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'Fix Society': Transgender Teen Posted Plea Before Suicide

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posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 12:45 PM
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a reply to: McChillin




And, confusion doesn't come from God.


This God you keep bringing up - is it compassionate?

Is it stupid?
edit on 1/1/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: to ask the obvious




posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Jamie1


What can't be ignored is that the two people can experience identical outside circumstances and make dramatically different choices in the meanings they give to the circumstances.

What also can't be ignored is that two different people can look at the same situation - and while one will have compassion for another person's suffering, the other does nothing but condemn

This whole toughen up soldier and start yanking yourself up by your own bootstraps bullcrap has become the centerpiece of what passes for civility in our culture lately

We get that you don't actually care. Your goofy rationalizations are pretty transparent - as are your after-the-fact remedies for something you don't consider a problem in the first place



Your conclusion I don't care is based on your own perceptions and beliefs. It's not a fact.

I have compassion for people who are suffering. Showing people that their own thoughts, their "stories" about their situation is what is causing them suffering immediately frees them from their suffering.

I worked with a girl very similar to one who killed himself. She told me afterwards that she was planning on killing herself that weekend.

Instead chance brought our paths together.

She believed that she could never be happy because she was gay and wouldn't ever be accepted by her father. It didn't matter whether she was "right" or "wrong" about this conclusion. What mattered was that she realized this thought was what was causing her emotional suffering, not the reality.

It was like the weight of the world was lifted from her. Her life changed in that moment. She realized she was free to chose any thought she wanted. She chose to believe that what she had control over was to be herself and be unconditionally loving towards her father no matter what his response.

I asked her what words she wanted to hear from her father. She said, "I love you just the way you are."

I told her then maybe those are the words she should SAY to her father.

Big difference between telling her father she loved him just the way he was and her slitting her wrists with the steak knife she carried in her purse.

Did her external situation change at all? No.

What changed?

First, her awareness that her thoughts what what was causing her to feel hopeless. Then the meaning she gave to the situation.

Giving love unconditionally instead of walking in front of a truck is the direct reflection of the individual's thoughts, not their external world.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

I'm approaching my mid-50's... Seventeen is a child. That's just the way it is...

How often are blind folk ostracized by society? Pitied, perhaps. But ostracized? I've never seen it.

How are those asexual friends treated by people, in general?

Not everyone, transgendered or otherwise, are going to do what this kid did. I don't think I would...I don't care enough about what people think of me to be that hurt.

This whole action was as a result of pain. Inflicted from outside, and from her own mind. She needed help that was not provided. It might have been as simple as giving her a hug, and accepting her as she was... But we'll never know, will we?



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 12:56 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1


Giving love unconditionally instead of walking in front of a truck is the direct reflection of the individual's thoughts, not their external world.


Insisting that that was even an option for her when you weren't personally there to save her tells me a little something


Your conclusion I don't care is based on your own perceptions and beliefs. It's not a fact.


I think I have me some facts - we just disagree about what those facts say
edit on 1/1/2015 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

If we no longer, as a people, considered it a problem - they wouldn't suffer. These kids would be allowed to be who they are - not forced to behave and live according to what other people decide is normal


You over simplifying it.

Even those that have full acceptance from family ect still suffer a higher rate of depression and suicide.

External factors are only a small part of it.

Internal emotional stability plays a huge factor and when one goes round playing with hormones and having surgery then issue can and will arise.

It is not as simple as putting on a dress and calling a he and she.

Hell I dont care if one dresses up as a girl or whatever hell I love a nice pair of heels even if I do associate myself as a heterosexual male. And society could do with being more accepting. But 99% is down what going on in ones brain.



originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
Did you read anything even remotely resembling science on this?

Things are changing. We actually know stuff now



We are slowly knowing more BUT we still have barely touched the surface.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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originally posted by: Jamie1

Rather than personally judge me just give one example showing how what I'm saying is incorrect.


It is your perception I'm judging you.

Curiosity on how you came to your way of thinking is reasonable. To me you sound textbook, like a student.

