U.S. Spy Plane Records China's Artificial Islands, China Threatens Response

originally posted by: pez1975
a reply to: luthier

i dont think this is a derailment at all all this pertains to why china wants those islands they need them for expansion and the US does not want them to expand or the other countrys in the region all the other issues discussed are relevant to why this south china sea thing is happening

The reason for this is China feels it's territorial claims and territory has been taken from them. They know they aren't getting parts back from Russia yet. They eventually will make this move and have started but more important they learned a lesson from Russia. Russia took their territory and for to keep it. CHina believes this is a method to gain what they want. And know just like with Russia who's going to stop them. Russias claims is all but gone Vietnam well not a threat. Japan would fight over this but again that would make a mess possibly causing world war 3. So Intervention By the US is prudent in this since China would fire on Japan but unlikely to do so on US.

Don't know if this has been posted but warning shots fired is being reported...

Updated about 5 hours ago
The Philippine defence minister says Manila is "gravely concerned" over reports a Chinese warship has fired a warning shot on a Filipino fishing boat in the disputed South China Sea.

www.abc.net.au...

a reply to: JimTSpock

If accurate China wont have a leg to stand on.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: pez1975
a reply to: luthier

i dont think this is a derailment at all all this pertains to why china wants those islands they need them for expansion and the US does not want them to expand or the other countrys in the region all the other issues discussed are relevant to why this south china sea thing is happening

The reason for this is China feels it's territorial claims and territory has been taken from them. They know they aren't getting parts back from Russia yet. They eventually will make this move and have started but more important they learned a lesson from Russia. Russia took their territory and for to keep it. CHina believes this is a method to gain what they want. And know just like with Russia who's going to stop them. Russias claims is all but gone Vietnam well not a threat. Japan would fight over this but again that would make a mess possibly causing world war 3. So Intervention By the US is prudent in this since China would fire on Japan but unlikely to do so on US.

That's not really the reason but more the excuse. The reason is its a rich fishing ground and full of oil and gas. Same reason they are starting to drill all over Africa. They need energy to keep up with expansion.

originally posted by: JimTSpock
Don't know if this has been posted but warning shots fired is being reported...

Updated about 5 hours ago
The Philippine defence minister says Manila is "gravely concerned" over reports a Chinese warship has fired a warning shot on a Filipino fishing boat in the disputed South China Sea.

www.abc.net.au...

Its propaganda. China and the west are still far too currently intertwined to start a war. China looses its market and the west looses its supply chain. It would be very bad for the fragile global economy, the world wouldn't be the same , and militarily speaking its a draw and would lead to mutual destruction.

There is very little chance any country on earth would risk that over this trade route issue. The economic impact of fighting china and loosing our supply chain and destroying the global economy is much more serious and damaging than a trade route issue. It will be tough words and little spankings that's it.

If not no need to worry the society you now enjoy would no longer exist.

What I do not understand is this.Why do we need to fly over the disputed islands.

Do we not have more advanced ways to watch what is going on.

Or is this just another was to try and piss of China.

originally posted by: grayghost
What I do not understand is this.Why do we need to fly over the disputed islands.

Do we not have more advanced ways to watch what is going on.

Or is this just another was to try and piss of China.

Mostly yes. Its posturing to draw a foul. We certainly have aircraft that can go high enough to avoid detection and its not a Forrest or jungle so yeah.

Its our right to do it is the point I guess. And to bring awareness to the situation, test their response etc.

I would have responded;
This is Malaysian flight 370
requesting permission to land.

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: grayghost
What I do not understand is this.Why do we need to fly over the disputed islands.

Do we not have more advanced ways to watch what is going on.

Or is this just another was to try and piss of China.

Mostly yes. Its posturing to draw a foul. We certainly have aircraft that can go high enough to avoid detection and its not a Forrest or jungle so yeah.

Its our right to do it is the point I guess. And to bring awareness to the situation, test their response etc.

