hate speech...

I keep hearing about a supposed “hate speech” exception to the First Amendment, or statements such as, “This isn’t free speech, it’s hate speech,” or “When does free speech stop and hate speech begin?” But there is no hate speech exception to the First Amendment. Hateful ideas (whatever exactly that might mean) are just as protected under the First Amendment as other ideas. One is as free to condemn Islam — or Muslims, or Jews, or blacks, or whites, or illegal aliens, or native-born citizens — as one is to condemn capitalism or Socialism or Democrats or Republicans.

No "Hate Speech" Exception to the First Amendment

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
If someone supports racism and racists couldnt they be seen as racists too?

I will NEVER defend racists, but I will defend FREEDOM. That means EVERYONE'S freedom! Even the freedom for a racist to be a racist.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Revisionist BS. They may not have owned slaves themselves but they very much supported the 'cause'. And what was that 'cause'? Check out the Declarations of Secession by the Confederate States, here. Every secessionist stumped on the North accepting blacks as equal (even though northerners didn't think so). That is how they drummed up support to secede and then to go to war.

It's okay though you don't have to change history to embrace that flag for whatever reason. You are American and can say the flag no longer means any of those things if you want to. Just stop trying to change history and stop demanding that the rest of us accept your definition well enough to let it fly on OUR buildings. Damn near every American back then thought Black people were lesser beings and therefor not entitled to the same rights as themselves, whether southern or northern. You don't have to change the morality of our ancestors in order to justify your own.

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

How does squashing a symbol change anything? In reality, it will create more awareness of the ideas represented by the symbol and a more zealous response to its destruction. So I won't have to reiterate, refer to my previous reply to you.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Just google it there are plenty of ignorant people out there. . . . There are African Americans in the KKK which suprises me.

Do you understand exactly what the KKK is and who they don't have in their ranks?

Why is the KKK the epitomy of racism toward blacks if they allow them to join?

Clueless...seriously clueless.

Some of the KKK are seperate from the other side apparently.the old guard are seen as too unbending and un supportive. the new blood apparently are more open. they seem to believe that if a white person chooses to associate with another race its fine and their choice. although they prefeer both keep to themselves they are starting to understand its not always possible and accdept it and roll on. Thats what I gather from my observation on the behaviour change.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
If someone supports racism and racists couldnt they be seen as racists too?

I will NEVER defend racists, but I will defend FREEDOM. That means EVERYONE'S freedom! Even the freedom for a racist to be a racist.

Well I wont defend racists because thay dont deserve the freedoms they have. Does a racist terrorist have the right to do anything other than be sent to prison, nope not at all. Those who cheer on in support of mass murder and other like minded crimes are just as bad, and are the real problem. Racists are a problem, and racism is not ok nor will it ever be.

a reply to: Kali74
It's a mindset I still find surprising. Like "let's pretend the southern states were the only ones who had slaves". An attempt at self righteousness? People ALL OVER the U.S. had slaves during that period, at least the wealthy. In fact, slavery was common all over the world. Southern states have been railroaded into the soul entities of atrociousness. Makes people feel better to point fingers.

People have to find something to feel "superior" over. So play the pretend game, and let's reduce it to southern states so the rest of us can feel all smug and self righteous.

originally posted by: OrdoAdChao
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

How does squashing a symbol change anything? In reality, it will create more awareness of the ideas represented by the symbol and a more zealous response to its destruction. So I won't have to reiterate, refer to my previous reply to you.

Every journey begins with a single step. Racism has to go there is no place for it in the future, in fact its 2015 i dont know how on earth so many people can be racist its just ignorance.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord


Every journey begins with a single step. Racism has to go there is no place for it in the future, in fact its 2015 i dont know how on earth so many people can be racist its just ignorance.

Okay, I can agree with that, but you did not answer my question.

originally posted by: OrdoAdChao
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

How does squashing a symbol change anything? In reality, it will create more awareness of the ideas represented by the symbol and a more zealous response to its destruction. So I won't have to reiterate, refer to my previous reply to you.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
Well I wont defend racists because thay dont deserve the freedoms they have.

EVERY citizen deserves the freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution. Just because you disagree with them, doesn't mean you can take their freedom away.

Does a racist terrorist have the right to do anything other than be sent to prison, nope not at all.

A terrorist? If they have committed a crime, they should be in jail. But racism isn't a crime.

Those who cheer on in support of mass murder and other like minded crimes are just as bad,

Excuse me? Who is supporting mass murder and crimes??? No one.

Racists are a problem, and racism is not ok nor will it ever be.

I agree. But simply being a racist is not against the law, nor should it be...

I can't help but wonder if you are a US citizen, since you know so little about our laws and Constitutional freedoms.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Don't misunderstand me, I hate all the Confederate flags... I think choosing to embrace any one of them is at best an act of willful ignorance and revisionism of history, I'll leave the worst unsaid.

But even for all of my opinion on those people (highly demographically relegated to the south but not exclusively and certainly not all inclusively)... they have the right and I will defend that right.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Revisionist BS. They may not have owned slaves themselves but they very much supported the 'cause'. And what was that 'cause'? Check out the Declarations of Secession by the Confederate States, here. Every secessionist stumped on the North accepting blacks as equal (even though northerners didn't think so). That is how they drummed up support to secede and then to go to war.