I've lived a long, complicated life, to reflect on. Have you?




edit on 1-1-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Xtrozero

I'm approaching my mid-50's... Seventeen is a child. That's just the way it is...

How often are blind folk ostracized by society? Pitied, perhaps. But ostracized? I've never seen it.


I'll be 55 this year too. Looking at this situation today compared to just 30 years ago, transgender is commonly accepted where just 30 years ago they would have gone though a much more difficult time. I would say today that overweight people tend to receive more negative reaction then transgender. There is even a transgender mayor in a town near me.



How are those asexual friends treated by people, in general?


They see everyone as close friends with no sexual differences.



This whole action was as a result of pain. Inflicted from outside, and from her own mind. She needed help that was not provided. It might have been as simple as giving her a hug, and accepting her as she was... But we'll never know, will we?


I agree we can not Monday morning quarterback it, but I still feel it was all self induced pain that given time she would have many other options available.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Have you read the Casey Johnson story?

Heiress of Johnson & Johnson, who died of complications of diabetes. She also was diagnosed with a personality disorder. She wouldn't take care of herself.

nypost.com...


thanks annee, i might read it if i get brave enough



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 01:11 PM
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originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Have you read the Casey Johnson story?

Heiress of Johnson & Johnson, who died of complications of diabetes. She also was diagnosed with a personality disorder. She wouldn't take care of herself.

nypost.com...


thanks annee, i might read it if i get brave enough


Yeah, I purposely didn't post details. Sending you and family positive energy.


edit on 1-1-2015 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Jamie1


Giving love unconditionally instead of walking in front of a truck is the direct reflection of the individual's thoughts, not their external world.


Insisting that that was even an option for her when you weren't personally there to save her tells me a little something


Your conclusion I don't care is based on your own perceptions and beliefs. It's not a fact.


I think I have me some facts - we just disagree about what those facts say


Unless you don't believe in free will, there was an option for her other than walking in front of a truck.

One of the options we all have is controlling our focus with questions.

"What can I be grateful for right now?" is a question that shifts a person's focus, and their emotional state. It's a much different question than "Why have I been cursed with such awful circumstances?"

We do know what she was thinking when she wrote the suicide note. Those were all her beliefs that led to her walking in front of the truck.

And yes, we disagree on what facts say. That's what make a belief different from a fact. If something can have two meanings, it has no meaning.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok



You over simplifying it.


I don't think I am

You want to depend on suicide statistics that prove they would be depressed anyway - even with treatment - when in fact the situation is stressful from beginning to end, with or without treatment - because societal acceptance is still rare - not the norm

The only way I will rest in peace is if one day transgender people aren't treated the way I was, they're treated like humans, with valid feelings and human rights

Fix society. Please.

Understand that hopelessness leads to depression - you seem to want to think this is a deep seated psychological problem that comes automatically with being transgendered regardless of what the environment says - when in fact they are depressed because of an environment they can't escape

Young people haven't lived long enough to know what they can or can't survive. Occasionally adults feel the same thing. Being accepted by those you love and by society at large is everything

If it wasn't - solitary confinement or ostracizing wouldn't work



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1


Unless you don't believe in free will, there was an option for her other than walking in front of a truck.


Indeed. I wonder why she didn't choose right...

Maybe she wasn't in the very best state of mind? She hadn't received the proper training? She didn't know that her parents love was ultimately unimportant? She didn't understand that she didn't need the acceptance of her peers or society to be happy?

Her own ignorance and weakness is what killed this girl - plain and simple

It's the first day of the new year. One of my resolutions for this new year is to start trusting my gut more - I don't believe in the soul exactly, but somehow this doesn't prevent me from believing that some folks are soulless



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 01:37 PM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Jamie1

Rather than personally judge me just give one example showing how what I'm saying is incorrect.


It is your perception I'm judging you.

Curiosity on how you came to your way of thinking is reasonable. To me you sound textbook, like a student.

I've lived a long, complicated life, to reflect on. Have you?





