Ukrainian Su-25 warplane detected heading toward Malaysian Boeing

a reply to: rustyclutch

I would say add it.

This should not be about anyone's thunder.

a reply to: rustyclutch

I need to stress again the 'the day before' is debunked.
It really does show the previous day, i tried.
But all in all, i agree with you on most points.

Waiting for mountain of evidence from Ukraine and the US, on high and mature level of presenting.

As if it was in a Court.

a reply to: thesaneone

That is not evidence they shot the plane.

Any response to your previous, miserably failed, on topic post?

a reply to: whitepanther999

How did you try this and why didn't you make screenshots if i may ask?

Are we talking about the audiofile, or a yt vid upload?

a reply to: ScrutonEyez

I'm not expecting any intelligent response from you or the other one who claims that some of us are spreading disinfo if you kids want to stand behind the iron curtain spreading your propaganda then that's cool with me but I'm going to keep adding what I find interesting with regards to the topic.

originally posted by: ScrutonEyez
a reply to: whitepanther999

How did you try this and why didn't you make screenshots if i may ask?

Are we talking about the audiofile, or a yt vid upload?

I tried it, when saw the same debunking, didn't think i need to copy it.

YT video upload.

I don't have any other source of audio, have they provided the originals?

originally posted by: thesaneone
More evidence that the pro Russian rebels shot down the plane.
www.cnn.com...

But on June 29, rebels raided the Ukrainian army's A-1402 missile facility near Donetsk. Photographs show them examining what they found.
The Russian website Vosti ran an article the same day titled "Skies of Donetsk will be defended by surface-to-air missile system Buk."

This proves what? That they had a BUK? Ill agree with you on that. The Ukrainian government had 9 in operation around the plane crash that day. Radar and satellite from the Russians show where they were and when they were moved. Where is this BUK system the rebels got ahold of? Where is the satellite imagery of where it was located? How do we even know it was functional? Just because I own a gun doesn't mean if someone gets shot I did it. Also...the BUK system doesn't operate independently there are other vehicles required for it to work properly. They just had the part that fires the missiles. That's what I mean about the proof. All circumstancial. Nothing circumstancial about satellite images showing the movement of military assets and radar captures. How about the info from the Air Traffic Controller? Ukraine has radar. America had satellites in the area. They should be able to provide proof and not hide behind "classified" or "national security". When ever those phrases are used it's obvious the truth isn't being told.

a reply to: whitepanther999

You see, the time info we are talking about was in the audiofile.

You are talking about the claims it was uploaded to YT a day before.

Two different things. I think this was pointed out to you multiple times, yesterday.

originally posted by: ScrutonEyez
a reply to: whitepanther999

You see, the time info we are talking about was in the audiofile.

You are talking about the claims it was uploaded to YT a day before.

Two different things. I think this was pointed out to you multiple times, yesterday.

Okay, i really thought people talked about the yt video and mediainfo.

a reply to: rustyclutch

This proves what? That they had a BUK? Ill agree with you on that. The Ukrainian government had 9 in operation around the plane crash that day.

According to his logic this would be even better evidence that the Ukrainians shot it.

Right, oh, sane one?

a reply to: whitepanther999

I'm pretty sure that Russian computer experts know a thing or two. Maybe they aren't using the same thing you are to come to their conclusion.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: ScrutonEyez

I'm not expecting any intelligent response from you or the other one who claims that some of us are spreading disinfo if you kids want to stand behind the iron curtain spreading your propaganda then that's cool with me but I'm going to keep adding what I find interesting with regards to the topic.

Again off topic. You made two on topic posts and both were nonsense.

a reply to: rustyclutch

I sure hope this is true that the audio is fake!
Don't want people to suddenly jump and cry, because Russia got just one of many arguments wrong.

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: thesaneone
More evidence that the pro Russian rebels shot down the plane.
www.cnn.com...

But on June 29, rebels raided the Ukrainian army's A-1402 missile facility near Donetsk. Photographs show them examining what they found.
The Russian website Vosti ran an article the same day titled "Skies of Donetsk will be defended by surface-to-air missile system Buk."

Also...the BUK system doesn't operate independently there are other vehicles required for it to work properly. They just had the part that fires the missiles.

