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Why Arming Ukraine could be a dangerous escalation......

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posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:00 AM
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a reply to: all2human

Well, apparently they'd rather be Ukraine. If not, well, the Russian border is only a few miles away. Most of these "Russian" refugees headed west in Ukraine, not East towards russia. I wonder why.
edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: Add on




posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:05 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Prove they are mercanaries, and prove that the US is already arming Ukraine? Better yet, Prove that Russia is not already arming the rebels. Welcome to the big game of he said she said. If Russia can deny this, then so can the United States.
edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: update

edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:12 AM
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originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: JonStone
FYI There are millions of Russian's who live in Ukraine"s east and south (20% of Ukraine)who have ukraine citizenship
the difference between Afghanistan and Ukraine is religion and ethnicity
Yugoslavia civil war would best fit the current conflict in Ukraine.



Different than yugoslavia this is an outside force instigating a conflict. Same tactic used by US SR in afganistan. What's scarry this time is proximity. Ukraine wad way to close to turn this into a long drawn out battle for one the Russian economy can't handle it. Right now there sending weapons paying rebel fighters. See Putin was trying to keep it low key and inexpensive. But now he realizing it's going to get costly. That is Ukraines strategy make it so costly for Russians they leave. See Ukraine is a lose in this no matter the outcome. If they chase the Russians out eastern Ukraine is gone. Even the major cities are rubble.

So Ukraine will spend money they don't have trying to repair the damage will take years. If Russia wins Ukraine lost access to the resources it needs. At this point Ukraines motivation is more nationalistic not willing to lose Ukrainian territory.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:15 AM
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originally posted by: JonStone
a reply to: victor7

These are not "Nazis", who told you that nonsense? These are people simply trying to protect their freedom. The entire Nazi/Junta thing is nothing more than russian propaganda, the term Junta was a clear hint of that. REAL Nazi's haven't been around since WW2. I've had this argument with countless people in Russia, and it's funny that I only hear the mention of Nazi's from russians or territories that are influenced by russia. It's a lie.

Who do you expect us to believe? Ukraine, who is generally such a peaceful society that they didn't even see the need to keep their military up to date, or Russia who is making real threats and telling its people to prepare for a nuclear war? I stand by Ukraine.

Wiki US-UAE relations and then wiki Russia-UAE relations which hardly exist.


Hey There,

I am NOT going to come down to denying the blatant truth out there. Russians are sending men and machines all along, without that help rebels won't last more than two weeks. HOWEVER!!!!!!! There are lots of Nazi elements within Ukraine and lots more in their VBs like Azov, Aidar and others. No need to split hairs here........that's childish!!

I have repeated this many times before on ATS on various threads..........Russia WILL NOT back down on Ukraine.......to the point of fighting a WW3 and repeatedly using MASSIVE amounts of WMDs.

Now go and calm the mind for 5 minutes and only after that........................decide if West wants to fight a WW3 or go about minding its own business in its own backyard. Thanks You!



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:28 AM
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a reply to: JonStone

NAF thanks the United States for the new LCMR (Lightweight Counter-Mortar Radar)

1:36 minutes

here

38:19 minutes

15:45 minutes

But of course they are all just volunteer Nazis.

edit on 25 2 2015 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:29 AM
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I'm sure nothing would please Putin more than the west standing down. But you see, we learn from our mistakes. We could have prevented WW2, but didn't because we "minded our own business". If putin is willing to go to WW3 over this, then he is an idiot. He'll suffer as much if not more than America, which may be okay with him since Putin doesn't really care about his own people. If there are "Nazi" elements in Ukraine, other than trying to fend for their own, then please point them out. Nazi's tried to take over other nation's territory, including Russia, what territory so far has ukraine tried to take over other than the territory granted to them as their own by the Budapest Agreement? As far as WMD's, had Russia agreed to NOT invade ukraine in exchange for Ukraine's nuclear weapons, which would mean Ukraine still had nuclear weapons, then this invasion would not be taking place. Russia violated this agreement agreed on by Russia, the UK and US, and THIS is what makes this the business of the United States.

I'm sure Putin loves to threaten the US with WW3, but that's only because that is the only thing that the US can be threatened with since Russia's conventional miltitary wouldn't stand a chance. Question is, does Putin want WW3? We've played this game before, back during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and last I checked, the US won against Russia's bluff. Now you basically say don't call Russia's bluff? Well, maybe Russia shouldn't call ours.
edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: Missed something.

edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: Typo



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:31 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And soon Iranians will thank the UAE for making it easy to get the Russian S-300 air defense systems. Kremlin had blocked this sale to Tehran before but will not any longer.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:35 AM
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a reply to: JonStone



If there are "Nazi" elements in Ukraine, other than trying to fend for their own, then please point them out.


This is the Prime Minister of the Ukraine saying hello...




posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:36 AM
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a reply to: victor7

The Kremlin didn't block the sale, the US did. Only more proof that the Kremlin will stand down at a point. Obviously, the US could care less. This type of thing was expected. Besides, the russians did this before the news about UAE came out.
edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: Update



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

For God sakes, he's just raising his hand to say hello! Could be calling a taxi for all I know, done all the time in New York. Wow, the Kremlin is desperate.
edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: Add on



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:39 AM
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originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

And soon Iranians will thank the UAE for making it easy to get the Russian S-300 air defense systems. Kremlin had blocked this sale to Tehran before but will not any longer.


Indeed, they will now get a state of the art S-300 system, even better as what they were able to buy earlier.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:40 AM
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a reply to: JonStone




We've played this game before, back during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and last I checked, the US won against Russia's bluff. Now you basically say don't call Russia's bluff? Well, maybe Russia shouldn't call ours.


