'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: Annee
This was a transgender teen who wanted to start medical treatment to stop the affects of Testosterone.

He did make his choices. He was denied the right of those choices by his religious parents.

He knew what he needed to be happy. It was denied.

As he said, by age 18 it would be too late. The Testosterone would have already changed his appearance.

He didn't need medical treatment to stop the affects of testosterone to be happy.

He believed he did.

Big difference. His choice in what he believed is what caused him to kill himself, not the facts of the situation.

There are billions of people who would like to look different than they do, and they don't kill themselves.

Why?

You have no idea what you're talking about. You have no idea what this person was going through, what they needed, how they felt in the days and months leading up to their tragic suicide.

Being born MALE and feeling, intrinsically with every fiber of their being they are a FEMALE, isn't a CHOICE.

NO ONE would CHOOSE that and comparing what this KID was going through and people killing themselves because of how they LOOK ON THE OUTSIDE is ignorant. Period.

You know what needs to be fixed, in our society? THE DOUBLE STANDARDS. The HYPOCRISIES. It's ok for this, but not ok for that. He was born MALE, but..... So, i'm supposed to call him a her? I'm supposed to support that person's delusions or confusions???

Then, you want me to feel sorry for them, when they "just can't take it anymore"?

I got FLAMED on facebook, regarding this very topic. The only tragedy i see, is a person who was too weak to continue on, in our jungle. I grew up in a not-so-nice time. I was bullied and called names, on a daily basis. I was constantly getting suspended from school, for fighting those bullies. And, you know what? Through all of that, i made it. So, to feel sorry for someone that was weak, is weak! I feel sorry that HE wasn't strong enough to survive the BS, like the rest of us.

Oh, and the message of ending your life, when the going gets tough, isn't a message i want to promote!!!

what is really going on here?
www.befrienders.org...

In the last 45 years suicide rates have increased by 60% worldwide. Suicide is now among the three leading causes of death among those aged 15-44 (male and female). Suicide attempts are up to 20 times more frequent than completed suicides. Although suicide rates have traditionally been highest amongst elderly males, rates among young people have been increasing to such an extent that they are now the group at highest risk in a third of all countries. Mental health disorders (particularly depression and substance abuse) are associated with more than 90% of all cases of suicide. However, suicide results from many complex sociocultural factors and is more likely to occur during periods of socioeconomic, family and individual crisis (e.g. loss of a loved one, unemployment, sexual orientation, difficulties with developing one's identity, disassociation from one's community or other social/belief group, and honour). The WHO also states that: In Europe, particularly Eastern Europe, the highest suicide rates are reported for both men and women. The Eastern Mediterranean Region and Central Asia republics have the lowest suicide rates. Nearly 30% of all suicides worldwide occur in India and China. Suicides globally by age are as follows: 55% are aged between 15 to 44 years and 45% are aged 45 years and over. Youth suicide is increasing at the greatest rate. In the US, the Centre of Disease Control and Prevention reports that: Overall, suicide is the eleventh leading cause of death for all US Americans, and is the third leading cause of death for young people 15-24 years. Although suicide is a serious problem among the young and adults, death rates continue to be highest among older adults ages 65 years and over. Males are four times more likely to die from suicide than are females. However, females are more likely to attempt suicide than are males.

originally posted by: Jamie1
You're confusing correlation with causation, and you're initial assumption is incorrect because it does not account for beliefs, values, and conditioning across all demographics.

Many behavioral psychologists and criminologists would disagree. If what you're saying is true we can probably just stop studying most psychology fields immediately. If you have some books or references you can U2U me, please do. Not being disrespectful, I've just honestly never seen this argument presented at an academic level at such an extreme level. On a side note, it seems you're including conditioning which (I think I've misunderstood) also sounds like what you're denying when you say 'choice'?

And therapy? What could therapy possibly change if not a person's beliefs? Therapy doesn't change past events that happened to a person.

Then you're agreeing that therapy is a factor which is something outside of the persons control which could have given them further options?

originally posted by: lovebeck

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: Annee
This was a transgender teen who wanted to start medical treatment to stop the affects of Testosterone.

He did make his choices. He was denied the right of those choices by his religious parents.

He knew what he needed to be happy. It was denied.

As he said, by age 18 it would be too late. The Testosterone would have already changed his appearance.

He didn't need medical treatment to stop the affects of testosterone to be happy.

He believed he did.

Big difference. His choice in what he believed is what caused him to kill himself, not the facts of the situation.

There are billions of people who would like to look different than they do, and they don't kill themselves.

Why?

You have no idea what you're talking about. You have no idea what this person was going through, what they needed, how they felt in the days and months leading up to their tragic suicide.

