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Russia targets the Baltic states, NATO warns Russia (round 2)

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posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




US wanted Ukraine to become a member and now have an excuse, have you actual read what I wrote in my post, "possible NATO membership in the future?"...and Russia has warned about not doing that, so if the West is stupid enough to still go on with it later on, you can expect fireworks then.


Yes it does, but you just seem to leave that out, because it sounded more conspiratorial your way.

And you do understand that Ukraine wanted to be part of NATO, and the US told them they back that decision but the US didn't push Ukraine towards NATO.


Ukraine has had a partnership with NATO since the 1990s, sending troops to work with the alliance in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the nature of the partnership remained loose. President Viktor Yushchenko hoped to change that. He had been swept to power during the 2004-2005 Orange Revolution, protests that were prompted by reports of electoral fraud. Yushchenko promised the protesters a future that did away with Ukraine's corrupt, Kremlin-dominated past. Much like Georgia, another former Soviet state seeking to shake off Russian influence, Ukraine saw NATO membership as one route to independence and sought membership in 2008.


www.washingtonpost.com...

And yet that little bit of info seems to get missed by some...I wonder why?

And the funniest thing is Russia had, and still has no right to dictate who a sovereign nation deals with whether it be NATO, or the EU.




posted on Oct, 7 2014 @ 03:57 PM
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a reply to: victor7




Russia and China are regional powers. Russia is more busy fending off the NATO encroachment on its borders and resulting geopolitical insecurities.


And you do understand that if those countries bordering Russia weren't so scared of Russia deciding to pull a Ukraine on them, Russia wouldn't have to worry about NATO near their borders.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 03:41 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

NO. The smaller states always seek association with larger states as they feel vulnerable. There have been no significant incidents since the fall of USSR that caused these States to join NATO.

Expansion of NATO is West's policy.

edit on 9-10-2014 by GargIndia because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 05:06 AM
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a reply to: GargIndia


NO. The smaller states always seek association with larger states as they feel vulnerable. There have been no significant incidents since the fall of USSR that caused these States to join NATO.

Expansion of NATO is West's policy.


NO. The smaller states always seek association with larger states as they feel vulnerable.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 06:53 AM
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originally posted by: GargIndia There have been no significant incidents since the fall of USSR that caused these States to join NATO.


The collapse of the Soviet Union, and the opportunity for nations occupied by the USSR, was the significant event that caused those former SSR's to join NATO / EU.

No amount of blame is going to change the fact Putin tried for a land grab and got called out by Ukraine. Everything occurring since the Russian invasion of Ukraine is solely the fault of Putin.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




Everything occurring since the Russian invasion of Ukraine is solely the fault of Putin.


Everything that is happening in Ukraine is the fault of the Right Wing elements like Svoboda and Right Sector. These elements are the reason why Yanukovich fled, Junta came to power and chain reactions followed.

Putin is just reacting in order to safeguard Russian interests. In next two weeks, we will find out what is his next move.

Btw, US mentioned that they might give lethal weapons to Junta forces. In that event, be ready for Russia to give much more lethal stuff to Iran, Syria, Lebanan and many others. How about 10 kgs of "already" enriched uranium to Iran. It will be the "plug and play and it's nukes away" scenario that US will really regret to have provoked.




posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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War is coming and we all know it. The sabre-rattling is getting louder and louder. The concept was in place with the introduction of world war one. It's all scripted in my opinion. All the world is a stage.

Make plans to weather the storm is all the advice I can give you.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: GargIndia There have been no significant incidents since the fall of USSR that caused these States to join NATO.


The collapse of the Soviet Union, and the opportunity for nations occupied by the USSR, was the significant event that caused those former SSR's to join NATO / EU.

No amount of blame is going to change the fact Putin tried for a land grab and got called out by Ukraine. Everything occurring since the Russian invasion of Ukraine is solely the fault of Putin.




How do you spell imperialism? "U-S-A".

