'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

originally posted by: kaylaluv
I'm getting a little tired of the whole "it's no one else's fault - she made her own choice" crap. Yes it's true that no one forced her to commit suicide - it was her choice. But she felt like it was the most valid choice she could make, based on how she was being treated.

Example: I've seen threads on here that tell stories about people abusing/neglecting/starving infants/children. People get on those threads and scream and shout how angry it makes them, and how they would love to torture/kill those people for what they did to the innocent children. Why have that reaction? Why not choose to be forgiving to those people? Because you feel like your choice to be angry is a valid choice, considering what those people did. Do you blame yourself for your reaction or do you blame the abusers of children for your reaction?

Another Example: Lets say the government finally does what every gun lover has been afraid of -- they say it's time to start taking guns away from people, and have much stricter rules on who is allowed to have guns. What would be the gun lover's reaction? How would they choose to react? I can pretty much predict how they will react. Why don't they choose another way to react? Why don't they just accept it and be happy without their guns? Who is responsible for the way the gun lovers react? The gun lovers themselves, or the government?

This poor girl was treated badly by the very people she depended on to help her. She felt like her choice to commit suicide was a valid choice, based on other's actions towards her. Why do we move so fast to blame her for her choice/reaction, and not the ones who made her feel the need to have that reaction?

It was 100% her choice, based on the the meaning SHE gave to her outside conditions.

She didn't NEED to have that reaction. She chose to have that reaction.

Encouraging people to feel bad based on their outside circumstances is NOT helping them. It's keeping them stuck. Why teach people their feelings and actions are at the mercy of people they can't control.

I work with women whose parents and brothers had sex with them. That's a fact. It happened. It can't be undone.

How those women respond, the meaning they give it, and the actions they take going forward is what they can control. They have a choice. They can label themselves a victim and be depressed. Or they can choose to be happy and enjoy life.

Once they realize it's only their own thoughts that are imprisoning them, they all choose to be happy.

a reply to: crazyewok

Where are you pulling that statistic from?

I only personally know one person who is post-op and she has no regrets. My understanding is most who have the surgery are much happier after. Keep in mind that even a doctor will not perform the surgery on just anyone, even in Thailand. A patient has to meet the criteria and a psychologist has to approve the surgery too.

It's sad that this girls parents refused to help. Telling someone they need to 'find God' is not the solution for transgender related issues. It is the closed mindedness of others that pushes so many to suicide, in my opinion.

An inspector from a local municipality gets to use the mayors personal washroom because nobody knows what to do with he/she's personal needs. This PC crap is getting out of hand. These people make personal choices and the whole world has to bend to their personal needs. But hey! They just want to be like everyone else...

originally posted by: Annee
This was a transgender teen who wanted to start medical treatment to stop the affects of Testosterone.

He did make his choices. He was denied the right of those choices by his religious parents.

He knew what he needed to be happy. It was denied.

As he said, by age 18 it would be too late. The Testosterone would have already changed his appearance.

He didn't need medical treatment to stop the affects of testosterone to be happy.

He believed he did.

Big difference. His choice in what he believed is what caused him to kill himself, not the facts of the situation.

There are billions of people who would like to look different than they do, and they don't kill themselves.

Why?

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: Klassified

Being the parent of four children, ages 47 to 27, I can say in retrospect I failed them miserably.

I can't imagine the guilt they must live with.

A point well made.

originally posted by: Jamie1
It was 100% her choice, based on the the meaning SHE gave to her outside conditions.

She didn't NEED to have that reaction. She chose to have that reaction.

Encouraging people to feel bad based on their outside circumstances is NOT helping them. It's keeping them stuck. Why teach people their feelings and actions are at the mercy of people they can't control.

I work with women whose parents and brothers had sex with them. That's a fact. It happened. It can't be undone.

If you look at your language, you'll notice all of this involves third party involvement.

It's a statistical fact that if a person receives mostly bad inputs growing up, you will get bad outcomes. This might be uncomfortable for some people to accept but a lot of what we do isn't down to our choices good or bad. A good pile of it is circumstance and genetics.