Missile gap during Cuban crisis was much in favor of the US. Also, Krushchev was not a strong leader either. He was Ukranian. Furthermore, Russia was not threatened in a massive Strategic manner that time than today where Ukraine in NATO will make Moscow indefensible. It was Russia on the offensive in many a sense by placing missiles in Cuba.

My fear is that this time around the party will start with WMDs first and only then conventional staying power will be tested.

Putin is clever enough to use America's grand enemy against them........i.e. Islamic Powers. He is working on it and when the guns go noisy then even the best of US allies will be happy to switch sides. Also, do not count of major European powers like France and Germany to side with you. In any event, Europe will be destroyed way beyond the repair.............and all for what? the Yanks?? Don't think so!!



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:41 AM
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originally posted by: JonStone
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

For God sakes, he's just raising his hand to say hello! Could be calling a taxi for all I know, done all the time in New York. Wow, the Kremlin is desperate.


Good luck with trying to get a cab doing that in NY.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:42 AM
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Well, like Russia likes to say about Russia arming the rebels, there is no evidence that the United States is arming the Ukraine Military. Welcome to the game that superpowers play.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: JonStone

Well apparently the US did care when ethnic cleansing was occurring in Yogoslavia, against it's Albanian minoritywww.youtube.com...
and the Albanian border is only a few miles away.
en.wikipedia.org...
strange indeed.
edit on 25-2-2015 by all2human because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Sometimes it's the only way. Us Americans don't fear nonexistant Nazi's like some Russians might.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:44 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: JonStone
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

For God sakes, he's just raising his hand to say hello! Could be calling a taxi for all I know, done all the time in New York. Wow, the Kremlin is desperate.


Good luck with trying to get a cab doing that in NY.

LOL LOL LOL !!!!!!!!

Given that so many Jews and Blacks live in NY, that raised hand will be forced to find its way up its owners own "ASSSSSS" before it can even come down.



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 01:48 AM
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I see a comment like that, and then have to scratch my head when the Kremlin says that the Americans are racists against blacks and jews. Last I checked, there are actually a few jews working in Kyiv. Wow, those "Nazi's" must have had a change of heart. They hire Jews now! Putin is only claiming that Kyiv are Nazi because only the Nazi's came close to whooping Russia's butt. Nothing like fear to gain public support for a dictator like Putin. I keep an open mind, and have even questioned if my country is right on our stance in Ukraine. But after looking at the facts, It's clear, Russia is in the wrong on this one. Someone is going to arm Ukraine, whether it be the US, UAE or someone else, but either way, this will become a fair fight. I'm sorry if some Russians have a problem with that.


edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: Further thoughts

edit on 25-2-2015 by JonStone because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 02:07 AM
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you are #ing insane a reply to: biggilo



posted on Feb, 25 2015 @ 03:06 AM
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originally posted by: JonStone
I see a comment like that, and then have to scratch my head when the Kremlin says that the Americans are racists against blacks and jews. Last I checked, there are actually a few jews working in Kyiv. Wow, those "Nazi's" must have had a change of heart. They hire Jews now!


Ahem. Jews used to be 33% of Kyiv's population. And 1/3 of all government seats in Kyiv used to be held by Jews. Jon Stone, you are in serious need of a short history lesson on Jews in the Ukraine.

European Jews are called Ashkenazi based on a story of origin. They are said to be from "Ashkenaz", the first son of Gomer, Genesis 10. Gomer is identified with the Cimmerians. According to Herodotus, the Cimmerians inhabited the north shore of the Black Sea WHICH IS the sunken southern Ukraine coast and southern Crimean coast. Therefore, before migrating along the Dnieper and Danube into Poland and Germany, Ashkenazis went through Ukraine to get there.

In Antiquity both the Greeks and Romans historically noted that Jews were living in Crimea and the Ukraine. They were described as "red headed" Jews of Levantine origin, some with blue eyes.

But the region had a long history of wars and thousands moved west into Poland and east into Russia. So in the 1800s, the Russians created what is known as "The Pale". Jews were deported from Russia by the tens of thousands back into the Ukraine, where they came from.

By the early 1900s, cities like Kiev had a Jewish population of 33% of the cities population. They were hardly a minority.

The other ethnic groups of the Ukraine sought to get rid of them, even though Jews had lived in the region for thousands of years. In WWII, some of the ethnic groups in the Ukraine sided with the Nazis to exterminate the Jews. In Ukrainian cities where the Russian military took control, the Russians stripped the Jews of the possessions. The Russians behaved like Nazis themselves while pointing the finger at German and Ukrainian Nazis. Even post WWII, what few Jews survived the holocaust in the Ukraine, under Stalin, they were sent to Siberia. Stalin's regime repearedly accused Ukrainian and Crimean Jews of "collaborating" with Americans. They were exterminated post-WWII by communists.

Yes, there are most definitely still Nazis in the Ukraine. Russians do the same thing to Jews that Nazis do. Some of the Ukrainian Nazis still identify with Hitler. For example, in Lviv 2013, two cops arrested a Jewish man, the cops urinated on him, and the cops threatened the Jewish man that they would do to him what Hitler did. (source: Jewish Virtual Library: Ukraine)

So John, please brush up on 2000 plus years of history of Jews in the Ukraine before making snide Nazi jokes. It's not a joking matter.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...
Jews in Crimea: Antiquity to Present

mapmistress.blog.com...
Lost Cities in East Crimea

www.berdicher.org...
History of the Jews in the Ukraine

www.virtuallibrary.org...
Ukraine Jewish History
(Gives historical references, specifics city by city in the Ukraine)



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