Forget about logic,meaning of words and just about everything you know.
The revolution is coming,our brains are going to be put into a blender, and the collective mind is going to meet new depths of stupidity. It's a terrible time to be young, i wish i was 90 years old so i could die anytime now and avoid witnessing the complete destruction of humanity to give way to this new race, whatever you want to call it.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Another reference to Hitler. What about Dubya and Obama's jumping the gun with regards to Iraq, Syria and Libya. The destabilisation of Russia has been a goal of Washington's for quite some time. The missile "defence" shield planned for the whole eastern border of Europe would be enough to get any country riled up, but Putin has handled it all very well and diplomatically. When you have a look at Senate Bill 2277, it gives clear insight into the intent of the US. At least the mentality anyway. Coupled with the interference, yet again, into Ukraine by the US, as well as the hideously unsuccessful attempts by Kiev and Washington into pinning unsubstantiated claims against Russia - MH17, the "destruction of Russian tank columns" invading Ukraine by the military - none of which have any ounce of evidence, never mind proof, surely you can see what is really going on here. Invading countries, toppling governments and putting puppets in place is no different than going in and taking over. It is like a franchise. I would say that Obama, and other presidents are more like Hitler. The US has egg on its face because Putin averted yet another failed US invasion. The US military cannot handle another war, so what does it do? It completely turns the EU economy on its head through pointless sanctions and gets NATO to do its dirty work. Russia would crush NATO. The US is the one orchestrating the next world war. Not Putin. The region has been thrown into chaos through US aggressive foreign policy and split the world even more. The US should have ensured it had better capabilities in place before acting on a whim. This post reeks of cognitive dissonance.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Nonsense. NATO was set up as a counter measure to The Warsaw Pact. After the collapse of the USSR, NATO said it would not expand. What happened? We all know. To move towards a more peaceful hemisphere, NATO should have disbanded. You must surely know that the US military industrial complex is the most aggressive group in world history. How many wars has the US been involved in since 1945? How about Russia? Ok, let's be fair. Since 1991. During the 90's, when Russia was going through one of the most awful times in its history, apart from the failed Nazi invasion, there were no problems with Russia. In fact, relations were very warm. But Russia was weak. It ended up in debt to the IMF but cleared that debt. How dare they pay back their loans? Now Russia is getting more powerful economically, and Europe is relying on trade with Russia instead of the US, Putin and Russia must be demonised...again. You know, it is a sad day when Putin is doing more to stop the US going to war than Obama is doing. Russia was never the threat. The wolf in sheep's clothing is the threat.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ukraine cannot become a member of NATO due to it having an active land dispute within its borders. To join NATO it must give up any claim to Crimea.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 07:52 PM
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originally posted by: itchy_tartan_blanket
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ukraine cannot become a member of NATO due to it having an active land dispute within its borders. To join NATO it must give up any claim to Crimea.


Crimea is recognized as being a part of Ukraine, not Russia. Ukraine does not have to give up its "claim". Research Turkey and Greece, the UK and Spain for further explanations / examples.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: itchy_tartan_blanket

Destabilization of Russia was never a goal thats just a lie. Truth is the US pumped millions into the Russian economy instead of letting it collapse. If they wanted to destroy Russia they could have easily by doing nothing. Instead they gave money set up international banking gave access to IMF set up treaties joint exercises gave them office's in NATO headquarters. Even had Russians participating with NORAD in joint excersizes. Reality is Putin needed a fall guy so no one would notice he was setting up a dictatorship. He has removed most of the freedoms they gained but is trying to distract the Russian people witha fake conflict hoping they wont notice until its to late much like Hitler did in Germany.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 08:13 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: GargIndia There have been no significant incidents since the fall of USSR that caused these States to join NATO.


The collapse of the Soviet Union, and the opportunity for nations occupied by the USSR, was the significant event that caused those former SSR's to join NATO / EU.

No amount of blame is going to change the fact Putin tried for a land grab and got called out by Ukraine. Everything occurring since the Russian invasion of Ukraine is solely the fault of Putin.


This is the narrative you are trying to push.

Your narrative is simply WRONG.

However digging history will not make the future better. The readers are looking for clues to the future, not what happened in the past.

The relations between Ukraine and Russia is a complex issue that cannot be understood in words like "land grab".

The thick propaganda put by the West along with military actions will only result in war, not peace.

I still advise Ukrainians to get some brains. They cannot defeat Russia. They have made their country a battleground where economic opportunity will disappear and social tensions will reign supreme.

Russia will not let NATO come to Ukraine at any cost.

The Baltic states have become hotbeds of anti-Russia activities.

Only NATO may know the military utility of Baltic states. However any serious trouble from these States now can cause a nuclear war very quickly, these States being NATO members.


edit on 9-10-2014 by GargIndia because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 08:22 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: itchy_tartan_blanket

Destabilization of Russia was never a goal thats just a lie. Truth is the US pumped millions into the Russian economy instead of letting it collapse. If they wanted to destroy Russia they could have easily by doing nothing. Instead they gave money set up international banking gave access to IMF set up treaties joint exercises gave them office's in NATO headquarters. Even had Russians participating with NORAD in joint excersizes. Reality is Putin needed a fall guy so no one would notice he was setting up a dictatorship. He has removed most of the freedoms they gained but is trying to distract the Russian people witha fake conflict hoping they wont notice until its to late much like Hitler did in Germany.


The intentions matter my friend. The above is all superficial ways to fool Russian public. The only real intention was to milk Russia's natural resources.

Can you convert the above paragraph you wrote into hard numbers? How much Russia gained from West and how much West gained from Russia - we shall compare?



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: GargIndia

Russia needs to send the feelers to Junta that soon they will lose 80% of what they call Ukraine today. Until they get the fear of that massive a loss, they will not come to their senses.

Ceasefire of September was a betrayal and soon that has to be undone.




posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 08:42 PM
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a reply to: GargIndia

Actually no, I am correct.

Former SSR's were invited to join NATO and they did as a way to safeguard their national security from Russia. A point that has been proven with Russia's invasion of Georgia and Ukraine, in addition to their occupation of provinces in Moldova (which is considering NATO membership).

