Obama adviser John Podesta's biggest regret: Keeping America in dark about UFOs.

It's shocking how poorly educated in science and critical reasoning the general population is. It's no wonder some Western countries are falling behind in science. Our educational systems have failed to provide people with even the basic tools to cope in the modern world. It seems unlikely that this is accidental.

a reply to: Tangerine

Where is testable evidence that a vast disinformation black ops campaign designed to brainwash the public into believing in the visitation of alien life forms in the manner you're suggesting has been in active operation for over 50 years?

And is that really the simplest explanation?

Your big answer to all this is bad men in shadowy rooms playing make believe?

And you question my reasoning and critical thinking skills?

If the simplest explanation is usually right would it not be more logical to conclude that the limited amount of evidence is due to limited visitation?

Not some world wide conspiracy of smoke and mirrors.
Not some galactic plot to drain the souls of all huamnkind.

Simple. Easy.

A slighty more advanced species made contact. Perhaps a probe, perhaps a scout, or exploration team.
Just advanced enough to make it, but not advanced enough yet to establish full and consistent contact.

After all,we dumb americans just happen to chuck robots onto distant planets for the sheer joy of it.

If we can do it, any advancing species could.

As for the secrecy, well #. Look at us.

If you don't tell us the whole truth right away we make # up.

I'm sure you can reason out the public reaction to something like:

"We met some aliens, they seem to be more advanced then us and not that far away. Umm, they got shiny ships, kinda like big disks?.....ummm yea we can't talk to em or anything so....that's all. Good night."

originally posted by: Thorneblood
a reply to: Tangerine

Where is testable evidence that a vast disinformation black ops campaign designed to brainwash the public into believing in the visitation of alien life forms in the manner you're suggesting has been in active operation for over 50 years?

And is that really the simplest explanation?

I stated it as opinion (ie. belief) not fact.

It would seem that when 70 years of devoted research has failed to produce an iota of testable evidence proving that extraterrestrials exist, visit earth and abduct people, looking for other explanations might be more productive than running into the wall over and over again. One of the things to consider is that the government has used various means to get people to believe the ETH for its own purposes. That does not mean that nothing is happening to people. It simply suggests that it might not be the result of ET.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: debonkers

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
What I'm saying is this. If someone says God or aliens don't exist that is their belief.
Yet if someone says prove it they will invariably say you can't prove a negative which is basically saying they believe something that cannot be proven. Simple.

No, if someone says aliens exist or aliens do not exist, that is a claim of fact. Fact is based on testable evidence only and the onus is on the person making the claim of fact to cite the testable evidence making their claim fact.

You've tried to push this load of rubbish quite often, tangerine, but it is not the least bit true. Let's make this clear.

A fact is something that is true. Simple as that.

No one has to prove it to you for it to be a fact. No "testable evidence" must be cited, as you continually bleat.

All your whining demands that you must have proof before it is a fact is petulant nonsense.

Merriam-Webster definition of Fact:

1. The quality of being actual.

2. Something that actually exists.

I don't see any mention of satisfying the subjective evidentiary demands of anonymous internet trolls as a prerequisite.

There is no "onus", and no burden of proof. You know this, or you should know this, because I educated you on this very point last month.

A fact doesn't require universal consensus, or any consensus, for that matter. It simply must be true.

And if a poster says that alien contact is happening and has been happening, that is a fact because it is true.

Your satisfaction is completely irrelevant to alien contact being a matter of fact. Your opinion has no bearing whatsoever. Alien contact is a fact because it is true, some people know that, and some people don't.

I refer you to a basic course in science. True (ie. truth) is the purview of philosophy not science. Truth is a belief. There are many truths. It is true that Jim thinks the sunset is beautiful. It is true that Sally thinks the sunset is not beautiful. Both are truths.

I didn't use the word truth, I was correcting your misuse of the word "fact", to which I referred you to the dictionary.

A fact is something that is true, or actual, or exists. Simple as that.

No one has to prove it to you for it to be a fact. No "testable evidence" must be cited.

