Kentucky ‘free range’ family loses custody of 10 kids over apparent ‘unschooling’

Yes there are smart homeschoolers. There are also smart public school kids. Don't you think parent involvement either way probably makes the difference?

The majority of homeschooling is for religious reasons. And it's not all perfect.

How I (barely) survived home schooling

I don’t know if you’ve seen Homeschoolers Anonymous, but you should. The first generation of the American home school movement has grown up, and a lot of them now say they were abused. They are now speaking out, and it’s causing quite a stir. -

www.patheos.com...

They want to control your mind like 1984.

a reply to: Annee

I have personally seen homeschooling in action and most of the kids I know that was raised this way outperformed kids around them that went to public school. I assume there are exceptions to this, but if you think our public school system is somehow better I have no idea what world you are living in.

Most home school curriculum are religious based, basically this industry has identified a market and have acted accordingly.

Are there extremist parents that raise there kids in cult like settings, yes of course there is, but certainly not all. Considering these kids in question have blogs, and public out put on there story of off grid living, its doubtful this is one of those over bearing families.

Unless you have any evidence to show otherwise? You seem in your posts to be negative about this family, can you explain why?

originally posted by: LDragonFire

Unless you have any evidence to show otherwise? You seem in your posts to be negative about this family, can you explain why?

Where have I said anything negative about this family?

I did say parents involvement is the key to a child's education whether they are homeschooled or public schooled.

I have a kindergartner. The complaints I get from other parents is that their children bring work home and they don't want to spend time doing homework. "If the school was doing their job, there wouldn't be homework".

My kindergartner is already learning his time tables because I work with him at home. I also make him do extra credit on homework that is too easy for him.

Life's tough. IMO it's important to be able to sit in a crowded office and/or plow a field if you need to. Life is not a playground, unless you prepare and do the groundwork first.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

CHILDREN are not "property."
That is all I have to say on that matter.
The future of our society will show the results.

You are right. 'Children' are not property. That is a civil statutory status, like 'spouse' and 'driver' and 'person', that when used permits 'jurisdiction'.

I can tell you that after our 5th (and last); All being fruits of my loins, and fruits of their Mother's labor, all honestly aquired, they are as much our property as I am the property of their mother and she is the property of me.

Either property is exclusive, or, it is all owned by the State and they lease it to us. I prefer the former.

a reply to: J.B. Aloha

I disagree. Your offspring are not your "property". They are individuals who take 2 decades to mature. They are your "responsibility", but they are not yours to "own."

-----------------------------------------------

That said, I spent some time this morning (before getting together with my adult son) looking over the family's newest social media plea for help.

I read through dozens of comments. On learning more, I am not convinced that the home is adequate or the parents of truly sound mind. But, I don't think the children should have been "taken". The parents showed very questionable behavior when confronted - so, at this point I don't know.

I have been looking into Kentucky's history of malfeasance and the corruption of their CPS (which is pretty much a rampant thing across this country, in my experience). But bottom line, the woman was uncooperative and belligerent; the father allegedly insinuated a threat of harm to his neighbor who protested the family stealing water (by telling his young boy to "get the gun" when the well-owner confronted him in the act), and there are reports of neighbor hostility - so - I'm going to watch and see how it unfolds.

Personally all I care about is the welfare of the kids. Living outdoors and off the grid is one thing, but threatening neighbors and behaving belligerently is not a good example.

I dunno.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Again, you used a civil statutory status... 'individual'. There is only 'man' and 'woman'. To which, [dependant] fruits are not...

Don't get me wrong, Criminal code all falls under the common law, and, any violation thereof needs to be dealt. However, in regard to the OP, having no [criminal] charges filed, the family needs to demand the immediate restoration of their property and file a claim [not a suit] for remuneration of deprivation of their right to property [in a court of record], or this will prove to be a statutory cat and mouse game.

I am not seeing anything in this case other than recital of statutory policy. Statutes are not law. They are litterally a franchise terms and conditions agreement. You consent to abide by them. [A whole other can of worms and not the topic of this thread]

No criminal charges, in regards to their property, or in regard to the dispute... The rest is moot.

(Dammit, cat just deleted my whole reply)...

I'm not talking about "civil statutes" - I'm talking about a person being themselves. Humans are born "immature" - needing total care, or they die. Mammals in general mature faster (but not all).

A parent's job is to keep the young alive, healthy, and educated in whatever environment they have 'landed' - whether it's the Australian outback or a Detroit ghetto - and it takes 25-ish years to guide them to that point.

I don't want to argue with you about semantics. Children are not "property" in any way, shape or form. They are people. Individuals. My son is a very different person than my daughter is. They are both "fruit of my womb" and their father's "loins" - but they are sovereign entities.

But, you're right, it's off topic.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
...but they are sovereign entities.

That!

I do not disagree with you through the duration of this thread. Only in status of 'offspring' or 'progeny'.

When can they act in this [soverign] capacity? And if they truly are sovereign, why must the State interfere? If no criminal charges have be brought?

Surely, the older ones, sovereign as they are, would have demanded emancipation if it was so bad...

