Satan: Humanity's Hero

Wow! Finally made it through all of these postings. I have to admit I always had questions regarding how deceptive Satan was in the original genesis story. I mean after first man tasted of the fruit of knowledge, it wasn't Satan who had doomed Mankind. As a matter of fact, God/s seemed quite worried that if they ate of the tree of life too, Adam and Eve would be gods, the same as them!

Why would a loving God throw his beloved creations out of the garden to ensure they do not ever partake of the tree of life? Certainly, the vanity falls upon God. Satan said you will not die and can be as Gods. This apparently would have been true, if they were able to partake of that tree that God guarded so desperately. Who is the greater deceiver, indeed?


Edit add: Also, didn't God not state something similar regarding the tower of Babel times? If he is such a great God, why does he exert such fears of mankind?

reply to post by CynConcepts


What was the deception? God told them not to eat it or they would die or in effect lose their state of immortality. Satan told them that God was a liar and that they wouldn't die.

AfterInfinity

sk0rpi0n
so basically this is one of those ''dude, what if the devil is the good guy'' type of threads thats been done over and over on ATS. Going by the backstory, Satan hated humans for the sole reason that humans are made from ''clay''. He thought he was superior to humans for being made of ''fire''. I wouldn't consider as a ''friend'' somebody who thinks he is better than me because of his skin or eye color. So those who hail Satan as a ''hero'' don't realise that their ''hero'' looks down upon them simply for being human.

Your god looks down on us for being human as well. How many times are we told that we are not worthy of his attention or consideration? We're supposed to take his compassion and regard as a gift because we're such lowly creatures. Isn't that what the bible says? We are his most favorite creation, but that won't stop him from drowning us liked unwanted puppies or slaughtering our firstborns.

God had His Son become a man, at the risk of losing everything, to redeem us. Sounds like His very heavy handedness is balanced by deep compassion.

We are not lowly creatures but fallen creatures. And not puppies but in the case of the flood, fouled up mature humans.

Hey Lags, did you get a warning too, I am curious?

UltraverseMaximus
Hey Lags, did you get a warning too, I am curious?

No, you got flagged for that very colorful language you used in that post. Otherwise apparently all is well.

Logarock

UltraverseMaximus
Hey Lags, did you get a warning too, I am curious?

No, you got flagged for that very colorful language you used in that post. Otherwise apparently all is well.

Oh ok I can be the scape goat. I am the Goat after all lol.
What language exactly did I use that was worse than I received?

reply to post by Logarock

God had His Son become a man, at the risk of losing everything, to redeem us. Sounds like His very heavy handedness is balanced by deep compassion.

I'm sorry...at the risk of everything? What exactly did he risk? How does the all-powerful all-knowing master of the universe risk anything at all? I thought the whole point of his D&D profile was to ensure that he never made a single risk in the entire duration of his existence. His success is guaranteed, no matter the objective. He cannot lose. Ever. Not even a little bit. He is incapable of losing unless he chooses to, and unless I'm sorely mistaken, God isn't in the habit of choosing the short end of the stick. I mean, really - his son, the sacrifice that granted us our salvation in return for our individual immortal souls, died a level 12 Jedi Knight and came back as a level 10,000 Super Saiyan White Dragon Archmage with all the powers of Odin, Zeus, Ra, Osiris and Anu rolled into one fat burrito. So what exactly did he risk?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Oh now that was super funny AA
I just had to comment and appreciate the wit displayed.

people just need to think about it:

the old testament jehovah is clearly more than one guy, and one of those guys doesn't like human beings
and the other one does.

Logarock
reply to post by CynConcepts

 

What was the deception? God told them not to eat it or they would die or in effect lose their state of immortality. Satan told them that God was a liar and that they wouldn't die.

They didn't die after they ate the fruit. God's deceit is in his own vanity. He wanted ignorant worshippers, not someone to question his edicts. Did he tell Adam and Eve that if they ate of the tree of Life, they would be Gods? No, apparently at that time it was discussed among the Gods and determined that we should be thrown from the garden. Did Satan know the God/s would do this? Possibly, since he was thrown out for questioning God's authority himself. Does that make him the great deceiver? Not any different than God withholding information.

Personally, I think both have their own agendas and we are just the pawns in the mix. At least, Satan, allowed us freedom to grow in knowledge instead of being empty minded slaves to the vain ego of OT God. Yes, they both may have vain traits and disagree with each other...but should either be considered better than us? I would have to think that there is an initial creator, but the ones that claim such status are just vainly reaching.

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Logarock

 

God had His Son become a man, at the risk of losing everything, to redeem us. Sounds like His very heavy handedness is balanced by deep compassion.

