Russia targets the Baltic states, NATO warns Russia (round 2)

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Have another drink of Kool-Ade.

Edit to add: Why didn't you respond to my hypothetical? Would it be okay for Pakistan to annex Kashmir?

Kashmir isn`t Crimea and a whole different kind of situation, so it`s stupid to come u with such analogy.

You seem to be particulate proud on those stupid analogies and think of them as looking intellectual...I don`t responds on every stupid thing I read, some things are just so much IQ lowering I just pass on them.

In other words, it's okay for Russia to do things that would be wrong for other countries to do. Why? Because anything Russia does is some blow against the evil "West?"

Russia was forced by The West while they didn`t wanted to do it, remember the memo of William J. Burns ?

Link

So start talking about the actual cause of it all for once, instead of just trying to make it look like it was Putin his wrong doing.

Please explain what you have against Putin that you want to pin him down on things which he didn`t even started?

And don`t come up with the usual crap about him, are you some kind of political opponent who has been jailed by him previously and has fled to the US, or has he killed family members of you or something ?

It sure can`t be alone frustration about US not being seen as the greatest country in The World anymore and being jealous about Russia having a leader which seem to be more admirable by some as the US have ?

So what`s your deal with it all ?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Russia was forced by The West while they didn`t wanted to do it, remember the memo of William J. Burns ?

Link

The memo that proved that Ukraine's desire to join NATO was rebuffed for fear of displeasing Russia? You still don't understand that this cable completely exonerates the US in this matter.

So start talking about the actual cause of it all for once, instead of just trying to make it look like it was Putin his wrong doing.

The actual case is that Putin ordered Russian troops into Crimea while it was still legally part of Ukraine. This strongly suggests that all the violent events leading to this "necessary intervention" had been stage managed by Putin's order.

Please explain what you have against Putin that you want to pin him down on things which he didn`t even started?

Putin has been systematically stripping the Russian people of their rights. He has organized the country like a criminal syndicate and uses deadly, extra-legal force to maintain his power. Now, he is violating European political practice by annexing land by force. This is an act of war. Feel free to say that European standards are decadent, and that conquest by the strong is the natural order of things, but don't delude yourself into thinking that Putin's aggression is legal, justified or necessary.

And don`t come up with the usual crap about him, are you some kind of political opponent who has been jailed by him previously and has fled to the US, or has he killed family members of you or something ?

As a matter of fact, I have friends relatives both in Ukraine and Russia. I know they do not support Putin, so, yes, their lives may be in danger. At least you recognize that about Putin.

It sure can`t be alone frustration about US not being seen as the greatest country in The World anymore and being jealous about Russia having a leader which seem to be more admirable by some as the US have ?

If America had a leader like Putin, Canada and Mexico would not be safe.

So what`s your deal with it all ?

I have explained myself several times. Why do you support that gangster Putin and his criminal war mongering?

a reply to: DJW001

As a matter of fact, I have friends relatives both in Ukraine and Russia. I know they do not support Putin, so, yes, their lives may be in danger. At least you recognize that about Putin.

That explains a lot, but not all.

Are you actual trying to pin stuff deliberately on him because of that ?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: DJW001

As a matter of fact, I have friends relatives both in Ukraine and Russia. I know they do not support Putin, so, yes, their lives may be in danger. At least you recognize that about Putin.

Just disagreeing with Putin does not make your relatives lives in danger.

A lot of people disagree with Putin and I haven't seen these being stuffed in jail.

Calling names publically is a different issue. Russia is facing a lot of economic and military pressure and it is logical for the government to expect people to pull together.

a reply to: DJW001

Ukraine joining EU and Ukraine joining NATO are two different issues.

If India faced a similar situation as Russia, I am sure Indian reaction would have been extreme too.

NATO is a military grouping that has always been hostile to Russia. The small period of cooperation that existed is just eye-wash.

While you may see NATO as benign, we see NATO as the major cause of wars in the world.

a reply to: GargIndia

Just disagreeing with Putin does not make your relatives lives in danger.

It does if they speak loudly enough.

A lot of people disagree with Putin and I haven't seen these being stuffed in jail.

Only enough to make a point.

Calling names publically is a different issue. Russia is facing a lot of economic and military pressure and it is logical for the government to expect people to pull together.

Putin wants to drive them with a whip, like the good old days of Czarist Russia.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Are you actual trying to pin stuff deliberately on him because of that ?

Read the above post and remember that Putin himself admits that he was a Leningrad street thug until he discovered the discipline of Judo and was recruited and trained by the KGB. He is a self proclaimed master of deception and manipulation.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Are you actual trying to pin stuff deliberately on him because of that ?