Maybe judging wasn't the right word. You theorized about my age and life experience, like you are now.

Everybody has lived through countless experience. It's your belief that it was complicated and long. It's your choice to give your life those meanings.

Funny you used the term "reasonable" in describing what I'm sharing with you. Yes, it is 100% reason-able.

Reason this:

Our results are produced by our actions.
Our actions are determined by our decisions.
Our decisions are determined by our evaluations.
Our evaluations are determined by what we choose to believe, and what we choose to focus on.

We can control our focus by asking questions. What temperature is it? That questions causes your mind to focus on the temperate. Is it hot or cold? That answer requires a belief. The temperature, the fact, is that it's 55 degrees outside. Some people believe 55 is cold. Others believe it's hot. It's neither. But you will act according to what you decide to believe it is.

This isn't from a text book. I've been in many situations where people, like the girl who killed herself, needed help. One woman watched her boss in Detroit blow his brains out. She suffered for years emotionally over this. When she realized it was her thoughts that were causing her suffering, she was overcome with joy. It was like she was given a new life.

Again, if you can give an example where your emotional state isn't the result of your focus and the meanings you give to your situation, I'd love to hear it.

As you go through the day, just become aware of your own thoughts. When you're upset, or emotionally triggered, be aware of the thought that triggered the emotion. You don't need to change the thought. Just become aware of it, and that it is just a thought, a belief, that's causing your emotional state.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Jamie1


Unless you don't believe in free will, there was an option for her other than walking in front of a truck.


Indeed. I wonder why she didn't choose right...

Maybe she wasn't in the very best state of mind? She hadn't received the proper training? She didn't know that her parents love was ultimately unimportant? She didn't understand that she didn't need the acceptance of her peers or society to be happy?

Her own ignorance and weakness is what killed this girl - plain and simple

It's the first day of the new year. One of my resolutions for this new year is to start trusting my gut more - I don't believe in the soul exactly, but somehow this doesn't prevent me from believing that some folks are soulless


Of course she wasn't in the best state of mind, and no, she was never taught that her thoughts, not her environment, was what was causing her emotional pain.

It had nothing to do with weakness. It had everything to do with conditioning and awareness.

What is more soulless, insisting that a person lacks the inherent ability to control their own happiness, regardless of their environment, or insisting that they can>?



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 02:00 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1


What is more soulless, insisting that a person lacks the inherent ability to control their own happiness, regardless of their environment, or insisting that they can>?

She's gone. All your advice and admonishment wasted on a girl that has passed

We both insist on different things



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 02:01 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1




Giving love unconditionally instead of walking in front of a truck is the direct reflection of the individual's thoughts, not their external world.


I enjoy your post, but everyone is different, you can't get inside anothers head and predict what they are going to do, if they are so mentally unstable then all the talk or reasoning in the world wont stop them.


edit on 023131p://bThursday2015 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 02:03 PM
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I feel bad for Joshua Alcorn and the difficulty he was going through. I feel bad for the truck driver who got used for this suicide and for the parents of Joshua Alcorn as well. A difficult situation for everyone and no good answers.



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: Jamie1

How does one control their own happiness regardless of their circumstances?

I know it is possible and have been their when I was very spiritually in tune.

I have tried reasoning with people who are self destructive, and there is no one home, they are sometime so far gone.

They really don't want to die, they really don't want to hurt anyone,



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 02:09 PM
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How much pain is more than you can take, it varies, some of us can withstand more than others.

What is a persons breaking point?
edit on 023131p://bThursday2015 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 1 2015 @ 02:16 PM
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originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: Jamie1


What is more soulless, insisting that a person lacks the inherent ability to control their own happiness, regardless of their environment, or insisting that they can>?

She's gone. All your advice and admonishment wasted on a girl that has passed

We both insist on different things




Yes, but like she wanted, maybe her death can have meaning. Maybe somebody will find this thread and have an "aha" moment when they realize that emotional suffering is not in the facts, but in the perception of the facts.

It's only your belief and perception that what I'm saying is any sort of admonishment, or that it's wasted.



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