Russia targets the Baltic states, NATO warns Russia (round 2)

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: MrSpad

One has to wonder if Bush Jr. had not foolishy invaded Iraq and still had the international and political capital he needed when Russia invaded Georgia if Russia could have been dealt with then.

More than likely, but it would come with a large loss for both sides.

I do not mean direct militarty internvention but, instead santions on the level we have today. Russia's military was a complete mess in Georgia if you ad in harsh santions on top of that it is not likely Russia would have moved against Ukraine. Putin is not stupid he knows he can not win a direct military conflict so he works the fringes just far enough not provoke things farther that he assumes they will go.

While Russia or any country or any ethinic group should stand up and provide voice to people of its ethnicity or commonality...........but it makes no sense for Kremlin to play "little green men" theater in the NATO nations.

I do not think NATO will tolerate that and geopolitical tensions can rise to extreme levels.

Until and unless, there is outright violence, discrimination, oppression, subjugation type scenario, matters should be handled via diplomatic and cordial means.

originally posted by: whywhynot
a reply to: Xcathdra

Russia and every other bad player in the world know that they will never have a US President less willing to confront them than now. The final 2 years of his presidency is the window that they have and they most likely will take advantage of it.

If it were to McCain or Romney, US would still be in Iraq and would be far from making exit preps from Afghanistan.

I admire the pacifist "end the wars" policies of Obama. That does lots of good to the society and economy.

However, items like Arab Spring and now Ukraine Maidan etc. prove that Obama does want to poke the US nose into the other nations affairs but does not want to fight any war in the process.

End of it all, Obama has been very wise to NOT raise tensions with Russia on NATO expansion eastwards. Even under Reagan or Nixon type hardliners, Russians will go and fight war with anyone.............to keep their "near abroad" out of NATO alliance.

Future presidents in DC should take a note of that fact and be wise.

It's Good European/western propaganda I guess. I 'd like to hear what kind of propaganda the Russians are spreading too.

We need some information from neutral sources....if they actually exist.

originally posted by: rickymouse
It's Good European/western propaganda I guess. I 'd like to hear what kind of propaganda the Russians are spreading too.

We need some information from neutral sources....if they actually exist.

learn to look at the politics being played out in the media.

Russia knows it has leverage because of the gas needs of Europe.

Threatening with uprises because of lots of ethnic Russians in a country is also one. This was just another pawn move by Russia to get as much out of leverage it has.

Poroshenko being scared of Russia overrunning the Ukraine militarily is also being played with Poroshenko agreeing on great deal of autonomy for Eastern Ukraine. Poroshenko has put himself in a difficult spot because of that, regarding the opposition by some groups in the Ukraine to that move.

Interesting to watch on how that`s going to be played out this winter.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Poroshenko agreeing on great deal of autonomy for Eastern Ukraine.

www.liveleak.com...

The plan of Porky Poro gives a special status to DPR and LPR for 3 years. No federalization or political autonomy. That plan is a joke.

After killing so many civilians and bombing the infrastructure, Porky should forget about any negotiations.

NovoRossiya will be an independent state. Junta in Kiev is wasting its efforts for nothing.

Heres a wild theory I just came up with.....

What if, the ISIS threat is an excuse to co-ordinate a large internation coalition, pour huge amounts of troops and equipment into Iraq, so that Iraq become the "forward operating base" for an upcoming invasion of Russia?

From Iraq, the coalition will pour northwards, and Eastwards from Europe.

Even thou Putin would be wary of any international military buildup in Iraq, I doubt he would expect the real aim to be Russia.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Im really beginning to think Putin has lost his damn mind. Hes going to trigger a war he cant win and end up with Russia being decimated hes going to find How the 28 members of Nato can coordinate a huge attack if hes not careful. Because even his nukes arent the threat he appears to believe they are.In fact NATO will be redeploying to the Russian border will see a significant movement of troops to the border within a couple of months.They already discussed bases being created last month this quick reactionary force will have bases and equipment already there. Land troops they are on there way within hours. Betting Szczecin becomes the major base covering baltics and poland expect a massive deployment there soon. I can not figure out why Putin is creating the exact situation he claims he doesnt want NATO troops on his border?????????

originally posted by: seabag
a reply to: Xcathdra

There is absolutely no rationale justification for Putin to be acting in the manner he is.

Sure there is…he’s KGB! He wants to take over the entire world beginning with the eastern bloc and continuing to Europe! 52% of Russia’s state budget comes from oil, and Europe is its #1 customer. This is monopoly on a grand scale and our POTUS has his thumb up his arse and is sitting on the back bench!