Read the above post and remember that Putin himself admits that he was a Leningrad street thug until he discovered the discipline of Judo and was recruited and trained by the KGB. He is a self proclaimed master of deception and manipulation.

That was not my question, I only asked if you deliberately pin stuff on him because of your opinion of him ?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

That was not my question, I only asked if you deliberately pin stuff on him because of your opinion of him ?

I do not "pin things on him." My opinion of him is based on the things he has done, like murdering journalists, imprisoning political rivals and killing innocent hostages along with the terrorists holding them. He is ruthless, and capable of anything. Given all that, why do you have such a hard time looking at the facts and seeing the strategy they reveal?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

That was not my question, I only asked if you deliberately pin stuff on him because of your opinion of him ?

I do not "pin things on him." My opinion of him is based on the things he has done, like murdering journalists, imprisoning political rivals and killing innocent hostages along with the terrorists holding them. He is ruthless, and capable of anything. Given all that, why do you have such a hard time looking at the facts and seeing the strategy they reveal?

So why with all the evidence presented to you about The West being behind the Ukrainian mess you still wanting to try to pin it to Putin ?

You say you`re not pinning stuff on him, but yet you`re are doing it by trying to make it look he was the instigator of the whole Ukrainian mess.

There has been enough proof given which can only lead to one logical conclusion about The West being behind it, but still you won`t admit it and try to pin it on him. And that can only lead to one other logical conclusion, you actual do try to pin stuff deliberately.

So why say you don`t ?

The answer now is finally clear, you had an agenda.

Funny that you were accusing people all over the place of having some kind of pro-Russian agenda while you were the one who actual had one.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So why with all the evidence presented to you about The West being behind the Ukrainian mess you still wanting to try to pin it to Putin ?

Because no-one could find any actual evidence. It was all tape recordings of people sharing rumors, or tape recordings of people speculating about who they would like to see in government, and those choices did not win.

You say you`re not pinning stuff on him, but yet you`re are doing it by trying to make it look he was the instigator of the whole Ukrainian mess.

There is absolutely no doubt that Putin sent armed Russian troops into the streets of Crimea before Crimea "voted" to leave Ukraine. Putin admits as much, but claims he was "forced to" by the events in Kyiv and Odessa. What better way to justify an invasion than to create an artificial crisis? It is exactly what Hitler did three quarters of a century ago, and I see no reason to think Putin is any less cunning than Hitler was.

There has been enough proof given which can only lead to one logical conclusion about The West being behind it, but still you won`t admit it and try to pin it on him.

What part of rumors, innuendos and lies are not proof do you not understand? You yourself have read the leaked cable that made it clear that the United States did not want to admit Ukraine to NATO, yet you keep swallowing the lie about "NATO expansion." If it was a plot by NATO to justify putting NATO troops in Ukraine where are they?

And that can only lead to one other logical conclusion, you actual do try to pin stuff deliberately.

You have repeatedly demonstrated your inability to reason logically.

So why say you don`t ?

Because I don't. I use the facts of Putin's previous actions to analyze the present situation. You refuse to accept his murderous past, his habitual deception, his ruthless wars against Chechniya, his stifling of free speech, subversion of the political process in Russia... you seem to think he's just an all around nice guy whom Russia is just lucky to have as its absolute uncontested leader.

The answer now is finally clear, you had an agenda.

Yes! Absolutely I have an agenda! I want people to wake up! Deny ignorance! Russia's state media is pouring poison into your mind. Seek out the truth. Kyiv is running its own disinformation campaign, too, of course, but they're not the ones violating the Westphalian system, Russia is...and if it discards the unofficial rules in its near abroad, it will violate them anywhere.

Funny that you were accusing people all over the place of having some kind of pro-Russian agenda while you were the one who actual had one.

Pity that you still don't understand my agenda. Please help me understand yours. Why are you supporting aggression on the part of a ruthless dictator?

originally posted by: DJW001
Because no-one could find any actual evidence. It was all tape recordings of people sharing rumors, or tape recordings of people speculating about who they would like to see in government, and those choices did not win.

Apparently recorded phone conversations that work against the EU are taken at face value while information that works against Pro Russians / Russia is ignored.

If he didnt apply the double standard like he is then one can argue the recorded conversations between Rebels and Moscow on the shoot down of MH17 are just as valid.

a reply to: Xcathdra
Don't forget the facebook and twitter posts boasting about rebel "victories." You need to be very selective when it comes to "evidence."

a reply to: DJW001

Come on man...