Brush up on your history.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 09:04 PM
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originally posted by: GargIndia
Can you convert the above paragraph you wrote into hard numbers? How much Russia gained from West and how much West gained from Russia - we shall compare?


* - USAID - Russia overview
* - USAID-Russia - Fact Sheet

The listing below is only a few of the many issues the US / USNGO's have done to assist Russia. The list is from USAID and represents only 1 NGO assistance to Russia.


  • USAID’s child welfare program has provided over 80,000 at-risk children and their parents with innovative services designed to reduce abandonment, resulting in a 33% increase in family reunification and an 85% increase in the number of foster families in target regions.
  • USAID-supported projects helped introduce internationally recognized approaches in diagnostics and treatment of tuberculosis enabling the national TB program to decrease transmission and improve treatment success rates. Russia ranks 11th among 22 highest TB burden countries and the third among priority multi-drug resistant (MDR) and extensively drug resistant (XDR) TB countries worldwide.
  • USAID-funded Rule of Law implementers helped draft the Russian Constitution, Part I of the Russian Civil Code, and the Russian Tax Code.
  • USAID assistance led directly to the adoption of the 2001 Land Code which provided the right to buy, sell, and own urban and rural land in Russia.
  • Since 2001, the Government of Russia and the World Bank collaborated to implement two multi-billion-dollar judicial reform programs. These programs were built on models and best practices introduced to Russia by USAID programs in 1992-2008, which were related to improvements in court administration, justices of the peace, and jury trials. Russia increased its court administration budget thirty-three times between 2001 and 2010. The number of judges and their salaries were increased as well. Justices of the Peace and jury trials were reintroduced into the Russian justice system.
  • The U.S. Russia Investment Fund (TUSRIF), founded with a 1995 grant of $329 million from the US Government, promoted the development of a free market economy in Russia by providing investment capital to well-conceived, potentially high-growth entrepreneurial companies. TUSRIF generated in excess of $350 million in investment proceeds, and attracted $1.2 billion in outside equity, debt and co-investments.
  • Through microfinance, USAID supported the development of the small business sector, which in Russia still accounts for only about 12% of the economy as compared with 50-70% of the U.S. and European economies.
  • The Russian electricity sector has successfully undergone substantial restructuring and reform since 1992. Early USAID assistance focused on restructuring and particularly the design of the future competitive electricity market. These principles and design guide today’s electricity market as implemented by the Government, the electric utility system companies and their advisors. In 2012, USAID has been helping Russia develop a smart grid and improve energy efficiency.



* - Aid to Russia
* - GWU - AMERICAN INDEPENDENT REPORT, 1992-1996 aid to Russia



US Aid to Russia - Fiscal year 2012
Economic - $339 million dollars
Military - $102 million dollars

The info above deals ONLY with US Government aid and does not include private US business involvement. The investment fund is not included in the numbers listed.

Ok.. your turn now. Russian assistance to the US please.





edit on 9-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-10-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Roughly $3B of capital is stolen from Russia each single month by corrupt people and sent to tax haven countries from where using the various methods, funds find their way into higher return and yet safer investments like western markets or the blue chips of emerging markets. $120B of Russian money is invested in UK alone. Do not have numbers on the Russian investments in US.

Money multiplier theory says that for every $1 invested into an economy the GDP grows by 3x if the money multiplier is 3. Not directly but indirectly Russia has invested a lot more in the US.

Russia has helped the US saves 10s of billions by allowing the NDN logistics network to supply the NATO troops in Afghanistan. Russia could have cut this route off creating supply choke points for troops and giving advantage to Talibian resulting in more troops required and more costs incurred to the US Treasury.

Sorry pal, geopolitical idiots in DC and Brussels badly soured the terms with the Ruskies. Arrogance and Ego come at a high price.



posted on Oct, 9 2014 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: victor7

ok.. source please.


@ the thread
Putin and Russia's Anti-Westernism


“Mediocrity knows nothing higher than itself,” wrote Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Decades later, this is an apt description of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Putin blames the West for Russia’s problems, and justifies his authoritarian crackdown with the need to protect Russia from perceived external enemies. His latest pronouncement of this view came on October 1. “We see that other countries try to use their dominant position in the global information space for reaching not only economic, but political-military aims,” he said during a Russian National Security Council meeting.

Behind Putin’s finger-pointing to the West is a conviction that active dissent in Russia, and in similar authoritarian states, cannot occur on its own. Only with outside assistance could the people rebel against the autocrat. Putin is mediocre, and cannot look beyond his authoritarian worldview. He cannot imagine that people themselves, on their own free will, would choose to organize a protest and demand an accountable government.

Indeed, Putin blamed the West for the 2004 Orange Revolution in Ukraine which sprung as a result of government corruption and brought about a democratic breakthrough. “Putin sincerely believes that ‘Orange Revolutions’ in Ukraine were instigated by the US State Department and that Kiev’s Association Agreement with the European Union is an EU conspiracy to take dominance of Ukraine,” said one Russian political analyst in September 2004, “He hates the West for it…”


Click link for remainder of article...



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