Being born MALE and feeling, intrinsically with every fiber of their being they are a FEMALE, isn't a CHOICE.

NO ONE would CHOOSE that and comparing what this KID was going through and people killing themselves because of how they LOOK ON THE OUTSIDE is ignorant. Period.

You have no idea what he was going through either. That's the point. Any conjecture and speculation is just that - our own beliefs.

What I know with 100% certainty is that other than the truck plowing into him, it wasn't an external circumstance that killed him. It was his beliefs about his external circumstances.

Read his suicide note:

"The life I would've lived isn't worth living in… because I'm transgender. I could go into detail explaining why I feel that way, but this note is probably going to be lengthy enough as it is. To put it simply, I feel like a girl trapped in a boy's body, and I've felt that way ever since I was 4,"

"After 10 years of confusion I finally understood who I was. I immediately told my mom, and she reacted extremely negatively, telling me that it was a phase, that I would never truly be a girl, that God doesn't make mistakes, that I am wrong."

"The only way I will rest in peace is if one day transgender people aren't treated the way I was. They're treated like humans, with valid feelings and human rights. Gender needs to be taught about in schools, the earlier the better. My death needs to mean something.

My death needs to be counted in the number of transgender people who commit suicide this year," she wrote. "I want someone to look at that number and say 'that's f---ed up' and fix it. Fix society. Please.""

He states clearly his belief. He believed his life wasn't worth living because he was transgender. That's his belief, not a fact.

He continues to describe his belief that the only way he can rest in peace (be happy) is when transgender people aren't treated how he was treated. Again, that's his belief. It was his decision and choice to believe this.

He believed his death needed to mean something. Again, that's his own belief.

His more from his note:

"Either I live the rest of my life as a lonely man who wishes he were a woman or I live my life as a lonelier woman who hates herself. There's no winning. There's no way out. I'm sad enough already, I don't need my life to get any worse," Alcorn wrote.

"People say 'it gets better' but that isn't true in my case. It gets worse. Each day I get worse."

All of the things he put into his suicide note were his beliefs. His thoughts.

His suffering was not in the fact. It was in the perception of the fact.

originally posted by: lovebeck

originally posted by: Lynk3
a reply to: snarky412

I support the LBGT crowd, and I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for saying this, but why can't people just accept who they are and what they have in life? Why do people always want to be something other than what they're meant to be, and why do they they always what more in life, and want what they can't have?

I understand some people are born with different brain chemistry, but it makes no sense to me. However, I am not one to judge another's decisions in life, and I accept and support all people for what they are. I guess I just can't see in their world because different perspective comes into play.

It makes no sense to you because you're obviously not a very deep thinker or very well read in this topic.

NO ONE would just decide to choose to go from being a boy to a girl. That goes against the core of society, being a male or female human, everything. You're assigned a GENDER based on the PARTS your are born with on the OUTSIDE of your body, at birth.

Sometimes those parts and what a person intrinsically feels INSIDE their MIND AND BODY differ. Maybe you should try learning more about this issue, and the people who are suffering for it, before posting such an insensitive remark.

Ignorance and insensitivity towards those who may be a little different is a bigger problem in the world than is ever reported and it is getting worse. This KID was bullied mercilessly at school, probably didn't have the most understanding folks, and felt SHE had no other option in this world but to throw herself in front of an 18 wheeler on Interstate 71.

So next time you find yourself faced with someone who's a little different, try some understanding for goodness sake. That goes for everyone, btw.

Did I, or did I not say I support LBGT, and I accept all personal decisions anyone makes in their life, and I'm not just restricting that to sexual identity. I also said, I can't see their world, because I'm heterosexual, amd I also said the different perspective of the universe around us makes it so I can never truly understand what they go through, just like a sane person can't know what it's like to be a paranoid schizophrenic with multiple personalities.

And as for me not being a deep thinker or well read, I admire your attempt to cause anger in me via personal insults. How about you stick to the subject at hand when debating?

a reply to: Soloprotocol

Selfish? Or a child in pain beyond which she could handle without help?

She was a child. Confused. In pain. ...and didn't see any recourse that would end it, other than the means she chose.

I find suicide to be a bad choice in many cases. ...and even a bit selfish in some, especially adults.

But for a child? Who sees nothing but pain in her future? It was fear, not selfishness.

I save my accusations of selfishness for her parents. Their only recourse/solution was therapy? Really? When the solution would have been as simple as loving their child. Simply loving her for what she was. Maybe she'd still be alive.

Society has much to answer for. Not least of which is this stupid herd mentality that to get along, one must go along...

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
what is really going on here?
www.befrienders.org...

