Why Arming Ukraine could be a dangerous escalation......

a reply to: JonStone

I personally think that we should arm Ukraine to the teeth, but I say that about any nation being attacked by a big bully.

Russians did not arm the Iraqis when the Big Bully US attacked them in 2003.

However, Russian can arm several factions and nations now which will make US policy makers curse the day they even thought of arming Ukraine. Ex: Russia giving a dozen Topol ICBMs to North Korea and Iran.

A major part of US security both internal and external depends on the man sitting in the top office in Kremlin.

a reply to: victor7

So Russia is not arming the Rebels in Ukraine that THEY created? They are not being bullies against a Ukrainian government that is far smaller than Russia, for no other reason than to steal territory? Russia did not cut off the gas to Ukraine even though millions of people may freeze? Sure, the bill needed to be paid (Which was 10 times the original amount owed), but this is the government's doing in Putin's eyes, why let the other people freeze. He didn't cut that gas off because of a past due bill, Ukraine has owed Russia money for years up until the President was ousted. He cut it off to be cruel. If I owe a bill, I get annoying phone calls, but if a person ows Russia money, they get tanks at their front door. Reminds me of Stalin actually.

If Russia wasn't arming those rebels, then this war in ukraine would have been over before it started, and there would be no need to arm the Ukraine government. Russia has a long history of arming other nations, as well as invading them directly when it suited their interests. Sure, US invaded Iraq, and then the US left. Russia's history of invasions, they invade but they never leave because it's a land grab.

The way I see it that in arming Ukraine, we're simply evening the odds some. If Putin wants to throw a tantrum just because we may help even up the odds, then he'll be the one instigating WW3, just like he's doing right now. This cannot be denied, Putin has threatened WW3 whenever it looked as though he wasn't getting his way. "Nuclear war" is all over Russian media, but hardly talked about in US Media. As for Iraq, I'm sure Russia opposed it since it had oil interests in Iraq and Iraq owed Russia over 8 Billion dollars, and it's clear Russia takes debt seriously. Russia was probably just mad that the US beat them to it. As for providing weapons of mass distruction to Iran or North Korea, Russia would only be cutting it's own throat. Putin is a cheapskate, and the only reason he hasn't openly invaded is because he's trying to save a dollar.

a reply to: JonStone

the only reason he hasn't openly invaded is because he's trying to save a dollar.

All your writings before this were very dull and discussed ad nauseum here.

From this point I'm interested to hear on

I've actually been inactive on these boards for some time, following world events in other places. This seemed to become quite a Russian Trolling site in recent days, which gave me the oppertunity to do my patriotic duty.

It looks as though ATS did some work to minimize the ads since then. Adblock helps a little too

Maybe i'll change my name to TrollBuster. Still, I've followed the Ukraine Crisis since the start. It's a subject that I keep up with well. Ashame that the mainstream reports on it are so limited. So I hop on IRC, and talk to Ukrainians, and some Russians. I learn a lot more there than I ever did from mainstream media.

a reply to: JonStone

US invaded Iraq, and then the US left. Russia's history of invasions, they invade but they never leave because it's a land grab.

You did not answer correctly............US invaded Iraq and Russia could have made the life HELL for US more than it actually became..........as if 5,000 KIA is not enough. It could have been 25,000 KIA easily and US might not have been able to leave uptill now or next few decades.

Russia under communists was a different entity when it comes to foreign policies. After 1991, Russia did not act the same way until.........Georgia 2008 and Ukraine 2014........when its strategic interests were badly threatened.

Putin is not bluffing..................he will give you nuclear war at the right time.

Take your left over chips in the game and go home.............from Europe.

a reply to: victor7

You did not answer correctly............US invaded Iraq and Russia could have made the life HELL for US more than it actually became..........as if 5,000 KIA is not enough. It could have been 25,000 KIA easily and US might not have been able to leave uptill now or next few decades.

Are you kidding? Russia opposing the US every chance that it gets at the UN, even if it AGREES with the US! But you have to keep in mind, the first Iraq war took place before Putin was calling the shots. Heads were a lot cooler in Russia back in those days. Even if Russia DID get involved and it lasted up until now or the next few years, my point is that, it WOULD end. We take care of our business and then we leave, which at the time was Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. Russia takes care of it's business and then opens a Vodka shop. The US does not like land grabs, Putin seems to count on them.

I did not answer correctly? This isn't the game show jeopardy where you provide the answer first and questions later! Your response had nothing to do with any previous question that was asked. You said nothing about Russia increasing the stakes in Iraq back in the day. As for the second Iraq war, I'll be honest, I didn't agree with it. Our president was an idiot back then, not that our current one is all that great either. But the difference between me and Russians, is that I live in a country where I can openly say this without fear of any consequences.

a reply to: JonStone

But the difference between me and Russians, is that I live in a country where I can openly say this without fear of any consequences.

Russian population is half of the US but its economy is roughly 1/8th. Hence you can figure out if people in Russia give a squat about freedom of expression vrs secured 3 meals and a warm place to live in...........cable television and unlimited internet would be a welcome bonus for those who can afford it. In US, these variables are taken for granted. Standards of living have vast difference as one can easily see.

pssssst: freedom of expression is not that free in the US either.........think hard and figure it out yourself.

a reply to: victor7

Russian population is half of the US but its economy is roughly 1/8th. Hence you can figure out if people in Russia give a squat about freedom of expression vrs secured 3 meals and a warm place to live in...........cable television and unlimited internet would be a welcome bonus for those who can afford it. In US, these variables are taken for granted. Standards of living have vast difference as one can easily see.

pssssst: freedom of expression is not that free in the US either.........think hard and figure it out yourself.