That said, you're right. Encouraging people to feel bad is not helpful. That doesn't mean that this person's sole reason for committing suicide can be pithily ignored as a 'choice' to make everyone feel better about themselves.

And for any person that thinks being trans is 'glorified' ... come out to your family, cross dress for a few months, get disowned a few times, enjoy the increased rate of murder and suicide then pull your head out your butt.

a reply to: crazyewok

Something that might help people with this disorder is to stop calling it a disorder

Gender dysmorphia is a pretty difficult and complicated issue.

It is - especially since we insist on calling something a disorder when it's not. Homosexuality used to be considered a disorder as well. It's mostly just inconvenient for a society that's only just begun to understand it's own biology and the idea of gender

What is gender? How is it determined? Is it always this - or always that, or does it exist on a scale - is it more of a spectrum?
Causes of gender dysphoria

The causes of gender dysphoria are not yet fully understood. Gender dysphoria was traditionally thought to be a psychiatric condition, with its causes believed to originate in the mind. However, more recent studies have suggested that gender dysphoria is biological and caused by the development of gender identity before birth. The condition is not a mental illness.

What can the Samoan "Fa'afafine" teach us about the Western concept of gender identity disorder in childhood?

Based on the cross-cultural information presented here, we conclude that the diagnostic category of GIDC should not occur in its current form in future editions of the DSM, as there is no compelling evidence that cross-gender behaviors or identities, in and of themselves, cause distress in the individual.

There is so much more information out there right now there's no point in my posting more of it. It's interesting to me how far people will go to make their worlds feel normal - so far in fact that they would rather their children be treated like a freak and a problem with a mental disorder rather than just humor them - if that is the best they can do under the circumstances - out of love

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
So before we put the blame all upon the way the parents handled this, consider the chance it is body dysmorphic disorder.

Regardless of what the cause of the kid's feelings were; he needed actual therapy, not 500cc of Jesus.

His parents betrayed him.

a reply to: Jamie1

So the parents and brothers who committed incest have no accountability? From the way you are talking, there is no such thing as a victim, therefore there is no such thing as a crime.

originally posted by: Pinke

originally posted by: Jamie1
It was 100% her choice, based on the the meaning SHE gave to her outside conditions.

She didn't NEED to have that reaction. She chose to have that reaction.

Encouraging people to feel bad based on their outside circumstances is NOT helping them. It's keeping them stuck. Why teach people their feelings and actions are at the mercy of people they can't control.

I work with women whose parents and brothers had sex with them. That's a fact. It happened. It can't be undone.

If you look at your language, you'll notice all of this involves third party involvement.

It's a statistical fact that if a person receives mostly bad inputs growing up, you will get bad outcomes. This might be uncomfortable for some people to accept but a lot of what we do isn't down to our choices good or bad. A good pile of it is circumstance and genetics.

That said, you're right. Encouraging people to feel bad is not helpful. That doesn't mean that this person's sole reason for committing suicide can be pithily ignored as a 'choice' to make everyone feel better about themselves.

And for any person that thinks being trans is 'glorified' ... come out to your family, cross dress for a few months, get disowned a few times, enjoy the increased rate of murder and suicide then pull your head out your butt.

Yes, the person's sole reason for committing suicide was that person's choice.

What can't be ignored is that the two people can experience identical outside circumstances and make dramatically different choices in the meanings they give to the circumstances.

Some people are raped and they choose to suffer the rest of their lives. Others are raped and choose to go forward in life and still be happy. Why? Because they give the experience a different meaning.

We all have the choice to give any external circumstance whatever meaning we choose to give it.

Teaching people they have no choice in what meaning to give external events does not serve them. It imprisons them.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Jamie1

So the parents and brothers who committed incest have no accountability? From the way you are talking, there is no such thing as a victim, therefore there is no such thing as a crime.

Of course they have accountability. There is a victim in the legal sense.