In the last 45 years suicide rates have increased by 60% worldwide. Suicide is now among the three leading causes of death among those aged 15-44 (male and female). Suicide attempts are up to 20 times more frequent than completed suicides. Although suicide rates have traditionally been highest amongst elderly males, rates among young people have been increasing to such an extent that they are now the group at highest risk in a third of all countries. Mental health disorders (particularly depression and substance abuse) are associated with more than 90% of all cases of suicide. However, suicide results from many complex sociocultural factors and is more likely to occur during periods of socioeconomic, family and individual crisis (e.g. loss of a loved one, unemployment, sexual orientation, difficulties with developing one's identity, disassociation from one's community or other social/belief group, and honour). The WHO also states that: In Europe, particularly Eastern Europe, the highest suicide rates are reported for both men and women. The Eastern Mediterranean Region and Central Asia republics have the lowest suicide rates. Nearly 30% of all suicides worldwide occur in India and China. Suicides globally by age are as follows: 55% are aged between 15 to 44 years and 45% are aged 45 years and over. Youth suicide is increasing at the greatest rate. In the US, the Centre of Disease Control and Prevention reports that: Overall, suicide is the eleventh leading cause of death for all US Americans, and is the third leading cause of death for young people 15-24 years. Although suicide is a serious problem among the young and adults, death rates continue to be highest among older adults ages 65 years and over. Males are four times more likely to die from suicide than are females. However, females are more likely to attempt suicide than are males.

What's going on is the conditioning from our childhood that our happiness depends on external circumstances beyond our control.

There are only four things:

1) what we can control
2) what we can't control
3) what we have
4) what we don't have

When we focus on what we can't control, and give what we can't control power over our happiness, we will feel helpless. When we focus on what we don't have instead of what we do have, we will feel something is missing.

The person who killed himself focused on what he couldn't control (society, other people) and what he didn't have. He then gave meanings to what he focused on, and believed he could never change society, and could never have what he believed was needed to make him happy.

His death wasn't caused by society, or his parents. It was caused by his response to his situation. The world just puts us in situations. How we respond is what determines our future.

a reply to: Jamie1I'm curious. As he threw himself in front of that truck, did he think about the psychological damage he might inflict on the driver; as his body splattered everywhere?

Probably not! All he was thinking about was HIMSELF!!!

Did he think about the family members he left in sorrow and pain?

Probably not! All he was thinking about was HIMSELF!!!

People are playing Russian Roulette with Heaven and Hell. Unfortunately, there is no "easy way out", i'm afraid. Either you're going to endure the Hell on Earth; or you'll go through Hell, for eternity. Either way, you're going through Hell; like it, or not. So, ya might as well endure Hell on Earth, knowing that paradise in eternity comes quickly thereafter.

Don't rush the process!!!

originally posted by: Jamie1

You have no idea what he was going through either. That's the point. Any conjecture and speculation is just that - our own beliefs.

Have you ever raised a teenager? My guess is no.

You sound like a clinical textbook. Student perhaps.

You also remind me of Dr. Spock. After he married a woman with a teenage daughter,. Living the reality of raising a teenager, he changed his thinking. In so many words, Dr. Spock stated to ignore all his advice, he was wrong.

The last few days I decided to try and be a lot less judgmental, I will not judge the parents, the child, or the therapist.

As the mother of a type one diabetic, who has had to sit by her bed in the hospital three times and beg god to not let her die, from diabetic coma, because she wont take care of herself, I am at a loss .

How do I fix this?

I know when her diabetes is out of control, and then her thinking processes become irrational, she thinks she is fine, I tell her she is headed back into keto, she denies it, and I have no control over the situation, is she subconsciously on self destruct?

She is beautiful, well loved by many, college educated, but in total denial.

She is the first thing on my mind every morning, all day long, and before I go to sleep at night.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis


Something that might help people with this disorder is to stop calling it a disorder

Its a disorder when it completely destroys quality of life.


even if you give them a sex reassignment surgery, full accepting friends and family and full medical support a large proportion still down the line regret there choice or end up extremely unhappy.


Rather tip toeing round the issue and being all PC and New age one needs to look at it logically.


Maybe being gay is a disorder too? But as long as they can find happiness in life that is irrelevant.

Unfortunately very very few transgendered people find contentment. Therefore it becomes a problem.

a reply to: Jamie1

What can't be ignored is that the two people can experience identical outside circumstances and make dramatically different choices in the meanings they give to the circumstances.

