Russia targets the Baltic states, NATO warns Russia (round 2)

a reply to: Xcathdra

What you are doing is showing your hypocrisy and willful ignorance on this specific issue.

I know 1000 times more than you.
Again, I'm not going to discuss what are the laws in Russia or USA or China, it is not my business.
I specified exactly which problems exist in Latvia. This thread is about Baltic states, and Latvia is one of them.
Your initial report was based on some interpretation what some Russian official said in Riga. I don't have info what he said exactly.But on my part I'm contributing to this thread: adding well sourced information, you - just adding noise.

Last time I'm going briefly answer to you.

1. What happens with "labor migrants" is not the same like Latvian laws of citizenship. Those people (Latvian alien citizens) were born there during USSR time, lived there all their lives.
2. Latvia indeed outlawed dual citizenship ( with recent amendments to the law of citizenship) with most countries except narrow list of EU plus USA, Canada, Australia, some other.
Russia said it will criminalize cases when people fail to declare they also hold another citizenship. It is not quite the same like your false allegations that "Russia outlawed dual citizenship"

Even if they outlaw dual citizenship in the future - it is their right, it doesn't contradicts international laws.
I didn't started discussion about dual citizenship, but the facts are just opposite. It is Latvia that prohibits dual citizenship with Russia and not vice versa. I will add to the spice Latvia criminalizing people if they fail to denounce their second citizenship. It is not so easy to denounce citizenship in some countries and receive official confirmation. By Latvian laws you are criminal if you neither denounced Latvian citizenship or didn't bring to them official letter from the state you ceased to be a citizen.

a reply to: bjarneorn

he provided the evidence in a million refugees and tens of thousands of dead civilians

Care to provide a link for that?

the problem was, you just didn't want to see it. It never got reported in western media.

What are you talking about?

He also deliberately "created" evidence, by sending non-combatant boys into Ukraine, that got arrested and some murdered. The murder part, is all the excuse he needed ... that was the declaration of war.

And who would He be?

Which show, YOU are the problem ... you aren't objective. And that is the problem, not the Russians.

And how am I the problem, because I feel Putin is a fool and losing his mind?

And your wrong because the Russians are the problem, because they decided to invade a sovereign country and take over part of that sovereign country and that's a problem.

While Russia should have concerns regarding the ill treatment of Russian people, but I do not think Kremlin should make a military move in these Baltic countries.

Russia currently has shortage of skilled labor in computer coding, advanced engineering, aviation technologies etc. Hence Russia should encourage the ethnic Russians in hostile states like Baltics to immigrate back to RF.

These new immigrants can be settled in areas where Russia needs more presence like near China or Caucasus etc.

Russia still have over 95% literacy rates, so converting educated persons into a skilled workers should not be a problem at all.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I grew up in Latvia and came to US right when all that crap started happening. I was born Russian, when Latvia was part of USSR. I went to a Russian kindergarten then Russian school where Latvian language class was mandatory. Everywhere people spoke both languages, you would not get lost if you just knew one. But around 2000 and on things started to change. Now all education is demanded to be in Latvian, if you do not know Latvian, you cannot get anywhere. Russian populace is being squeezed out slowly. I got lucky to move to the states when i did. My Latvian is terrible. Putin did do some stupid # like cutting off pieces from another country when we have whole north west part of Russia uninhabited.

originally posted by: GargIndia
I want to ask a question: what can Latvia or Estonia do against Russia realistically??

Any intelligent answer is welcome.

I can offer you some clue - even if NATO forces are stationed in these two countries, such forces will be sitting ducks to Russian artillery fire in case of war. No airfield will survive beyond the first day of war.

Just the fact you think artillery is effective shows how little you understand about modern combat. Artillery gets wiped out after first shot its fired. Western countries have these neat devices that determine the exact position of the artillery and launch a missile before the first round even lands. You have to realize Russian military is at least 30 years behind NATO. This is why Putin was paying the west for military equipment.

Russian artillery is no threat and even 1000 quick reaction force can take on a Russian advance od ten times that number and win. Russias only fall back is they can threaten with nukes which they are doing alot lately. But even there options are limited for Putin.