The person who was raped still has the choice as to what meaning to give the experience. Of course it's an intense experience. That doesn't mean that long-term emotional suffering is required. It's not. Emotional suffering ends the second the person realizes that the rape might have lasted a few minutes, but the stories they told themselves about it lasted 30 years.

The meanings they give the experience are what cause the long-term emotional suffering, not the acts themselves.

a reply to: Jamie1

Yes, a rape does only last a few minutes, then it's over. Being constantly rejected by every one, every day of your life is never over. I don't think you can compare the two situations.

consider this, and there is a more recent study I can't find right now

Developing brain governs teen actions
phys.org...

Having raised 4 kids and a granddaughter, through many decades, I have seen it all, someone feel sorry for me, please., lol

And here I sit with my great granddaughter.

originally posted by: Jamie1
Yes, the person's sole reason for committing suicide was that person's choice.

What can't be ignored is that the two people can experience identical outside circumstances and make dramatically different choices in the meanings they give to the circumstances.

If this was true there would be a roughly equal distribution of suicides in all demographics, and there would be little correlation between therapeutic methods and outcomes. Being a victim of child abused wouldn't reliably raise people's chances of committing certain types of crimes etc ... This isn't the case.

There is a difference between enforcing personal responsibility and what you're implying - that there are no other contributing factors.

originally posted by: eNumbra

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
So before we put the blame all upon the way the parents handled this, consider the chance it is body dysmorphic disorder.

Regardless of what the cause of the kid's feelings were; he needed actual therapy, not 500cc of Jesus.

His parents betrayed him.

I don't think they wanted to betray their child, and how much do we know about the therapist?

I will look into it.

a reply to: Jamie1

Teens are just not mentally ready for some of lifes challenges,

originally posted by: Pinke

originally posted by: Jamie1
Yes, the person's sole reason for committing suicide was that person's choice.

What can't be ignored is that the two people can experience identical outside circumstances and make dramatically different choices in the meanings they give to the circumstances.

If this was true there would be a roughly equal distribution of suicides in all demographics, and there would be little correlation between therapeutic methods and outcomes. Being a victim of child abused wouldn't reliably raise people's chances of committing certain types of crimes etc ... This isn't the case.

There is a difference between enforcing personal responsibility and what you're implying - that there are no other contributing factors.

You're confusing correlation with causation, and you're initial assumption is incorrect because it does not account for beliefs, values, and conditioning across all demographics.

It is 100% true that a person who commits suicide made that decision. The girl from the OP made the choice to walk in front of a truck. She had unlimited other options.

The reason she made the choice to kill herself was because of her beliefs about her situation. Certain demographics might share common beliefs.

And therapy? What could therapy possibly change if not a person's beliefs? Therapy doesn't change past events that happened to a person. It changes the meaning a person gives to those events, and helps them create a compelling future moving forward.

No matter what the external circumstance, it's always the meaning that a person gives it that determines their emotions and actions.

We have a choice in the meaning we give anything.

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: Annee
This was a transgender teen who wanted to start medical treatment to stop the affects of Testosterone.

He did make his choices. He was denied the right of those choices by his religious parents.

He knew what he needed to be happy. It was denied.

As he said, by age 18 it would be too late. The Testosterone would have already changed his appearance.

He didn't need medical treatment to stop the affects of testosterone to be happy.

I don't agree with you. The physical changes of testosterone are not reversible. As he said, he would have looked like a man in a dress.

It was more then just a choice to be happy.

And if you don't think I understand what you're saying, I comtimplated suicide at age 9. I made the choice if you're at the bottom, the only way out is up. But, that was me. I was born with that fighting spirit. Not everyone is like me.

Where did you get your "Flip a Switch" attitude from?

originally posted by: Jamie1


Of course they have accountability. There is a victim in the legal sense.

Then Leelah's parents and society in general should have accountability as well.

Suicide Rates Rise Sharply in U.S.
www.nytimes.com...

I thought I would post these stats

teensuicidestatistics.com...