It's okay though you don't have to change history to embrace that flag for whatever reason. You are American and can say the flag no longer means any of those things if you want to. Just stop trying to change history and stop demanding that the rest of us accept your definition well enough to let it fly on OUR buildings. Damn near every American back then thought Black people were lesser beings and therefor not entitled to the same rights as themselves, whether southern or northern. You don't have to change the morality of our ancestors in order to justify your own.

Ignorance displayed. First of all, re-read the post you replied to. Now, tell me again how you KNOW exactly what his relatives were thinking when they fought that war.

If someone invaded your neighborhood and tried to force you and your family out, burned your neighbors house and started to walk towards yours, would you ask them what they were fighting against, or would you do all you could to stop them, then worry about why they wanted to kill you and take away your home?

You can have all the history you like, but you are not omnipotent and you absolutely cannot tell someone what others feel. It's not an option and makes you look foolish.

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
If someone supports racism and racists couldnt they be seen as racists too?

I will NEVER defend racists, but I will defend FREEDOM. That means EVERYONE'S freedom! Even the freedom for a racist to be a racist.

Well I wont defend racists because thay dont deserve the freedoms they have. Does a racist terrorist have the right to do anything other than be sent to prison, nope not at all. Those who cheer on in support of mass murder and other like minded crimes are just as bad, and are the real problem. Racists are a problem, and racism is not ok nor will it ever be.

so if we decide that fundamentalist Christians are too much of a radical group and need to be rounded up and put in a camp, you are good with that too?

a reply to: network dude

They... meaning those that didn't own slaves.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Don't misunderstand me, I hate all the Confederate flags... I think choosing to embrace any one of them is at best an act of willful ignorance and revisionism of history, I'll leave the worst unsaid.

But even for all of my opinion on those people (highly demographically relegated to the south but not exclusively and certainly not all inclusively)... they have the right and I will defend that right.

Hating a Inanimate object is stupid in reality. Do you know to hate something by definition you have to have a little love for it at one time. PEople misuse hate alot. its actually worse to DISLIKE something.

@formofthelord. I have a alabama battle flag. it was inherited from someone in my family. I see it as not a symbol of hate. Same thing could be argued against the MALCOLM X flag correct? It means different things to different people. I see them both as symbols of pride,not slavery or division. Personally a X flag should be up with a rainbow flag too.

To outright ban and make this flag a hate crime to possess is really unamerican.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting
a reply to: Kali74
It's a mindset I still find surprising. Like "let's pretend the southern states were the only ones who had slaves". An attempt at self righteousness? People ALL OVER the U.S. had slaves during that period, at least the wealthy. In fact, slavery was common all over the world. Southern states have been railroaded into the soul entities of atrociousness. Makes people feel better to point fingers.

People have to find something to feel "superior" over. So play the pretend game, and let's reduce it to southern states so the rest of us can feel all smug and self righteous.

While I absolutely agree with what you are saying I don't believe that is what Kali is saying.

I think she is leaning towards being the person you are talking about.

Correct me if I am wrong Kali.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Well, we wouldn't think so much of it, if this weren't exactly the way the "Outrage Of The Week" gets started. Some Progressive comes out whining about something that offends them, next thing ya know, others, who hadn't even heard of it, much less had an opinion, jump on the PC band wagon and suddenly, it's a national issue. They don't bother getting the facts, it's just something to whine about and bully everyone else in to seeing it their way. And God help you if you don't cave in. You're automatically branded a racist for having a different opinion, Twitter explodes with fake outrage and the public shaming begins. I'd say most of the folks whining about the Confederate flag now, had no opinion on it [ or slavery itself beyond "it's bad" ] till the subject hit the news and someone told them which opinion to have. Which is the way they generally operate.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: FormOfTheLord
If someone supports racism and racists couldnt they be seen as racists too?

I will NEVER defend racists, but I will defend FREEDOM. That means EVERYONE'S freedom! Even the freedom for a racist to be a racist.

Well I wont defend racists because thay dont deserve the freedoms they have. Does a racist terrorist have the right to do anything other than be sent to prison, nope not at all. Those who cheer on in support of mass murder and other like minded crimes are just as bad, and are the real problem. Racists are a problem, and racism is not ok nor will it ever be.

so if we decide that fundamentalist Christians are too much of a radical group and need to be rounded up and put in a camp, you are good with that too?

I have been thinking the same thing since He/She started in this thread.

That coming from someone considered a 'fundamentalist'.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Don't misunderstand me, I hate all the Confederate flags... I think choosing to embrace any one of them is at best an act of willful ignorance and revisionism of history, I'll leave the worst unsaid.

But even for all of my opinion on those people (highly demographically relegated to the south but not exclusively and certainly not all inclusively)... they have the right and I will defend that right.

Yes, I feel the same, and most everyone on this thread seems to be in agreement. I watched "Larry Flynt vs. the Supreme Court --( or some court, can't remember the title exactly) last night and everything he endured to maintain the right to publish his porn - Hustler Magazine. He was finally shot (and confined to a wheelchair for the rest of his life) by an overly zealous citizen who felt he shouldn't have that right. It's this type person, and this hysteria that concerns me.

Not you Kali, you obviously pose no mortal threat to anybody, but people can become hysterical and go into frenzies over these kinds of issues. Look at the Nazi's, ya know? But I think this crisis du jour will soon take a back seat to the next one. : )

I will say the south had more slaves because of the plantation lifestyle. Picking cotton was a real bitch and nobody wanted to do it. It was not as difficult for slaves in the North being confined to the homes, helping women lace their girdles and such. If they had had plantations, we would be seeing something entirely different I believe. Nothing self-righteous about it. It was all about economics.