That's been my understanding, as well. They had non-functional battery. With that in mind, it may have been non-functional to the rebels, but I have to wonder if it could have been activated by the complimenting vehicles elsewhere. In other words, could Ukraine have activated/launched the battery from the rebel position? Anyone know?

originally posted by: whitepanther999
a reply to: rustyclutch

I sure hope this is true that the audio is fake!
Don't want people to suddenly jump and cry, because Russia got just one of many arguments wrong.

Even if the date is wrong...it's definitely made of patched up conversations. That much they can prove. So either way it's fraudulent.

a reply to: Cablespider

I only know that several BUKs can exchange info about target. So i guess that could answer...
Implying that rebels actually did try..

originally posted by: [post=18176234]rustyclutch
I know for some of the Russian Haters this is nothing more than propaganda and you will argue to your last breath that Russia or the Rebels are responsible. For the objective others....

What about those of us who are not "Russia Haters"...are "Objective"...and come to the objective conclusion that Russian backed Rebels fired the mobile, radar-guided surface to air missile (SAM) missile system (BUK) that they proudly acquired and had present in the area?

Ukrainian officials and news sites published images and footage allegedly showing the presence of at least one Buk SA-11 in a town near the crash site.

there was also evidence that the rebels had attempted to move the missile system back to Russia after the MH17 crash.

The separatists have downed about a dozen Ukrainian planes in recent months. Satellite imagery is said to show a plume of smoke that may have been the trail of the missile launched at MH17.

The rebels' stubbornness in initially thwarting full access to the site and their shoddy treatment of the crash scene and the bodies of the victims

Another recording, allegedly of a conversation between two rebel officers with the aliases "Major" and "Greek," goes into details about the circumstances of the attack. One of the rebels expresses certainty that the plane just shot down by a regiment of rebel "Cossacks" was "100 percent a civilian aircraft." He also indicates the discovery of travel documents belonging to an Indonesian college student. There were 12 Indonesian nationals aboard MH17.

In a third recording, possibly involving Nikolai Kozitsyn, a Cossack commander, the rebels express amazement that the downed craft belonged to Malaysia Airlines. "That means they were carrying spies. They shouldn't be [expletive] flying. There is a war going on," says the voice attributed to Kozitsyn.

Some rebel fighters reported shooting down a plane in the Donetsk region on Thursday, before allegedly deleting the posts when it appeared that the aircraft was a civilian jet carrying nearly 300 people. On a Russian social media page, Igor Strelkov, the acting defense minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, announced the downing of "an An-26 [a military transport plane] near Torez," alongside a video of the "bird" falling, according to the AFP.

The official Twitter account of the Donetsk People's Republic had earlier announced seizing Buk surface-to-air missile systems from a Ukrainian regiment. That tweet was deleted after the crash of MH17.

www.washingtonpost.com...

And all of that is just he BEGINING...

The rebels claimed to have recovered the Black Box...now they claim they don't have it..

On and on it goes...Their is a tonnage of OBJECTIVE evidence, hell the rebels bragged about shooting it down on Twitter and the Russian version of FB...before they realized it was a civilian plane.

Honestly...I think your OP molests the term "Objectivity".

a reply to: Cablespider

I had actually considered that angle as well. I'm not sure just how much control one can gain remotely. Definitely worth looking into.

a reply to: Indigo5

The rebels claimed to have recovered the Black Box...now they claim they don't have it..

They don't have it, black boxes were handed over to Malaysian officials.

Pay attention.


And they did shoot down an Antonov, but not that day.

It has been shown that the phonecalls were made up out of different segments. They admit to shooting a plane. They never admitted shooting a civilian plane.

I have to say though, been puzzled about the alleged tweets from day one.

a reply to: Indigo5

I won't even waste any time rebutting any of your above statements. All circumstancial evidence, spliced together conversations betweens people, bluster from politicians, and not one piece of credible intel. Utter lies and disinfo. They signed an accord with Malaysia yesterday and handed them BOTH black boxes.

Source.

The rebels claimed to have recovered the Black Box...now they claim they don't have it..

You sir are not telling the truth. Stop spreading lies and disinformation.