America always gets called out about "wars for oil" but everyone pretends Russia and others aren't doing the same thing?

NATO has been nibbling away at the old USSR empire for the past decade or too, picking off countries one by one. Now Putin is pushing back or at least creating a buffer/chaos zone.

just wondering,,
if England invades Scotland, for secceding,
i mean voting in there referendum,, cough,, cough,,
, after 300 yrs ,,

can Russia invade,,whatever Eastern part of Ukraine,,that voted for idependance from Kiev,,,

parts,,they want?

ps i know its European countries but i thought it was, good for Britian, and the E.U,, good for ALL of Europe,,that includes,,Britian i think,,,u know its E.U stuff,, gets complicated,,

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: seabag
a reply to: Xcathdra

There is absolutely no rationale justification for Putin to be acting in the manner he is.

Sure there is…he’s KGB! He wants to take over the entire world beginning with the eastern bloc and continuing to Europe! 52% of Russia’s state budget comes from oil, and Europe is its #1 customer. This is monopoly on a grand scale and our POTUS has his thumb up his arse and is sitting on the back bench!

America always gets called out about "wars for oil" but everyone pretends Russia and others aren't doing the same thing?

NATO has been nibbling away at the old USSR empire for the past decade or too, picking off countries one by one. Now Putin is pushing back or at least creating a buffer/chaos zone.

Really just curious how you think NATO did that ? See NATO accepts members meaning they have to apply for membership which involves a vote . So what im curious about i guess is how did NATO accomplish this amazing feat you claim? Now looking at it logically i can see why countries near Russia would want to join NATO since it seems like Russia has very little regard for borders or sovereignty. I think if i was a country bordering Russia id want NATO behind me as well to prevent Putin from annexing my country. I really cant believe sometimes how people can be so blind to Putins actions but than again he has one heck of a propaganda machine.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Have to side with the Russians on this one ... if you think ethnic discrimination is acceptable, your an A-ho.

The problem here, isn't the Russians. The problem here is western society, that allows discrimination and by doing that ... gives the Russians the excuse they want.

a reply to: bjarneorn

Have to side with the Russians on this one ... if you think ethnic discrimination is acceptable, your an A-ho.

First off when he used that excuse to go into Ukraine when he was asked for evidence he could never provide it, but that didn't stop him as he doesn't care about the people he is just looking for a way to create the New Russia.

Which btw is the old Russia before it fell. And now that Ukraine didn't happen as he wanted, it's time to look towards smaller countries that are easier to handle.

a reply to: bjarneorn

The problem here, isn't the Russians. The problem here is western society, that allows discrimination and by doing that ... gives the Russians the excuse they want.

No the problem is Russia and Putin thinking he can lie his way into invading another country.

originally posted by: bjarneorn
a reply to: Xcathdra

Have to side with the Russians on this one ... if you think ethnic discrimination is acceptable, your an A-ho.

How is that forced relocation of Tartar's from Crimea going for Putin?
How many gay people have been arrested and charged in Russia for just being gay?
By all means please explain to us how Chechen's are treated...
Maybe we can dissect the slogan Russia for Russians...
Or the extrajudicial killings of those who dont support Russia in the South and East of Ukraine and Crimea.


All of which you support by supporting Putin / Russia.

You should be careful throwing your rocks in your glass house.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
First off when he used that excuse to go into Ukraine when he was asked for evidence he could never provide it, but that didn't stop him as he doesn't care about the people he is just looking for a way to create the New Russia.

Of course he provided it, he provided the evidence in a million refugees and tens of thousands of dead civilians ... the problem was, you just didn't want to see it. It never got reported in western media. He also deliberately "created" evidence, by sending non-combatant boys into Ukraine, that got arrested and some murdered. The murder part, is all the excuse he needed ... that was the declaration of war.

Which show, YOU are the problem ... you aren't objective. And that is the problem, not the Russians.

I think Russia is warning NATO that if it believes it can keep creating problems for Russian Economy and EU economy, that Russia can destabilize other countries too.

This is showing of teeth, and I agree with Russia.

We had enough of world leadership by United States megalomaniacs and skull&Bones members.

This is the age of BRICS

just wait till petrodollar is taken out, then the American people will take out their own government because standard of living will go down 70% sharply

I will be watching it on TV and laughing at overweight people running and fighting. Within 2 years, everyone will have muscle tones.

Don't scold me for this post, I am being little bit funny, little bit serious

I get the feeling US and NATO are angry because they are tasting their own medicine.

They go around subverting, bombing, killing. But they hit a wall with Russia, they can't bomb Russia, they can't do squat.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
How is that forced relocation of Tartar's from Crimea going for Putin?
How many gay people have been arrested and charged in Russia for just being gay?