Russia did the same Russian is mandatory and the only language taught but again this is typical of alot of countries. Other language's are considered foreign language's and only taught in specific classes.

a reply to: dragonridr

Artillery gets wiped out after first shot its fired. Western countries have these neat devices that determine the exact position of the artillery and launch a missile before the first round even lands. You have to realize Russian military is at least 30 years behind NATO.

Not really, there are ways to subdue the signatures sent out by firing the artillery gun. Also, there are systems which are self propelled meaning they move away as soon as it is fired upon. It takes artillery shell good 15-20 seconds to land upto the range of 20 kms, and that is lots of time to move.

Russian military is probably 15 years behind NATO on comprehensive terms. However, once Russians "neutralize" the stealth features of USAF i.e. F-22/B-2/F-35s, it will be a "bloody mess" of a war for both the sides.

Candidly, I do not know if Russians can thwart the F-22s/B-2 initial attacks. If they have that capability, then lots of strong chips in western arsenal are watered down.

a reply to: victor7

Putin has infact invited russians back to russia for years now already, but, suprise suprise, nobody wants to go there.

a reply to: Lokk555

Not from Baltics where they can go to EU to work and come to US without a visa............them being a part of NATO.

However, menial work in EU is one thing and regular value building work in Russia or Asia is another. Individual choices it seems.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: GargIndia
I want to ask a question: what can Latvia or Estonia do against Russia realistically??

Any intelligent answer is welcome.

I can offer you some clue - even if NATO forces are stationed in these two countries, such forces will be sitting ducks to Russian artillery fire in case of war. No airfield will survive beyond the first day of war.

Just the fact you think artillery is effective shows how little you understand about modern combat. Artillery gets wiped out after first shot its fired. Western countries have these neat devices that determine the exact position of the artillery and launch a missile before the first round even lands. You have to realize Russian military is at least 30 years behind NATO. This is why Putin was paying the west for military equipment.

Russian artillery is no threat and even 1000 quick reaction force can take on a Russian advance od ten times that number and win. Russias only fall back is they can threaten with nukes which they are doing alot lately. But even there options are limited for Putin.

Russia has fought several conflicts since end of cold war - one with Georgia some time back and this one with Ukraine ongoing. Can you tell me in this context how your devices work?

I know far more about military technology than you do.

You are just a yes man of jingoists. Don't get inflated ego.

a reply to: GargIndia

Russian artillery is no threat and even 1000 quick reaction force can take on a Russian advance od ten times that number and win.

Where did this DUCK CRAP type comment fall from?............badly stinks too !!!

a reply to: victor7

Come on people, why you even considering some artillery in NATO against Russia war ?
It is clear that nuclear weapons will be used. Putin visited secret bunkers in Altai Krai several days ago, if you don't see that there is Nuclear Threat Alert RED Button BLINKING well, you may feel safe in USA. But I'm not so ...

And the other clown, Obama. He was drugged during his last speech about ISIL.

We have paranoic and apathic/drugged fellows with buttons.

a reply to: kitzik

Forget about NATO vrs Russia war. That is not happening.

What needs to happen is the taking into shape and recognition of NovoRossiya this winter. Then things can go normal manner for all the parties involved.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: GargIndia

Russian artillery is no threat and even 1000 quick reaction force can take on a Russian advance od ten times that number and win.

Where did this DUCK CRAP type comment fall from?............badly stinks too !!!

Victor, your are quoting the wrong person!! Please edit your comment.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: kitzik

Forget about NATO vrs Russia war. That is not happening.

What needs to happen is the taking into shape and recognition of NovoRossiya this winter. Then things can go normal manner for all the parties involved.

Victor, NATO Russia war is very much happening. The Ukraine revolution is the first shot.

I have always said that these events are beyond Russia's expectations. Russia has been forced to react and defend itself.

It is a fact that an adversarial Ukraine is not workable for Russia. The long border, the family and economic connections etc. are factors that Russia simply cannot overcome. There is no option for Russia but to militarily change the situation in its favour.

a reply to: GargIndia

Sorry pal, it was a reply to Dragonridr and his massively stinky post about 10x the size of Russian force getting a beat from few NATO slicks.

Twisting and bloating facts is his main tactics.

Btw, this war between Kiev Junta and NAF will be known as the artillery war due to high use of artillery in working towards the objectives.

a reply to: GargIndia

I have always said that these events are beyond Russia's expectations. Russia has been forced to react and defend itself.