- It was Victoria Nuland actual saying who she thinks should go in the government and how the government should look like

- It was a memo from the American Russian ambassador about Russia not wanting to have trouble in the Ukraine

- It was US sending lots of money to Ukraine even before the troubles to spread democracy

- It was Western politicians who were supporting an illegal presidency

- It was The West sending in money so Ukraine was able to continue fighting

- It was the son of Biden who was gearing up for Eastern- Ukrainian shale gas

- It was The West who send in advisers to help out Ukraine with the war

- It was The West who kept its mouth shut about the crimes against humanity when they were taking place

- It was The West who started economic warfare against Russia and not against the Ukraine

- It was Poroshenko who`s a Western buddy

And with all these facts you still won`t acknowledge it was The West who was behind it all ?

So either you`re dumb or you want deliberately to make Putin look bad ?

And I don`t think you`re so dumb as to not being able to get a clear picture about it all with these facts.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

It was Putin invading Ukraine.
It was Putin annexing Crimea.
It was Putin providing arms to the pro russians.
It was Putin providing heavy military equipment to Pro Russian rebels.
It was Putin who coordinated the russian armed forces and the pro russian rebels.
It was Putin who allowed Russian military units to cross into Ukraine to support his failed uprising.
It was Russia and the Rebels who coordinated the shootdown of MH 17.
It was Pro Russians / Russian who claimed they shot it down up to the point they found out they downed a civilian airliner.
It was Putin who locked down Russian media to push his propaganda on Ukraine.

Putin has consistently lied since before this mess started and is continuing to do so.

Yes - the mess in Ukraine can be laid directly at Putin's doorstep because he is the one who created it all.

a reply to: Xcathdra

And what`s your actual drive to why you want to keep pinning it all on Putin while the facts now clearly have proved otherwise ?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcathdra

And what`s your actual drive to why you want to keep pinning it all on Putin while the facts now clearly have proved otherwise ?

Because the facts show Putin is responsible.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcathdra

And what`s your actual drive to why you want to keep pinning it all on Putin while the facts now clearly have proved otherwise ?

Because the facts show Putin is responsible.

DJW001 had actual a reason, so with you it`s just...

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

- It was Victoria Nuland actual saying who she thinks should go in the government and how the government should look like

And the government did not end up looking like that, proving that she was not in control!

- It was a memo from the American Russian ambassador about Russia not wanting to have trouble in the Ukraine

Proving that Putin's supporters' allegations that NATO wanted Ukraine to join are lies!

- It was US sending lots of money to Ukraine even before the troubles to spread democracy

Why does Putin find democracy so threatening? Remember, the Russian constitution does not allow a President to serve for three consecutive terms, yet somehow he is in his third term....

- It was Western politicians who were supporting an illegal presidency

It was not illegal. Yanukovytch abandoned his duty. The parliament had to improvise a solution.

- It was The West sending in money so Ukraine was able to continue fighting

Why shouldn't Ukraine fight Russian aggression?

- It was the son of Biden who was gearing up for Eastern- Ukrainian shale gas

So what? That doesn't hurt anyone but his competitors.

- It was The West who send in advisers to help out Ukraine with the war

What is wrong with supporting a legitimate government.

- It was The West who kept its mouth shut about the crimes against humanity when they were taking place

Amnesty International and the OSCE continue to report on atrocities by both sides. Meanwhile, RT covers up crimes by separatists iin East Ukraine and Cossacks in Crimea.

- It was The West who started economic warfare against Russia and not against the Ukraine

Why should the West impose sanctions on Ukraine? Russia is the aggressor.

- It was Poroshenko who`s a Western buddy

You seem to think that anyone sympathetic to the West is evil. Doesn't that strike you as being just the least bit prejudiced?

And with all these facts you still won`t acknowledge it was The West who was behind it all ?

What, exactly has the West gained? Nothing. What has Putin gained? Crimea. And yet you still won't acknowledge that Putin is behind it all.

So either you`re dumb or you want deliberately to make Putin look bad ?

No, you are brainwashed and refuse to open your eyes.

And I don`t think you`re so dumb as to not being able to get a clear picture about it all with these facts.

Let me be blunt: if you hate America and NATO so much, who would you prefer to have won WWII?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Crimean population staging large demonstration against Kiev regime in February 2014, this happened 2-3 weeks before referendum.

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They organized self defense forces on this mitings, last youtube video from January 2014 stop Maidan youtu.be... in Sevastopol
Stop Maidan from Crimea going to Kiev youtu.be...



Reaction of Crimea after referendum youtu.be... , massive demonstration


Victory Day 2014 , Putin speaking with veterans of ww2 in Sevastopol. youtu.be...