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Why Arming Ukraine could be a dangerous escalation......

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posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 10:05 PM
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a reply to: JonStone
Conscripted troops, compulsory enrollment
not volunteers



edit on 24-2-2015 by all2human because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

They may have went public in favor of the United States (Who they work with often). If American weapons started appearing in Ukraine, US would most certainly be blamed for it. They could even be a proxy for the United States for all we know. UA President made it clear, he wants American weapons, especially our tank busters.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr
I say go ahead arm them, but be aware of these weapons may fall into the wrong hands (seems to be a trend in Ukraine) and turned against you.


edit on 24-2-2015 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 10:10 PM
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a reply to: all2human

I'm certain Russia knows our weapons well anyway. Plus, i'm not sure UAE has anything that america wouldn't want Ukraine to have as far as technology. I'm sure our best stuff is still locked away in a box somewhere. Besides, Russia is arming the rebels, it's only fair. I know Russia "Says" the rebels got their stockpile from stealing UA stuff, but I think we all know where their constant supply is really coming from.
edit on 24-2-2015 by JonStone because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 10:45 PM
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Rebels need to find the stockpiles or supply lines of these weapons and attack them, even if it takes sending covert ops to Kiev or Odessa or where ever these weapons are finding the land track.

This is a special project for Russia's FSB although an easy one because UA is badly infested with Kremlin's spies. Locating these weapons would not be a problem.

FSB blotched the Litvinko hit in London and conducted a "school boys" level of radioactive poisoning. Now is the time to wash out the joker's spill and prove one's slick ways.

A dose of hard spanking is over due on the poodles in Middle East. These bastard nations have been supplying weapons to Syrian rebels and causing a civil war killing nearly half million. Now these degenerates are nosing around in Russia's backyard. Time for poodles to get few crisp ones on the furry backside.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 11:01 PM
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They will probably fly into Kyiv and be distributed outside the war zone. Most these weapons if American will take training to use. US/UK will be training, and i'm sure UAE may train some too. Even if Russians stumbled on these weapons, I'm sure they'd rather use the weapons that they already have simply because they know how to use them and it's nothing that Russia hasn't already provided to them. If the argument is that it will arm the rebels that much more, well they are already getting more weapons from Russia that they know what to do with. If anything, the only benefit of stealing them would be to get them out of Ukraine's hands. But if the ukraine military is trained well enough, that is less likely to happen if using weapons equal or superior to what Russia is already providing the rebels with. These are not the soviet era weapons that Ukraine has now, these are weapons that can match up to what Russia is sending over (which is also giving the rebels the advantage at the moment), and weapons that can blow up a Russian tank. I doubt the rebels will go out of their way to find them, but they may commit an operation to say, the weapon in a certain region that keeps taking out their tanks. But that's no different than it is now, if your being shot at then you want to take out the weapon that's shooting at you...before it actually shoots you. This is why the Russians were so quick to send anti-aircraft weapons (I hoped that the shootdown of MH17 would have stopped this, but it didn't), because in the start, UA's military gave Kyiv a nice advantage. Also note, some American equipment can trackdown and pinpoint where these AA weapons are located, allowing them to start using their air force again.

In regards to the middle east, maybe some are going to the rebels, but the US has considered arming them against ISIS anyway. Besides, these weapons are probably doing less damage than the gas that assad used on his own people. Yes, American weapons should not have been left in the middle east, but they are there now. We might as well use them to our advantage. Personally I think any weapon we send over there should have a self-destruct, but they don't. I'm glad someone decided to arm ukraine, whether it be the US, UAE or both. If Russia isn't going to respond to diplomacy, I don't see there being any other choice but surrender...and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
edit on 24-2-2015 by JonStone because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 11:19 PM
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a reply to: victor7

Excellent maybe those boys can learn some better urban movents now.
With THOSE nutballs they'll HAVE to.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: JonStone

The Academi guys can use them...



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 11:55 PM
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a reply to: JonStone




these are weapons that can match up to what Russia is sending over (which is also giving the rebels the advantage at the moment)


Russia is not sending rebels anything even late 1990s. The only modern goody that was rumored was Pantsirs anti-aircraft point defense and that too in the peak of Debaltsevo battle when regular Russian troops crossed over to help. Russia's main say is rebels are stealing or capturing UA's arms and thus Kremlin cannot send them ultra advanced goodies like T-90s or Sniper rifles used by Spetsnaz elements etc. Some counter artillery radars have been spotted among the rebels though.