All your whining demands that you must have proof before it is a fact is petulant nonsense.

Merriam-Webster definition of Fact:

1. The quality of being actual.

2. Something that actually exists.

I don't see any mention of satisfying the subjective evidentiary demands of anonymous internet trolls as a prerequisite.

There is no "onus", and no burden of proof. You know this, or you should know this, because I educated you on this very point last month.

A fact doesn't require universal consensus, or any consensus, for that matter. It simply must be true.

And if a poster says that alien contact is happening and has been happening, that is a fact because it is true.

Your satisfaction is completely irrelevant to alien contact being a matter of fact. Your opinion has no bearing whatsoever. Alien contact is a fact because it is true, some people know that, and some people don't.

a reply to: Tangerine

So basically the last few pages where in you belittle and deride anyone with even the slightest belief in alien visitations due to lack evidence was disinformation designed to bolster your own equally illegitimate theory (by your standards) about bad men in shadowy rooms playing make believe?

I think I just saw your credibility scurry back down the drain, maybe you should follow it.

I see it this way.

He has been involved in the UFO community before, meaning that he knew the power and effect his statements would have on this.

He is fairly wealthy and well off for life, is fairly powerful and well connected and a fairly famous and well known public figure. And regardless of his views, he has to be highly intelligent, and effective to hold this job.

So we know he's not completely wacko, and not doing this for fame and fortune. He said this for a reason, not just.."I'm sorry we didn't disclose UFO fallacy so that the public will leave us alone on this non issue..." He didn't say that.

Conclusion? He knows something about the existence of, or visitation of an Alien Race to planet earth.

Or, why else would he say it if not for fame and fortune or because he's unhinged?

Just my opinion and theory.

Then again, maybe he is in it for the money after his career dries up, but that doesn't seem to fit?

originally posted by: Tangerine
It's shocking how poorly educated in science and critical reasoning the general population is. It's no wonder some Western countries are falling behind in science. Our educational systems have failed to provide people with even the basic tools to cope in the modern world. It seems unlikely that this is accidental.

I couldn't agree more, but I'm struck by the irony of your statement. I also agree that it is most likely not accidental.

The topic of this thread is "Obama adviser John Podesta's biggest regret: Keeping America in dark about UFOs".

The topic in threads is NEVER each other or opinions of each other. Please stick to the topic or move on and remember all opinions are allowed, snide personal comments are not.

You know the drill. Keep it up and posts will be removed and posting ban's are possible. ENOUGH.

Do not reply to this post.

a reply to: amazing

Id like to think some one in such a high position could find a better job after politics.

originally posted by: Thorneblood
a reply to: Tangerine

Where is testable evidence that a vast disinformation black ops campaign designed to brainwash the public into believing in the visitation of alien life forms in the manner you're suggesting has been in active operation for over 50 years?

And is that really the simplest explanation?

Your big answer to all this is bad men in shadowy rooms playing make believe?

And you question my reasoning and critical thinking skills?

If the simplest explanation is usually right would it not be more logical to conclude that the limited amount of evidence is due to limited visitation?

Not some world wide conspiracy of smoke and mirrors.
Not some galactic plot to drain the souls of all huamnkind.

Simple. Easy.

A slighty more advanced species made contact. Perhaps a probe, perhaps a scout, or exploration team.
Just advanced enough to make it, but not advanced enough yet to establish full and consistent contact.

After all,we dumb americans just happen to chuck robots onto distant planets for the sheer joy of it.

If we can do it, any advancing species could.

As for the secrecy, well #. Look at us.

If you don't tell us the whole truth right away we make # up.

I'm sure you can reason out the public reaction to something like:

"We met some aliens, they seem to be more advanced then us and not that far away. Umm, they got shiny ships, kinda like big disks?.....ummm yea we can't talk to em or anything so....that's all. Good night."