This is a good thread and there will be time to argue the finer points of 'status'elsewhere.

These parents allow their childern to learn from 'natural experiences'? What the hell does that mean? if they get rained on they learn they get wet? Genius! That'll come in real handy on a job interview, huh? What happens when these student of natural experiences are no longer children. Are they planing on just living in the woods somewhere, to earn an advanced degree in 'Experiences'? This situaltion is the same as any family refusing to send their kids to school - slacker parents who hide behind trendy pop culture to justify their irresponsibility - see vaccine deniers, home schoolers. etc. All these parent are doing is setting up thei kids to awkward outsiders for life. Way to go, Mom/Dad.

originally posted by: TownCryer
These parents allow their childern to learn from 'natural experiences'? What the hell does that mean? if they get rained on they learn they get wet? Genius! That'll come in real handy on a job interview, huh? What happens when these student of natural experiences are no longer children. Are they planing on just living in the woods somewhere, to earn an advanced degree in 'Experiences'? This situaltion is the same as any family refusing to send their kids to school - slacker parents who hide behind trendy pop culture to justify their irresponsibility - see vaccine deniers, home schoolers. etc. All these parent are doing is setting up thei kids to awkward outsiders for life. Way to go, Mom/Dad.

This message is brought to you by years of government educa.... indoctrination, anything considered different is wrong. Homeschooling isn't about teaching that water is wet but usually in the form of a curriculum that focuses on math, reading and writing. The smallest amount of research into home schooling would show just how laughable your post is.

In Alaska kids that live in the bush are all home schooled from a curriculum that comes from the states education department, and this program is very effective and has been in place for decades.

Just keep attacking things you don't understand, everything will work out in the end, right?

WAKE UP!

And 5 minutes spent talking with any Home Schooled kid will show just how 'new' and 'diferent' they are. Part of growing up is learning how to relate to other people - people who aren't your parents - people who don't fawn all over you everytime you learn some piece of info their perent wants them to know. A one-sided, mis-guided, adgenda-driven 'education' is worthless in the real world. Home schoolers are not exposed to the real world until it's too late to prevent them from being permanently socially awkward. You want to bring up people who grow up in Alaska? Those people are also not exposed to the same type of upbringing that most of the country experiences. In that sense, people raised in Alaska are also 'outsiders' in may respects. You like not growing up like most people? Fine. Your call. Know that as a result, you won't fit in as well as most people, in most situations. That's probaly fine too. You grow up differently, you turn out differntly. If you're into differnt, there you go.

a reply to: LDragonFire

school these days is less about learning and more about being conditioned to accept big brother. the ability to understand freedom and why it is valuable is something that you wont get from a public education.

today in america anyway.

I was in both public, and homeschooling, so i have firsthand knowledge of both. Public schools are little more than indoctrination centers. I used to get in trouble, IN TROUBLE, for correcting teachers in school. I learned more from my family, and myself, than i ever learned in school.

The problem with public schools are legion. Kids fall behind and very rarely do the teachers care, atleast in my experience, and the experiences of many people ive talked to.

Children who go to school are not socialised but institutionalised.

Home Schooled children are exposed to the REAL world and meet PEOPLE of all ages everyday and so relate to them far better than children who are trapped with only those of their own age group all day.

I have one who was home educated and is far more socialised than any of my other children ever were at that age.

My one who was home schooled went to a local school for a few months and they were impressed at my child's maturity, intelligence and achievements. Turned out nothing was missed in all those years we stayed away from schools....only gained! Exams were passed early and my child was years ahead in some subjects.

Says a lot really and I have never met a home educated child who wasn't years ahead of state instituionalised children.

originally posted by: jjsr420
I was in both public, and homeschooling, so i have firsthand knowledge of both. Public schools are little more than indoctrination centers. I used to get in trouble, IN TROUBLE, for correcting teachers in school. I learned more from my family, and myself, than i ever learned in school.

The problem with public schools are legion. Kids fall behind and very rarely do the teachers care, atleast in my experience, and the experiences of many people ive talked to.

I'm sorry, but speaking as the husband of a teacher who has been educating children in the US and UK I have to disagree loudly about the above. Yes, the teachers do care. My wife cares. She teaches for a reason - to educate. And she loves to encourage along the way. And when a kid falls behind she notices, she alerts and she does her best to get that kid back to where they should be.

I am becoming fast convinced that very few non-teachers have the faintest idea how hard teachers actually work.

originally posted by: Elliot
Children who go to school are not socialised but institutionalised.

Home Schooled children are exposed to the REAL world and meet PEOPLE of all ages everyday and so relate to them far better than children who are trapped with only those of their own age group all day.

What REAL world is that? The one they are going to live in, say in 20 years?

Look ahead 20 years. Where do you see society?

I don't understand the "either, or". A responsible parent is a responsible parent, whether a child goes to public school or is homeschooled.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It is very much a progressive notion that the state knows better than you do, and that is very much what we see in evidence here.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I was a teacher. I know how hard they/we work. I also know the system in public education. The system is not set up to allow teachers to teach or kids to learn.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Just another victimized family of the Progressive Govt we have.
Not surprised.