I agree with you here ... but this isn't the Ukraine problem. This is an entirely different situation ... and to be honest, I don't think Putin is going to stay in power for long. But whatever Putin does, does not excuse or justify neo-nazis in Ukraine. It just doesn't ... one must be viewed, separate from the other.

Let's hope that Russians will put a balance into their power structure, soon.

I welcome Russian concerns about discrimination of russian-speaking population in Baltic states, particularly in Latvia and Estonia. Since those states gained independence they introduced discriminating laws of citizenship.
I respect the right of those nations to self determination, but the rights of russian "alien citizens" need to be rectified.
If EU doesn't care, someone finally should raise those issues and it is naturally that it will be Russia who is talking about this ongoing discrimination.

"Alien citizens" that I'm speaking about

With regard to international law, non-citizens are not considered stateless by the EU Network of Independent Experts on Fundamental Rights, which notes:

... in Latvia, non-citizens under the 1995 Law on Status of citizens of the former USSR who are not citizens of Latvia or any other country are neither citizens, nor foreigners, nor stateless persons. A great proportion of the large Russian speaking population of the country falls within this category, unknown in public international law. The same applies to non-citizens in Estonia.[6]

wikipedia en.wikipedia.org...(Latvia)

Apart from initial deprivation of russian-speaking minority from full citizenship there is also continuous ongoing discriminatory policy about using Russian language in businesses and schools.
www.euroviews.eu...

Nearly 30 per cent of the population in Latvia is ethnically Russian and even a higher percentage speaks Russian as their mother tongue. In big cities like Riga (almost 50 per cent Russian speakers) and Daugavpils (almost 80 per cent Russian speakers) these numbers are even higher.

Many of them go to minority or so called Russian language schools. Today’s education law thereby states that 60 per cent of all classes have to be conducted in Latvian and 40 per cent can be conducted in any other minority language, such as Russian.

However, the government wants to change this as there are still many ethnic Russians who only speak Russian and don’t speak Latvian. According to the coalition agreement, starting from 2018, state-funded minority schools should switch to education in Latvian only, except for the minority language classes and ethnic culture subjects.

In 2012, more than 1,000 people were fined in Latvia for breaking "language norms," with 53 percent of them fined for failing to speak Latvian at work, said Anton Kursitis of the State Language Center.

Teachers in schools can be fined if found guilty that they speak more % in russian language than prescribed in laws.

The protest last Thursday has been the third one since Prime Minister Laimdota Straujuma made a statement in January that Latvia will switch to state-funded education exclusively in Latvian “sooner or later.” Meanwhile, Russia has critisised Latvia several times for the ‘discriminative’ treatment of the country’s Russian speaking population. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov recently said his country wants to open special Russian schools in Latvia.

According to education minister Druviete this, however, would be “unacceptable”.

I can add that even in Israel there is no such discrimination about primary education in Arabic language. And if Israel will adopt policies like Latvia,I think, there would be world wide condemnation from all countries including USA.



About Latvian Legion Day I will cite official position of some European politicians.

On 21 February 2012 The Council of Europe’s Commission against Racism and Intolerance published its report on Latvia (fourth monitoring cycle), in which it condemned commemorations of persons who fought in the Waffen SS and collaborated with the Nazis.[27] ECRI expressed concerns as regards to the authorisation of a gathering, commemorating soldiers who had fought in a Latvian unit of the Waffen SS, that takes place every year on 16 March and is held in the centre of Riga, and expressed dismay at the authorisation by the competent courts of an event set to celebrate the Nazi occupation of Riga (on 1 July).[28] It also expressed concern, that the former Minister of Foreign Affairs had not condemned the march, and on the contrary, supported it.[29] ECRI recommended, that “the Latvian authorities condemn all attempts to commemorate persons who fought in the Waffen SS and collaborated with the Nazis. ECRI further recommends that the authorities ban any gathering or march legitimising in any way Nazism.”[30] On 13 March 2014, UK MEP Richard Howitt, a spokesperson for the European Parliament Human Rights Sub-Committee issued a statement that included the view that "Whether local boys were forced to don the SS uniforms or were eager volunteers, celebration of their actions not only insults the memory of the victims but also honours Nazism itself."[31] On his own website, MEP Howitt, citing the Waffen SS marches, criticized the UK Conservative Party for its alliance with nationalist elements in the Latvian government.[32]
en.wikipedia.org...

So it is acceptable when western organizations issuing their reservations about such "honouring marches", but it is viewed as Russian aggressiveness when Russia makes similar notes.