Well said, Thorneblood. For someone to suggest that the phenomenon of alien contact is simply the result of disinformation is absurd. On that alone, to call into question the critical thinking and reasoning skills of others is laughable.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Thorneblood
a reply to: Tangerine

Where is testable evidence that a vast disinformation black ops campaign designed to brainwash the public into believing in the visitation of alien life forms in the manner you're suggesting has been in active operation for over 50 years?

And is that really the simplest explanation?

I stated it as opinion (ie. belief) not fact.

It would seem that when 70 years of devoted research has failed to produce an iota of testable evidence proving that extraterrestrials exist, visit earth and abduct people, looking for other explanations might be more productive than running into the wall over and over again. One of the things to consider is that the government has used various means to get people to believe the ETH for its own purposes. That does not mean that nothing is happening to people. It simply suggests that it might not be the result of ET.

Let's nip this farce in the bud right now.

The government has never done a single thing to encourage people to believe in alien contact.

Not once in the last seventy years.

Quite the contrary, they have expended enormous resources to convince the American public that alien contact is not happening.

So let's stick to reality a little bit. Or is that "critical reasoning" at work?

originally posted by: debonkers

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Thorneblood
a reply to: Tangerine

Where is testable evidence that a vast disinformation black ops campaign designed to brainwash the public into believing in the visitation of alien life forms in the manner you're suggesting has been in active operation for over 50 years?

And is that really the simplest explanation?

I stated it as opinion (ie. belief) not fact.

It would seem that when 70 years of devoted research has failed to produce an iota of testable evidence proving that extraterrestrials exist, visit earth and abduct people, looking for other explanations might be more productive than running into the wall over and over again. One of the things to consider is that the government has used various means to get people to believe the ETH for its own purposes. That does not mean that nothing is happening to people. It simply suggests that it might not be the result of ET.

Let's nip this farce in the bud right now.

The government has never done a single thing to encourage people to believe in alien contact.

Not once in the last seventy years.

Quite the contrary, they have expended enormous resources to convince the American public that alien contact is not happening.


So let's stick to reality a little bit. Or is that your much-vaunted "critical reasoning" at work?

On the contrary, the government has used a very effective set of techniques to get people to believe that extraterrestrials visit earth. They have made ludicrous claims to explain away UFO sightings. The ludicrous nature of the claims naturally leads the public to believe that they are lying. For example, virtually no one accepts the swamp gas explanation precisely because it's ludicrous. The mass delusion explanation is similarly ludicrous. Multiple independent witnesses in different locations mistaking Venus for a UFO moving across the sky and plunging into the woods is ludicrous.

The government is fully capable of providing far more credible explanations (whether or not they are lies) yet I believe they select ludicrous explanations for the express purpose of reinforcing the belief that the government is hiding something.

This is quite clever. It requires zero actual evidence that extraterrestrials exist and visit earth to convince people that they do. The government doesn't have to produce any evidence, it simply has to claim there is none in such a ludicrous manner that people assume there is evidence that's being hidden. Think of this as the government holding up a big empty sealed box. Inevitably, someone asks what is in the box. The government says, "Nothing. Nothing is in the box" and hides the box behind it's back. Someone inevitably says, "Then let me look in the box to confirm that nothing is in the box". The government says, "No." Everyone witnessing this except for a few gullible saps who believe the government and a few people who understand how black ops disinformation campaigns work becomes quite convinced that there is something in the box.

Of course, the logical question follows: why would the government do this? Why do they want people to believe that extraterrestrials exist, visit earth and abduct people? There are a number of possible answers. It provides a cover story for other things that are actually happening that the government doesn't want us to know about. Frightened people are more easy to manipulate than are people who are not frightened. Confused people are more easy to manipulate than people who are not confused. A new religion is being created and religion is an extremely effective tried and true method for controlling people. Some sort of mind control study (ala MKULTRA) is being conducted. Who knows?

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: debonkers

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: Thorneblood
a reply to: Tangerine

Where is testable evidence that a vast disinformation black ops campaign designed to brainwash the public into believing in the visitation of alien life forms in the manner you're suggesting has been in active operation for over 50 years?

And is that really the simplest explanation?