The main advantage to rebels is the low morale of the UA plus information from spies regarding Ukes moves and this is why encirclements are happening easily. Another advantage they have is the "suicidal illogics" of UA General staff. Debaltsevo was important infact very important but UA's when nearing the encirclement like 90% trapped, should have been withdrawn with men and machines. Idiots withdrew only when trap was fully closed, artillery inside the cauldron majorly busted and moving heavies like tanks and APCs was extremely difficult. That is why rebels got several dozens of tanks intact plus higher numbers of APCs and 100s of tonnes ammo crates.

On the otherhand, rebels took 2-3 days off after entrapping the UA to build reinforcements and only then conducted the final assault. During this time UA conducted several attack mission from nearby cities but failed to unlock the encriclement. Even kids playing board military games would fare better than hard nosed Kiev Junta Generals. Sad for the common soldiers.

Also, much is spoken about volunteer battalions but the reality is these are not willing soldiers but unemployeds who are looking for incomes. These VBs are not armed with heavy machines like tanks or artillery etc. So at best they are upgraded security guards with permission to shoot and kill.

Finally, Russia will surely match up any modern equipment supplied by ME poodles and might as well launch a full scale invasion and take Kiev quickly.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:22 AM
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originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: JonStone




these are weapons that can match up to what Russia is sending over (which is also giving the rebels the advantage at the moment)


Russia is not sending rebels anything even late 1990s. The only modern goody that was rumored was Pantsirs anti-aircraft point defense and that too in the peak of Debaltsevo battle when regular Russian troops crossed over to help. Russia's main say is rebels are stealing or capturing UA's arms and thus Kremlin cannot send them ultra advanced goodies like T-90s or Sniper rifles used by Spetsnaz elements etc. Some counter artillery radars have been spotted among the rebels though.

The main advantage to rebels is the low morale of the UA plus information from spies regarding Ukes moves and this is why encirclements are happening easily. Another advantage they have is the "suicidal illogics" of UA General staff. Debaltsevo was important infact very important but UA's when nearing the encirclement like 90% trapped, should have been withdrawn with men and machines. Idiots withdrew only when trap was fully closed, artillery inside the cauldron majorly busted and moving heavies like tanks and APCs was extremely difficult. That is why rebels got several dozens of tanks intact plus higher numbers of APCs and 100s of tonnes ammo crates.

On the otherhand, rebels took 2-3 days off after entrapping the UA to build reinforcements and only then conducted the final assault. During this time UA conducted several attack mission from nearby cities but failed to unlock the encriclement. Even kids playing board military games would fare better than hard nosed Kiev Junta Generals. Sad for the common soldiers.

Also, much is spoken about volunteer battalions but the reality is these are not willing soldiers but unemployeds who are looking for incomes. These VBs are not armed with heavy machines like tanks or artillery etc. So at best they are upgraded security guards with permission to shoot and kill.

Finally, Russia will surely match up any modern equipment supplied by ME poodles and might as well launch a full scale invasion and take Kiev quickly.


Wrong Russian fighting in Ukraine brought with them alot of equipment that was used in current Russian military all the way to there latest battle tanks. One of the reasons people want to see how well they do against antI tank rockets. I'll bet we see Poland and maybe even some Israeli anti tank rockets show if first. I know the Israelis will be dying t o see how well the spike works for example. I have a feeling Russian armor has a surprise coming.

But the UAE will be able to aquire them I'm sure. With the right weapons the Ukrainians may not be able to win if Putin goes all in. But they can make Russia stay in Afghanistan look like a picnic. Afghans couldn't get access to anything to hassle Russian armor.I'm thinking the only way out of this foe Ukraine is they will have to make the Russian casualties so high they decide the cost isn't worth it.

Problem is with Putin o have a feeling that can't happen he's seems to be all in even if it costs Russia Everything. I think Ukraine is wrong here Putin will keep sending Russians to die.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:23 AM
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Looks like Russian propaganda is already trying to counter using events over a year old tass.ru...

