Kentucky ‘free range’ family loses custody of 10 kids over apparent ‘unschooling’

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I was a teacher. I know how hard they/we work. I also know the system in public education. The system is not set up to allow teachers to teach or kids to learn.

Teach or learn what?

I went to public school in the 50s. It was no different. It was read, memorize, take a test. The big difference is there was a LOT of favoritism - - - something that is difficult in the new system. There was one kid who never learned to read - - but because his mom was president of the PTA they just kept pushing him through.

There are over 4 million kids in public school. There has to be a standard system.

Unless you have a better idea.

a reply to: Annee

Teaching is a local issue. Not a federal issue.

a reply to: Annee

Annee, the REAL world is a world where you meet people from all backgrounds, ages, religions, groups etc.

You don't do that at school. The adults you meet are just your teachers. The people you mix with are all your own age group. School is not the 'real' world. It's the opposite spectrum of the 'old folks home'.

I never doubted teachers work hard, even very hard. However, I'm not the only one wondering what on Earth have they been told to teach and why is it so 'backward'.

Why hold back the more academic children?

Why cater to the slowest child first?

What's with all the propaganda and social engineering?

Why do schools no longer teach practical skill ?

Why does everyone have to agree with the same viewpoint?

a reply to: Elliot

This is what happens when a federal based teachers union works to drive whats best.....that is whats best for the union.

Want smarter/successful kids? Go back to localized schools and teaching. Remove the Federal based teachers union.

And boo hoo for the area with low grades and students. Want better schools? Start being involved then, and stop looking to a centralized all deciding figure to resolve all your woes.

a reply to: Elliot

Annee My husband has been teaching since the 90's. He says it's a lot different from then until the last few years.


Elliot, my husband always expresses frustration wit your first question. He''l tell you to talk to the administration, because schools get more money for a kid they can label with a learning disorder, or adhd, than they can those smart kids. Smart kids rob the school of extra funding.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: jjsr420
I was in both public, and homeschooling, so i have firsthand knowledge of both. Public schools are little more than indoctrination centers. I used to get in trouble, IN TROUBLE, for correcting teachers in school. I learned more from my family, and myself, than i ever learned in school.

The problem with public schools are legion. Kids fall behind and very rarely do the teachers care, atleast in my experience, and the experiences of many people ive talked to.

I'm sorry, but speaking as the husband of a teacher who has been educating children in the US and UK I have to disagree loudly about the above. Yes, the teachers do care. My wife cares. She teaches for a reason - to educate. And she loves to encourage along the way. And when a kid falls behind she notices, she alerts and she does her best to get that kid back to where they should be.

I am becoming fast convinced that very few non-teachers have the faintest idea how hard teachers actually work.

Re-read my statement. I never said "all teachers don't care", of course there are the few that do. MOST of them, however, don't; from my own personal experience. Please. Take some time to READ what I said before you reply. If your wife is like you say she is, she's a rare flower in a pile of manure, and I give mad props to her. However, my experiences, and the experiences of those whom i've been around, says that most teachers do not care.

So, here is an example. When I was young, in 3rd grade I had a surgery, which caused me to miss alot of my schooling. Nobody went back to help me catch up. Not one single teacher, or aid dedicated any time when I got back to school to help me. Instead, I failed 3rd grade because the work was too advanced for me because i'd missed so much due to surgery, which wasn't my fault. I could give dozens of more examples. Dozens.

a reply to: ketsuko

It is very much a progressive notion that the state knows better than you do, and that is very much what we see in evidence here.

Um


no.

That is not "progressivism."

I was a teacher, too. For a long time.

Off The Grid with Facebook & a Blog...


I smell a reality TV show coming soon.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: ketsuko

It is very much a progressive notion that the state knows better than you do, and that is very much what we see in evidence here.

Um


no.

That is not "progressivism."

It may not sum it up, but it is a tenet - a major tenet.


Don't be dishonest.

originally posted by: jjsr420
So, here is an example. When I was young, in 3rd grade I had a surgery, which caused me to miss alot of my schooling. Nobody went back to help me catch up. Not one single teacher, or aid dedicated any time when I got back to school to help me. Instead, I failed 3rd grade because the work was too advanced for me because i'd missed so much due to surgery, which wasn't my fault. I could give dozens of more examples. Dozens.

That was not your teacher's fault, or the schools fault.


That was your parent's fault.

a reply to: Seamrog

Don't be dishonest.

Okay.
I won't.

And, to the best of my knowledge, that is not what progressivism is about. So - okay, I'll bow out of the thread now.

Y'all have fun.

ETA: (Check my other posts in this thread to see what I think.)