In that case Russia needs to speed up things and have NAF comprehensively defeat Junta forces in this coming winter to close the issue of Ukraine for long time.

originally posted by: GargIndia

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: GargIndia
I want to ask a question: what can Latvia or Estonia do against Russia realistically??

Any intelligent answer is welcome.

I can offer you some clue - even if NATO forces are stationed in these two countries, such forces will be sitting ducks to Russian artillery fire in case of war. No airfield will survive beyond the first day of war.

Just the fact you think artillery is effective shows how little you understand about modern combat. Artillery gets wiped out after first shot its fired. Western countries have these neat devices that determine the exact position of the artillery and launch a missile before the first round even lands. You have to realize Russian military is at least 30 years behind NATO. This is why Putin was paying the west for military equipment.

Russian artillery is no threat and even 1000 quick reaction force can take on a Russian advance od ten times that number and win. Russias only fall back is they can threaten with nukes which they are doing alot lately. But even there options are limited for Putin.

Russia has fought several conflicts since end of cold war - one with Georgia some time back and this one with Ukraine ongoing. Can you tell me in this context how your devices work?

I know far more about military technology than you do.

You are just a yes man of jingoists. Don't get inflated ego.

Radar tracks and plots incoming projectiles once a track is received counter battery fire can be conducted. This can be missiles or helos like the cobra or for that matter return artillery fire and air craft. Bottom line les than a minute to return fire depending on whats on station. NATO has been practicing this for years meaning Russian artillery would have a life expectancy of minutes. This is even used to counter mortar fire and you know how quickly they can be moved.

originally posted by: GargIndia

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: kitzik

Forget about NATO vrs Russia war. That is not happening.

What needs to happen is the taking into shape and recognition of NovoRossiya this winter. Then things can go normal manner for all the parties involved.

Victor, NATO Russia war is very much happening. The Ukraine revolution is the first shot.

I have always said that these events are beyond Russia's expectations. Russia has been forced to react and defend itself.

It is a fact that an adversarial Ukraine is not workable for Russia. The long border, the family and economic connections etc. are factors that Russia simply cannot overcome. There is no option for Russia but to militarily change the situation in its favour.

Russia wouldnt directly take on NATO thus the reason they use subterfuge in Ukraine for example.But reality is NATO could deploy more troops than Russia could handle meaning this would have to go nuclear for Russia to survive. So lets hope these two dont start a real shooting war.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: GargIndia

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: GargIndia
I want to ask a question: what can Latvia or Estonia do against Russia realistically??

Any intelligent answer is welcome.

I can offer you some clue - even if NATO forces are stationed in these two countries, such forces will be sitting ducks to Russian artillery fire in case of war. No airfield will survive beyond the first day of war.

Just the fact you think artillery is effective shows how little you understand about modern combat. Artillery gets wiped out after first shot its fired. Western countries have these neat devices that determine the exact position of the artillery and launch a missile before the first round even lands. You have to realize Russian military is at least 30 years behind NATO. This is why Putin was paying the west for military equipment.

Russian artillery is no threat and even 1000 quick reaction force can take on a Russian advance od ten times that number and win. Russias only fall back is they can threaten with nukes which they are doing alot lately. But even there options are limited for Putin.

Russia has fought several conflicts since end of cold war - one with Georgia some time back and this one with Ukraine ongoing. Can you tell me in this context how your devices work?

I know far more about military technology than you do.

You are just a yes man of jingoists. Don't get inflated ego.

Radar tracks and plots incoming projectiles once a track is received counter battery fire can be conducted. This can be missiles or helos like the cobra or for that matter return artillery fire and air craft. Bottom line les than a minute to return fire depending on whats on station. NATO has been practicing this for years meaning Russian artillery would have a life expectancy of minutes. This is even used to counter mortar fire and you know how quickly they can be moved.

Your view is too optimistic. As if Russia does not have artillery finding radars or that it will let Helos fly around as referees. Also in Russia's case be prepared to lose the satellites that allow data links between this or that. Talk about a scenario where there are no drones to fire hellfire missiles, cruise missiles subdued mostly, even flying squadrons are not able to exchange encrypted messages etc. Satellites will be the first item taken out on both sides.

A self propelled artillery gun can fire 3 rounds in 14 seconds and make a move. Counter fire will mostly go a waste. Try to see yourself how far you can go in 30 seconds at 40 kmph.