Russia does have lack of population problems, probably why they are so against gays (Except the russian gays), they want babies. Not everyone in America has it easy, in fact most don't. I grew up in a ghetto with nothing, sometimes one meal a day, but usually if you work for it, you'll have a better life than some others. You obviously have unlimited internet because you've been trolling this forum for a couple days now.

Freedom of expession in the US depends on where you live, some places are more tolorant of certain things than others, but it's usually a society thing, not a government controlled thing like it is in Russia from what I hear. In other words (while "thinking hard about it"), if you live in an area where something is abnormal compared to everyone else, society may look down on it, but you won't be arrested for it. Still I have to say this is more rare than it used to be as most lifestyles eventually are accepted at some point. Most if not all societies are like this when they are in a constant state of evolution. Most Americans may have a better lifestyle than many other countries, but it's because Americans worked for it and just didn't wait around for the Government to make it happen. America didn't get it's place by all of us sitting around smoking cigaretts and drinking Vodka.

On the Russian economy, it was probably much better than it is now before Putin stole crimea and invaded Ukraine. These are called "Consequences" for doing something bad. Most American children learn this very early in life.

"Psssst": The economy will get much better if Putin would leave Ukraine alone. Who knows, most Russians might even get Cable TV!

a reply to: JonStone

if Putin would leave Ukraine alone

that's not happening, leave Putin alone or he will take your economy down with others around the globe.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: JonStone

if Putin would leave Ukraine alone

that's not happening, leave Putin alone or he will take your economy down with others around the globe.

Putin has become an insignificant force in the global market. With his destruction of the Russian economy he's quickly becoming north korea. All he can do is jump up and down and threaten to nuke People. Milt a rule and economically Russia is done Putin is seeing to that suspect he works for someone because I don't think he's this stupid. Everything Putin didn't want he's causing to happen maybe he works for the CIA now. He made NATO important again he's alienated Russia from mostrich of the world unless you can't 3rd world dictators. He's removed the threat the Russia stranglehold on supplying gas to EU as they all rushed out securing other contracts. And even the US is going to be able to supply gas to Europe Rusia had that market locked up for decades. He's turned his neighbors against him to the point there sending weopons to Ukraine . If the west were trying to destroy Russia they don't have to bother Putins got that covered.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: JonStone

if Putin would leave Ukraine alone

that's not happening, leave Putin alone or he will take your economy down with others around the globe.

Kind of hard to take down the global market when you're no longer part of the global market. Face it, Your hero Putin has failed both you and Russia. Everytime he makes a threat against America, our energy, steel, copper, technology and weapons industries thrive. If he were my president, and I were you, then i'd fire him....assuming that you still have that choice.

a reply to: dragonridr

Exactly. It's almost as if everything Putin has done, he's done in favor to the West. Starting to act more like a friend to the West than he is to the Russian people. How Ironic. If I didn't know better, than I'd think Putin was actually a CIA operative working for the West. Good job Putin! You can come home now. Mission accomplished!

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: MapMistress

I'm going to assume English is a second language for you because the encyclopedia you wrote has nothing to do with what he said.

Oh please. Is that your attempt at a put down? I'm 100% born American. English was my first language.

Perhaps you were referring to your own reading skills, because had you bothered to click on the links provided, and READ, then I wouldn't have to repeat myself.

Rehash....
John and others were debating whether true Nazis exist in the Ukraine, while making snide jokes about it, pertaining to "a few Jews" being hired in one city. And no one bothered to check Jewish resources on the situation with Nazis in the Ukraine. Seems to me if anyone is to be ascertaining the situation with Jews, Nazis, Ukrainians, and Russians, that one must check with Jewish resources to have accurate data.

From that encyclopedia...

In October 2013, Lviv's Prosecutor's Office opened a criminal investigation of two police detectives believed to have beaten and humiliated a Jewish man while trying to extort money from him. The man, 29-year-old businessman Dmitry Flekman, was arrested by the officers and held in an interrogation room for nine hours. The officers purportedly urinated on Flekman and fractured his tailbone with blows to the back. They also forced him to sit on the floor, explaining the chair "was not for stinking Jews," and one of them said "he'd do what Hitler did."

SOURCE: Encyclopedia Judaica - Ukraine
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Sounds like real Ukrainian Nazis to me. And the source is not Russian at all, but the global Jewish community.

a reply to: MapMistress

The Nazi's invaded other nations for a land grab. The only land grabbing that I see is from Putin, not Ukraine. It's pretty simple.

a reply to: victor7

NO they armed them and trained them when I helped kick their butts in 1991,MUCH to the dismay of the VAUNTED Russian intelligence forces who said we would be killed as the first group to arrive AND our own think tanks by the way.
give a loudmoth a megaphone and they will be an irritation,give them a weapon and they will be targeted.

Here is the problem with sending lethal aid to Ukraine: It is Putin and Russia.

If the USA were to send lethal aid to Ukraine, the problem is that the moment that Russia got wind of such, it would turn out to be a total disaster and quickly escalate. Russia is right next to Ukraine and has already moved into Crimea. They have military assets preset and siting either on the boarder or very close, where such could be moved in with say an hour. And Putin has been showing that he has no qualms about laying down and moving forward.

Better to seek a nonviolent way to resolve this conflict, than escalate it up more. Russia, would like nothing more than to reclaim the Ukraine as a part of its territory and is willing to fight for it. And as things have been showing, the other countries involved are not willing so much.