Also, BERNIE SANDERS.

originally posted by: Seamrog
That was not your teacher's fault, or the schools fault.


That was your parent's fault.

Seriously? How do you know what the circumstances behind their surgery were? You don't know whether it was elective or non-elective surgery. You don't know whether their parents attempted to obtain the necessary course work to stay on par. You don't know if their parents asked for any kind of extra-curricular help from the teachers or school. You know nothing of the sort.

So to sit there and blindly claim that the blame rests solely on their parents is wrong.

a reply to: EternalSolace


A teacher has 20-30 other kids to teach. She cannot reasonably devote the enormous time it takes to homeschool a sick / injured child at the expense of the rest of the class.

The teacher, the school, the State - they are not responsible for the child.

The parent is.

If this poster's parents failed to see to their education while they were sick, it is solely their fault.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
*snip*

Unless there is evidence of abuse, incest, deliberate withholding of literacy skills, access to the internet, etc . - or appropriate education in the kids' interests, I think these people have every right to raise their kids this way.
Or, maybe they're just a crazy cult.
I don't know.

Do any of you follow this family's media postings? Presumably there IS internet activity, and the pic of the family does not look like they are inbred Kentucky toothless mouth-breathers distilling moonshine and all that "Deliverance" crap.

Thoughts?

I mostly agree with you, that this is ridiculous. It is the right of parents to decide how to educate their children, not of any government. I do have to question something you said, though.

Why would it matter of they had internet access? Why would that lack, if there even was one, be considered abuse or neglect? There is a lot of nasty stuff online, and parents have every right to NO allow their children to use the net.

The government just doesn't like parents raising their own kids, free of state-sponsored brainwashing.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

Why would it matter of they had internet access? Why would that lack, if there even was one, be considered abuse or neglect?

It wouldn't necessarily be neglect (and certainly wouldn't be abuse) - but if one is going to homeschool one ought to have access to best-practice information, and being on the internet teaches literacy as well as offering limitless source material from which to teach.

The internet is a viable alternative to school curricula and textbooks, worksheets and lectures, etc. if one is determined to learn ANYTHING, they can do it on the internet. If the parents were illiterate, how could they homeschool? Plus, even if they stay relatively isolated on their property, the kids can learn about other cultures, other ways of life, etc. on the web.

so

Controversial 'free range' parents appear in court to win back TEN children as adult son testifies against them and accuses father of abuse
Joe Naugler and pregnant wife Nicole lost their children and are in court because Kentucky authorities disagree with 'free range parenting' style
Breckenridge County 'free range' children had independence from infancy
CPS found family of 12 was living in squalor and took custody of ten kids
Naugler's adult son, Alex Brow, 19, said he was abused as child by father
Children were not returned to their parents after court hearing on Monday


Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

yeah.
not cool at all.

Busted.

Here Are 7 Surprising Things You Need to Know About Joe and Nicole Naugler

Not registered as homeschoolers
Father has an arrest record for passing bad checks, driving without insurance or registration, failure to appear
Kids have no SSN or birth certificates available
Kids are allowed from infancy to go wherever and do whatever they want, whenever
There is no "cabin", it's a lean-to with stockade walls
Not the first time they've been contacted by CPS
Squalid conditions include piles of debris
Pond that is not fenced to protect the kids from falling in or entering
Neighbors and acquaintances had posts on FB related to their previous knowledge of the family


Technically, Nicole Naugler is Not a Homeschool Mom

Also, the estranged eldest son of Joe Naugler, who was removed from him at age 4 or 5, and has not known him since, testified that he suffered from physical and mental abuse before he was removed from Naugler's "care."

So, yeah. I know CPS has a bad reputation (for good reason in many cases), but it looks to me like this crowd really does need some intervention for the sake of the kids (including the unborn one). Bottom line, this is irresponsible parenting and needs to be addressed.

Please submit flames with civility. What do you all think now?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I have defended them from the start even tho I don't agree that young kids should not be involved in building a off grid homestead. But she posted a update on the court hearing and mentioned her oldest 19 year old testified against them, allegedly because he was taken from the home at a early age and since they didn't raise him this was the reason for the negativity...I didn't buy it. She then removed the post.

So we have some one who was convicted of passing bad checks involved in a gofundme campaign and they are upto 41k. People have such mistrust of the government its easy for many to be deceived and I feel like I was deceived by this family.

They may be the over bearing parents indoctrinating there kids that we all feared they could be.

Amme you were right to question them.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

The biggest mistake this family made was posting their families activities
on facebook and online.I would strongly suggest to anyone reading this post,get off
all social media! I had to watch the video I had watched earlier to confirm
what I had heard.The officer talking to the mom mentioned her facebook
activities.