I also agree with dragonridr, Russia has been sending some pretty modern equipment. I would like to hope Russia will see the costs, but i'm afraid putin himself will not. He'll keep sending Russians to die, but maybe at some point, the Russian people will see this and speak up...but I wouldn't bet on it. It may end up being a test, the world's chance to see how western weapons affect Russia's latest technology.
edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: Typo



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:27 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

With Nazis and their hateful agenda on the loose.........forget about Israelis sending even a lollipop for the killed Azov battalion soldiers little kids.

Ukraine won't be Afghanistan as general people want to go on with their lives. They do not want to fight but Junta is forcing them too. General Ukes are not fanatic mujahedeens whom Soviets killed like 2 million and they kept on fighting.

Once Putin's Governor is sipping his coffee in Kiev, things will calm down and people will be happy that war ended.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:37 AM
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originally posted by: JonStone
Looks like Russian propaganda is already trying to counter using events over a year old tass.ru...


Wow recycling old news Russia worried apparently. They figure they needed something that shown what poreshenko did wasn't a big deal look we have one to. Guess it will make the Russians feel better but the Russian commanders know better. If I was them be worried about my armor.Every weapons manufacturer will want a go at the T72B.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:42 AM
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a reply to: victor7

These are not "Nazis", who told you that nonsense? These are people simply trying to protect their freedom. The entire Nazi/Junta thing is nothing more than russian propaganda, the term Junta was a clear hint of that. REAL Nazi's haven't been around since WW2. I've had this argument with countless people in Russia, and it's funny that I only hear the mention of Nazi's from russians or territories that are influenced by russia. It's a lie.

Who do you expect us to believe? Ukraine, who is generally such a peaceful society that they didn't even see the need to keep their military up to date, or Russia who is making real threats and telling its people to prepare for a nuclear war? I stand by Ukraine.

Wiki US-UAE relations and then wiki Russia-UAE relations which hardly exist.
edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:45 AM
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originally posted by: Elton
The article's reason for not arming them is fear of Putin using nukes.

I can not imagine that he would nuke the Ukraine, internationally I would think that would give everyone a Casus Belli against Russia.


Technically the Ukraine is already a nuclear wasteland. 52% of Ukraine's electricity for the entire country comes from nuclear power. They are a poor country. They don't properly dispose of the waste from all their nuclear power plants, because they can't afford proper disposal. 52% of the country is powered by nuclear power.

If I were Russia, I'd be more concerned about shooting down a plane full of stealth virus scientists and experts. HIV is a stealth virus, you know, that stealths itself hidden in human cells. When the Russian rebels shot down that plane, and didn't give those stealth virus experts their proper burials.... it adds a whole new dynamic.... biowarfare.

Hmmmm.. Family, friends and collegues of stealth virus experts furious about the desecration and decomposition of bodies left to rot in the UKraine after Russians shot down the plane... And if any seek revenge.... Hmmmm stealth viruses undetected in a nuclear wasteland...


Why is everyone worried about guns?
edit on 25-2-2015 by MapMistress because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:45 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

I hear the Javilin will take out that tank. You're right though about the T72B, something found in Ukraine that the rebels couldn't have possibly stolen from the UA military. This tank is Russian, plain and simple...yet Putin keeps denying any assistance to the rebels in Ukraine. I'd hardly call them rebels at this point, they're Russians.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:56 AM
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a reply to: JonStone
FYI There are millions of Russian's who live in Ukraine"s east and south (20% of Ukraine)who have ukraine citizenship
the difference between Afghanistan and Ukraine is religion and ethnicity
Yugoslavia civil war would best fit the current conflict in Ukraine.


edit on 25-2-2015 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:58 AM
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a reply to: JonStone

With "volunteer" battalions on Ukrainian side which or nothing more as NATO mercenaries, why not ?

There were already American weapons at the Ukrainians...

Ukrainegate: NATO weapons for truce



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 12:59 AM
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Funny that i never heard of it before now. I guess it wasn't worth mentioning from Russia until UAE decided to start arming Ukraine. Furthermore, UAE is far closer tied to the US than Russia, and the US probably put the idea of a transport Hub on hold pending to see how US/Cuba relations work out. Now like Cuba is a huge nation, how many international airports do they need? Not to mention, last time Russia had any interests in Cuba, it was only to place nuclear missiles closer to the united states, which didn't work out so well for the Russians according to history. This is just a Russian smokescreen to take attention away from the fact that someone in the world might be willing to arm those "Nazi's" in ukraine. Propagranda.



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