No a spy plane can vacuum up all kinds of communication.That plane visiting there did something satellites cant. It soaked up every communication in it out of the area meaning phones faxes radio transmissions satellite feeds. They heard the conversation when they reported that the amaricans were their when they communicated that to china. They know know the cell numbers of any cell phones located there. That is why they sent a spy plane.

a reply to: luthier

That's what they said about the U-2 when they over flew the Soviet Union and China. Right up to the point they lost a number of them to Soviet missiles.

a reply to: dragonridr

Technically the P-8 isn't a spy plane. Like the P-3 it can perform the mission, but not nearly as well as say an EP-3 or RC-135.

It appears China is establishing throw-away fire support bases on subsurface atolls. The long term maintenance of these facilities will most likely be an exercise in futility. As super typhoons spin across the South China Sea subsurface atolls become shallow reef breaks producing powerful top-to-bottom surf. There is the possibility that China will be employing these soon, for first strike offensive operations.

There is no precedent to what is going on here, rules and laws don't actually apply, this should be looked at for what it is...

Island building.

How big does it have to be to constitute "territory"

However we feel about the permanency, that rule can apply to whole continents in the scheme of things 'we own Krakatoa" ooops we did....

They will only get better at this, I see it as progress, I think they are in the right. We invade for what we want territoriality they are building in the open sea, it's a more proactive solution for their problems

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dragonridr

Technically the P-8 isn't a spy plane. Like the P-3 it can perform the mission, but not nearly as well as say an EP-3 or RC-135.

What the p8 isn't a spy plane?? OF COURSE IT IS. Now found out CNN had a news crew on board you get to see the crew working.

a reply to: dragonridr

No, it's an ASW aircraft, which requires a visual search, and limited ELINT/SIGINT capability for that role. It doesn't have the dedicated equipment for intelligence gathering that you find on dedicated aircraft.

originally posted by: Nowornevertill

originally posted by: dragonridr
I think what shocked me the most is just the lack of professionalism.

Why should China show professionalism and respect towards USA.

I am not Chinese

I am white guy never been to Asia and i don't show US respect of any kind.

They did create ISIS, wars world wide and did 9/11.

People like that don't deserve respect.

Obviously you do not understand. This is not a "spy plane" it's a patrol aircraft and it is performing a freedom of navigation exercise. I did the exact same thing 20 years ago. The Spratly islands issue has been going on for a long time. The Chinese want to claim those waters for resources and so they literally create land so they can claim "territorial waters." They really are working against international law.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Couldn't you make one p8 dedicated to sig-elec Intel gathering and just tell everybody it's doing ASW?

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: dragonridr

Technically the P-8 isn't a spy plane. Like the P-3 it can perform the mission, but not nearly as well as say an EP-3 or RC-135.

What the p8 isn't a spy plane?? OF COURSE IT IS. Now found out CNN had a news crew on board you get to see the crew working.

No it isn't a "spy plane." It is the patrol aircraft that replaced the P3 Orion and it has ASW and ASUW missions. What it is doing here is performing a freedom of navigation exercise in accordance with international law.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: jude11

I always find it amazing it always revolves around the US. Other Pacific nations share the same view as the US and those nations are also challenging China on the issues - diplomatically, economically and militarily.

The Us is not the sole nation on this planet and they are not responsible for everything that occurs on this planet. in this case China's actions created the problem.

Well the op mentions the US and the USA has like almost every other country done some pretty #ty things as part of its foreign policy. And has a record of ignoring sovereignty and going off half cocked like a aggressive attack dog.

So dont be surprised if its put under heavy scrutiny.

China is likely in the wrong, in fact it probably is. But let the thing go through the UN and the other pacific nations first.

The how evil the US is defence is old an worn out. As a country they have a right to protect there intrests and the intrests of allies on asia. This is an important area for navigation by many nations therefore important to maintain it. China trying to claim large portions of it as there's isn't going to go over well. There is already legal proceedings if China thought they had any validity to their claims they would handle it in court. Obviously they are not so this tells us there legal claims is dubius.

Now I will say the reason that plane was there is someone is compiling a report for the UN. When they went to get a detailed look like that they are looking for chinas Navy not the island could see that from satellites.

I have already said I think china is in the wrong


Im just playing devils advocate here.

After the big royal # up both our countrys have done to the world in recent history I think a little debate and srutiny is in order for the time being on all our actions even if in the right.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

They're looking at some interesting mods of both the P-8 and other aircraft to do other missions as well.