I'm sorry...at the risk of everything? What exactly did he risk? How does the all-powerful all-knowing master of the universe risk anything at all? I thought the whole point of his D&D profile was to ensure that he never made a single risk in the entire duration of his existence. His success is guaranteed, no matter the objective. He cannot lose. Ever. Not even a little bit. He is incapable of losing unless he chooses to, and unless I'm sorely mistaken, God isn't in the habit of choosing the short end of the stick. I mean, really - his son, the sacrifice that granted us our salvation in return for our individual immortal souls, died a level 12 Jedi Knight and came back as a level 10,000 Super Saiyan White Dragon Archmage with all the powers of Odin, Zeus, and Ra rolled into one fat burrito. So what exactly did he risk?

edit on 14-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Risk losing any redeemed of mankind. He really didn't want robots and loved the special relationship He had with mankind.....but had to give man the freedom to fall. Man was never a robot. Man was however blind to the full nature, the profound nature of the relationship between good and evil. This was the original condition of the relationship between man and God and God loved it that way. Heck man didn't even know he was naked. Well satan fixed all that for us and it is through these "opened" eyes that some now judge God for being a heal. Satan knew God had a hard side and wanted man to get a taste of that. So now we are like the angles caught up in the war between good and evil. Being part of it.

He also risked losing His Son if HE to were to fall victim to the same fate that befell mankind.

reply to post by CynConcepts


the argument is moot.
we didn't EAT anything. the tree of knowledge is about genetic inheritance of procreation.
knowledge=adam KNEW his wife and she gave birth. it's sexual intimate knowing of someone

in effect, we weren't involved in the process other than being modified to make copies OF OURSELVES (that's what the elohim were doing--making clones of themselves. and those clones became procreaters. that's the fall narrative.
we were genetically modified to procreate.
we didn't genetically modify ourselves to procreate.
but we did procreate after were genetically modified to procreate
we were fruitful and multiplied. this was not a sin, never was a sin, and somebody made it a sin, and that somebody is not the somebody that created us.

CynConcepts

Logarock
reply to post by CynConcepts

 

What was the deception? God told them not to eat it or they would die or in effect lose their state of immortality. Satan told them that God was a liar and that they wouldn't die.

They didn't die after they ate the fruit. God's deceit is in his own vanity. He wanted ignorant worshippers, not someone to question his edicts. Did he tell Adam and Eve that if they ate of the tree of Life, they would be Gods? No, apparently at that time it was discussed among the Gods and determined that we should be thrown from the garden.

They were removed from the garden so that they wouldn't gain immortality in their corrupt state. They had enough of that sort running around.

And really, who are we to question His edicts? We were never intended to be that sort of partner with God. How can man judge God out of mans limited understanding? Satan hasn't taught man anything save for what great levels man could take his rebellion against his creator.

reply to post by Logarock

Risk losing any redeemed of mankind. He really didn't want robots and loved the special relationship He had with mankind.....but had to give man the freedom to fall. Man was never a robot. Man was however blind to the full nature, the profound nature of the relationship between good and evil. This was the original condition of the relationship between man and God and God loved it that way.

Which reflects the presumption that there is only one way to the top of the mountain. If you are not on that path, you are on the way to an expedient and painful landing at the bottom. I tend to disagree - strongly disagree.

Heck man didn't even know he was naked. Well satan fixed all that for us and it is through these "opened" eyes that some now judge God for being a heal. Satan knew God had a hard side and wanted man to get a taste of that. So now we are like the angles caught up in the war between good and evil. Being part of it.

So what you're saying is, Satan helped us see the whole truth and now we are suffering for having accepted his aid? Was God's intention to keep us holed up in the garden for all of eternity, never knowing there was a "rest of the planet", let alone a "rest of the galaxy" or "rest of the universe"? Were we like cattle, to be contained and controlled, because our free will was no more effective outside the garden than inside? We would still be ignorant, still be naive, still be weak.

You are making a very poor case in defense of such an arrangement. But Satan...Satan gave God an opportunity to let us go. Satan, God's sworn enemy and most disgraced creation, entered the safe haven containing God's most precious creation and illuminated its awareness without trouble. God was only handy AFTER the snake crept in, AFTER the snake found Eve, AFTER Eve summoned Adam and coaxed him into partaking. All-knowing, all-powerful God was just as helpful as a rock until the deed was done. That's pretty pathetic. How does someone so controlling and so meticulous make such a huge mistake? It makes no sense. But either way, Satan helped to free them.

And yet, he's the bad guy.

undo
reply to post by CynConcepts

 

the argument is moot.
we didn't EAT anything. the tree of knowledge is about genetic inheritance of procreation.
knowledge=adam KNEW his wife and she gave birth. it's sexual intimate knowing of someone

in effect, we weren't involved in the process other than being modified to make copies OF OURSELVES (that's what the elohim were doing--making clones of themselves. and those clones became procreaters. that's the fall narrative.
we were genetically modified to procreate.
we didn't genetically modify ourselves to procreate.
but we did procreate after were genetically modified to procreate
we were fruitful and multiplied. this was not a sin, never was a sin, and somebody made it a sin, and that somebody is not the somebody that created us.

edit on 14-3-2014 by undo because: (no reason given)

This is a very fine example of the sort of reasoning that comes from mans corrupted mind and heart. Human intercourse is maligned, human procreation is maligned as a robot factory.