I stated it as opinion (ie. belief) not fact.

It would seem that when 70 years of devoted research has failed to produce an iota of testable evidence proving that extraterrestrials exist, visit earth and abduct people, looking for other explanations might be more productive than running into the wall over and over again. One of the things to consider is that the government has used various means to get people to believe the ETH for its own purposes. That does not mean that nothing is happening to people. It simply suggests that it might not be the result of ET.

Let's nip this farce in the bud right now.

The government has never done a single thing to encourage people to believe in alien contact.

Not once in the last seventy years.

Quite the contrary, they have expended enormous resources to convince the American public that alien contact is not happening.


So let's stick to reality a little bit. Or is that your much-vaunted "critical reasoning" at work?

On the contrary, the government has used a very effective set of techniques to get people to believe that extraterrestrials visit earth. They have made ludicrous claims to explain away UFO sightings. The ludicrous nature of the claims naturally leads the public to believe that they are lying. For example, virtually no one accepts the swamp gas explanation precisely because it's ludicrous. The mass delusion explanation is similarly ludicrous. Multiple independent witnesses in different locations mistaking Venus for a UFO moving across the sky and plunging into the woods is ludicrous.

The government is fully capable of providing far more credible explanations (whether or not they are lies) yet I believe they select ludicrous explanations for the express purpose of reinforcing the belief that the government is hiding something.

This is quite clever. It requires zero actual evidence that extraterrestrials exist and visit earth to convince people that they do. The government doesn't have to produce any evidence, it simply has to claim there is none in such a ludicrous manner that people assume there is evidence that's being hidden. Think of this as the government holding up a big empty sealed box. Inevitably, someone asks what is in the box. The government says, "Nothing. Nothing is in the box" and hides the box behind it's back. Someone inevitably says, "Then let me look in the box to confirm that nothing is in the box". The government says, "No." Everyone witnessing this except for a few gullible saps who believe the government and a few people who understand how black ops disinformation campaigns work becomes quite convinced that there is something in the box.

Of course, the logical question follows: why would the government do this? Why do they want people to believe that extraterrestrials exist, visit earth and abduct people? There are a number of possible answers. It provides a cover story for other things that are actually happening that the government doesn't want us to know about. Frightened people are more easy to manipulate than are people who are not frightened. Confused people are more easy to manipulate than people who are not confused. A new religion is being created and religion is an extremely effective tried and true method for controlling people. Some sort of mind control study (ala MKULTRA) is being conducted. Who knows?

Absurd. The government has never done anything to encourage the populace to believe in or accept the reality of alien contact.

Not once, in over seventy years.

And you have failed to cite one example.

Is that the best you can come up with, to claim that the seventy years of official denials just weren't creative enough?

The official explanations were not good enough? That is the totality of your evidence that the government has schemed all along to convince the public that alien contact is real?

Of course the official explanations weren't good enough, the only reasonable explanation for a lot of these cases is alien contact.

Furthermore, you seem to conveniently forget that all these government denials were IN RESPONSE to actual witness sightings and claims of alien contact and abduction, correct?

People believe in alien contact because millions of people have witnessed these ships and had direct contact with alien beings, not because the government told them to believe in aliens. Or as you claim, because the government told them NOT to believe in aliens. It is an argument without merit.

Let's take a closer look at what you're saying. In 1997, a large triangular ship one mile wide slowly passed over the state of Arizona and convinced many people that they were witnessing an alien ship. Now, according to you, the government did that to convince people of alien contact.

So why did the government hastily drop flares from helicopters in an effort to convince people that they had NOT witnessed an alien ship?

Your theory falls apart very quickly.

The fact remains that our government has gone to extreme lengths to cover up alien contact for seventy years. From project Bluebook, project Sign, project Grudge, to the Condon report, all of which existed for the sole purpose of denying and covering up cases of alien contact. This is well documented.

How seriously can we take your proposition that because the government has said NO for seventy years, they actually mean yes?

I hope you never make the same mistake on a date.