What also can't be ignored is that two different people can look at the same situation - and while one will have compassion for another person's suffering, the other does nothing but condemn

This whole toughen up soldier and start yanking yourself up by your own bootstraps bullcrap has become the centerpiece of what passes for civility in our culture lately

We get that you don't actually care. Your goofy rationalizations are pretty transparent - as are your after-the-fact remedies for something you don't consider a problem in the first place

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Have you read the Casey Johnson story?

Heiress of Johnson & Johnson, who died of complications of diabetes. She also was diagnosed with a personality disorder. She wouldn't take care of herself.

nypost.com...

a reply to: seagullMay i ask, why do people keep referring to him as her or she? God doesn't make mistakes.

It's little things like that, which has our society completely lost! Totally confused; like you said, he was. And, confusion doesn't come from God. So, aren't you helping further the confusion, by calling him a her???

a reply to: crazyewok

Its a disorder when it completely destroys quality of life.

The question is - the quality of life of who - the kid or the adults around them?

If we no longer, as a people, considered it a problem - they wouldn't suffer. These kids would be allowed to be who they are - not forced to behave and live according to what other people decide is normal

Did you read anything even remotely resembling science on this? Things are changing. We actually know stuff now

As we learn more and more - this idea that anything that doesn't conform to what society considers normal is a disorder will disappear. So will the suicides

It's a pretty straight forward problem - cause and effect are obvious

I have to say - even if there were no science at all to back up their claims, and this came down to kids just wanting to be what they feel they are - who are we to tell them no?

Why Gender Dysphoria Should No Longer Be Considered a Medical Disorder

In fact, in an article I consider key to understanding the issue, Bartlett, Vasey, and William Bukowski noted a fundamental contradiction in the DSM specifically where GID in childhood is concerned. Partly because of the history of the de-medicalization of homosexuality, the DSM specifically defines mental disorder as constituting a dysfunction in the individual, not “deviant” behavior nor a conflict between an individual and his or her society.

Yet the current DSM allows children who are merely notably gender atypical in their family’s culture to be labeled as having a mental disorder, even though in another society (say, Samoa), they might be considered perfectly acceptable. That sure does look a lot like the history of the de-medicalization of homosexuality.

It's time people started reexamining their positions

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Jamie1

You have no idea what he was going through either. That's the point. Any conjecture and speculation is just that - our own beliefs.

Have you ever raised a teenager? My guess is no.

You sound like a clinical textbook. Student perhaps.

You also remind me of Dr. Spock. After he married a woman with a teenage daughter,. Living the reality of raising a teenager, he changed his thinking. In so many words, Dr. Spock stated to ignore all his advice, he was wrong.

Your perceptions about me are a reflection of your own experiences and beliefs, not mine.

Dr. Spock's theories on child-rearing have zero to do with this thread. This is about a young person who made the choice to end his own life because of the meaning he gave to the situation he was in.

He could have chosen different beliefs which would have led to different actions and different results.

Go ahead and test it out. Think of a time you were upset over some external circumstances, and try to explain why you were upset without giving the circumstance some meaning based on your beliefs.

Rather than personally judge me just give one example showing how what I'm saying is incorrect.

a reply to: McChillin

Why?

Because that's how she saw herself. She wanted it that way. ...and perhaps if more people would have accepted that? Why, she might not have decided to step in front of a truck.

Maybe?

originally posted by: seagull

Selfish? Or a child in pain beyond which she could handle without help?

She was a child. Confused. In pain. ...and didn't see any recourse that would end it, other than the means she chose.

She was 17, is that a child?

I find suicide to be a bad choice in many cases. ...and even a bit selfish in some, especially adults.

But for a child? Who sees nothing but pain in her future? It was fear, not selfishness.

How is this different than a person born without sight and decides to end their life because they will never see. People have over come vastly more disabilities then this and lived a good life. In this person's case they got so self absorbed that they created their own pain instead of working with what they got in life.

I find that today's youth are far too narcissistic and this leads to the whole "life is unfair" attitude when they have more going for them then any other time in our history. They do not want to work though difficult situations they want to reset everything, like a game. 99%ers are a good example of younger people not willing to work hard for life's goals, so they want to reset it all so that everyone starts at level 1 just like they are. Well life is not that way, sorry.

I have friends who are asexual and have gone though life just great without some drive to reproduce that pushed them to commit suicide. They have had relationships as they have found like individuals, so any pain this person felt was all self created so I really do not have much empathy for them other than to say it is sad when anyone reaches the point they decide to kill themselves and they have a whole life ahead of them.

a reply to: McChillin

You're assuming that there IS a god. What if there isn't one? What if there is one, but he's cruel? Either one of those answers would explain an awful lot in this world.

According to Leelah, there was no confusion. The confusion lies with a society who doesn't or won't understand.