Not to mention about all of the conclusions above are false. Man was made to procreate, to love, and fill the earth with a new sort of creature, a god man in one with nature and God. But no, Satan couldn't have that.

Logarock

AfterInfinity
reply to post by Logarock

 

God had His Son become a man, at the risk of losing everything, to redeem us. Sounds like His very heavy handedness is balanced by deep compassion.

I'm sorry...at the risk of everything? What exactly did he risk? How does the all-powerful all-knowing master of the universe risk anything at all? I thought the whole point of his D&D profile was to ensure that he never made a single risk in the entire duration of his existence. His success is guaranteed, no matter the objective. He cannot lose. Ever. Not even a little bit. He is incapable of losing unless he chooses to, and unless I'm sorely mistaken, God isn't in the habit of choosing the short end of the stick. I mean, really - his son, the sacrifice that granted us our salvation in return for our individual immortal souls, died a level 12 Jedi Knight and came back as a level 10,000 Super Saiyan White Dragon Archmage with all the powers of Odin, Zeus, and Ra rolled into one fat burrito. So what exactly did he risk?

edit on 14-3-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

Risk losing any redeemed of mankind. He really didn't want robots and loved the special relationship He had with mankind.....but had to give man the freedom to fall. Man was never a robot. Man was however blind to the full nature, the profound nature of the relationship between good and evil. This was the original condition of the relationship between man and God and God loved it that way. Heck man didn't even know he was naked. Well satan fixed all that for us and it is through these "opened" eyes that some now judge God for being a heal. Satan knew God had a hard side and wanted man to get a taste of that. So now we are like the angles caught up in the war between good and evil. Being part of it.

He also risked losing His Son if HE to were to fall victim to the same fate that befell mankind.

So here you are using the internet, and you are slandering robots in the name of God. Do you see the irony?

AfterInfinity


So what you're saying is, Satan helped us see the whole truth and now we are suffering for having accepted his aid? Was God's intention to keep us holed up in the garden for all of eternity, never knowing there was a "rest of the planet", let alone a "rest of the galaxy" or "rest of the universe"? Were we like cattle, to be contained and controlled, because our free will was no more effective outside the garden than inside? We would still be ignorant, still be naive, still be weak.

You are making a very poor case in defense of such an arrangement.

What good is the whole truth now but to separate you from God? Who said we ever needed or are better for the whole truth concerning good and evil? That's Satan. Look at all the misery man brought on the earth by listening to that renegade. This is Satans idea of Godhood.

and we were not weak but created at the pinnacle of creation, higher than the angles at one with God. He gave us control over the earth.

reply to post by undo


Undo, I have gotten through hundreds of your posts/threads, regarding your theory. It does have some merits, in my opinion. I believe the tree of knowledge was all about procreation. Thus as to why noticing their nakedness was so important. Aka: sexual urges. As everyine's perceptions are unique, I naturally cannot fully agree.

I certainly don't have the answers, but I do have questions that I am seeking the answers to.

reply to post by Logarock


i think we are talking about the same thing.

the serpent was a sorcerer. sorcery is from the word pharmacopeia, which means medicine.
he was a doctor who's symbol was dna -- a doctor of genetics.

when the first 2 verses regarding the creation of the adam shows up in the text, it says
elohim created adam (not man, but adam -- there's a difference at this point) male and female.
he created THEM male and female in the image of elohim.

so what you have there is a doctor of life, a master physician, (not a god of the dead but of the living)
who is creating new life by copying it from the dna of the elohim. there are 2 types of elohim in that verse.
well, 3 if you want to get technical.

one elohim is the creator god.

the other elohim are the gods the adam males and females are created in the image of (copied)

and then there's the elohim copies who are called adam (both males and females). they aren't robots, they are genetic
copies, but they definitely have their own souls and spirits.

now fast forward, the metaphor for the fall narrative begins.
eve, who's name means MOTHER, is a female adam who has been genetically modified to procreate and give birth.
adam names her that AFTER the fall narrative. because that's what the fall narrative is.

that is why the accuser is the guy in the garden who gets all bent out of shape that humans are procreating, not
the guy who gave us procreation.


WHO TOLD YOU YOU WERE NAKED?
um, my hormones did?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


AA, you are dealing with a mind mess of a troll who is most likely a full blown psi op agent. I have challenged this person and they have backed down every time. Yet they come back spewing more of their propaganda and if you get to close, you will likely get a warning.

Its amazing really. I have to be careful because they are clearly working for the system of lies and control, hence i got a warning they did not and this has not been explained.