Like I said. a reply to: Tangerine

a reply to: [post=19020884]debonkers[/post

You have completely distorted what I said. But let's pretend you're right. Where is the testable evidence proving that extraterrestrials exist, have visited earth and abducted people. Cite it.

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: [post=19020884]debonkers[/post

You have completely distorted what I said. But let's pretend you're right. Where is the testable evidence proving that extraterrestrials exist, have visited earth and abducted people. Cite it.

There is plenty if evidence. There have been thousands upon thousands of people who have come forward as witnesses to UFO activity. Probably many more kept their sighting to themselves. Let's throw out several thousand as mistaken identity. Throw out a thousand liars....etc. There are still many, many credible witnesses left! What's more scientifically likely? That 100% of people are lying, hallucinating, or have poor vision??? Or, that out of thousands of cases, there are handfuls that defy explanation? All it takes is one. Mathematically, the odds are in favor of...not against.

Why can't the government be using this black ops technique while a phenomenon actually exists? If we are being visited by intelligently controlled craft from an unknown origin, then we might make up ludicrous claims on both ends of the spectrum.

A. Explaining UFO's by swamp gas, Venus, CIA spy plane etc...

B. Whistleblower making a extraordinary claim

Both result in the public having no idea what the actual phenomenon is, because the government doesn't know either.

Maybe Podesta was willing to share specific UFO sightings that remain unexplained as proof that extra terrestrials are visiting Earth.

The White House may only have the intelligence that we are being visited, and not be involved in direct communication with the ET.

However my actual opinion completely disagrees:

1. The UFO explanations usually are correct, so I don't know why they would be created by black ops. Show me a UFO sighting where the conclusion was Venus (example) but clearly it was a high speed UFO making 90* turns. Here on ATS we can explain almost all UFO sightings, are we black ops? No...simply logical explanations. No black ops.

2. Whistleblowers working for the government as a black ops agent? I mean what are the odds that a person could just naturally want to go into Ufology? Con and scam artists, entertainers, science fiction writers, or just someone who went a little crazy could just be our whistleblowers, and not secret government agents. Seems more likely that your average joe could end up whistleblowing, don't see why not?

3. If the Roswell UFO crash and alien recovery really happened, or any recovered UFO, or any ancient alien artifact, then the government might know some good details about ET and UFO's. However if the above is false and we are still visited, then the government's answer of we don't anything about UFO's except they pose no threat, would be true. So I don't know which one scenario above is correct.

a reply to: lambs to lions

What's more scientifically likely? That 100% of people are lying, hallucinating, or have poor vision???

It seems more likely that people don't understand more likely explanations. Poor vision?

originally posted by: Tangerine
a reply to: [post=19020884]debonkers[/post

You have completely distorted what I said. But let's pretend you're right. Where is the testable evidence proving that extraterrestrials exist, have visited earth and abducted people. Cite it.

Okay, you clearly have given this much thought, and I want to learn more about what you mean when you insist upon "testable evidence". It is clearly very important to you, you have requested "testable evidence" many, many times, in scores of posts, perhaps as many as one-hundred times, so let's have the discussion.

What exactly is the "testable evidence" you have requested so many times? Cite it. Please be very specific, and provide us with a list of examples of what you will accept as "testable evidence".

After you cite it, please indicate exactly what tests you would like it to be subjected to, using what instruments or equipment, and how these tests will establish the specific evidence you cite to be extraterrestrial in origin?

I'm especially interested in knowing what "testable evidence" you have in mind that will establish alien abductions, as you request.

And lastly, please tell us where and with what specific people or organizations you will arrange for the testing to be done? Will you need to provide funding, or will these people perform these tests without cost? And how do you know for certain that their findings will be legitimate and conclusive?

Take your time with this, please, I'm eager to learn. Thank you in advance for letting us know exactly what you mean when you say "testable evidence".

a reply to: debonkers

What exactly is the "testable evidence" you have requested so many times?

I believe its evidence that can be tested. If there was any, you wouldn't really need to ask.