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defcon5
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
You know for a fact that all the teachers just happened to stop evacuating students to run to the “staff lounge” and grab their car keys? Or that they were all carrying them with them at the time this happened?
Again, when you have to move a group of hundreds to possibly thousands of people, and account for them all, 10 minutes is a much shorter amount of time than you're giving it credit for. Nobody is going to die from hypothermia or get deep frostbite in 10 minutes unless they are much colder weather then we get here in the US. I'm not saying its a pleasant experience, but again its not as immediately threatening as some here are making it out to be.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
diggindirt
However, in this case there wasn't just one or two people to see that these children were protected. I'm assuming that all high school classes have a teacher so if you're dealing with several hundred children, you've also got several dozen adults.
diggindirt
When I read stories like this and some of the comments, I am eternally grateful that my loved ones are being homeschooled.
defcon5
reply to post by hounddoghowlie
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.
Death from smoke inhalation = 2 – 10 minutes.
Death from immersion in freezing water = 15-45 minutes.
If you are in charge of a group in an emergency situation you have to take care of issues according to what is the most immediate, and work your way down from that. People were aware of her situation, and helping her, she was not in immediate “life threatening” danger. Hypothermia has stages and signs, frostbite is not fatal and has varying degrees. It takes a significant amount of time in very cold weather to get “deep” frostbite to an extent that requires amputation of tissue, most cases of frostbite are treatable.
That may sound cold, but I'm guessing you've never had to deal with that sort of situation.
I have, too many times...
You do things in a specific order of descending importance, quickly, and often with incomplete information. You put potential “life and death” issues before ones that are not immediately threatening. Again, this is exactly the same as triage. In triage you might have to let someone sit and bleed, while you are busy giving someone else CPR to save them.
I suppose that had the fire been worse, you would have rather had someone end up burnt to death because the staff was concentrating on this one child’s issue rather then making sure that no one was still in harms way? Or that a firefighter ended up dead searching for a missing student who had left the scene unaccounted for to seek refuge in another building? Or that that the student could have ended up dead because she took 5-10 minutes extra to go the locker and change?
Its easy to “arm chair quarterback" this stuff, and hindsight is 20/20, but you give me the solution, and I'll show you that even your solution is potentially full of holes.
As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.
Her fellow classmates, at least, huddled around her to try to keep her warm. And one teacher did eventually lend her a coat.
queenofsheba
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
Five below zero is not that uncommon in Minnesota. I grew up there, basically my whole life. I dressed my children accordingly for the weather and perhaps her parents did not. Wind chill factor is something to be considered for sure, (see I'm talking MN)...but still don't you think the parents' had some responsibility for how they dressed their child for the weather? It's always a possibility that the school bus could go in the ditch in bad weather, and trust me, school busses drive out to rural areas to pick up kids in inclement weather. I have lived it, seen it. That's why I drove an F250 Four wheel drive truck when I lived there, it's common sense. I made sure my kids were dressed accordingly, for all outcomes, including fire drills, busses breaking down, etc. I have a sneaky suspicion the child in question was not properly outfitted for the weather.
queenofsheba
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
Sorry, I missed that, my bad. You are right. Yep, then bad call. I'm not perfect, what can I say?
hounddoghowlie
in my younger days i was volunteer firefighter and as well part of my time when i was in the Corps. i know all the all the drills and procedure of how to approach a emergency situation.
hounddoghowlie
when you have fifty teachers standing in a parking lot, while a wet half naked girl warped what is more than likely wet towel and a wet head.
hounddoghowlie
any one that says, they would do the same as these teachers are too. plain and simple.
hounddoghowlie
also time decrease in exposure as wind chill drops.
whitewave
In the condition that girl was in when she exited the building, it takes 2 minutes for hypothermia to set in and be serious enough for her to be unable to have the coordination needed to even open a car door for herself if it had been offered or allowed. Two Minutes!
Kangaruex4Ewe
Yet there was no more than ONE teacher that could offer a student at their school a coat? At least one more coat to stand on could have possibly prevented the frostbite. One more coat.
defcon5
Kangaruex4Ewe
Yet there was no more than ONE teacher that could offer a student at their school a coat? At least one more coat to stand on could have possibly prevented the frostbite. One more coat.
Did no one but me read the article AND watch the video?
She was given a teachers coat and a students sweater.
Kangaruex4Ewe
Obviously she needed more than what she had since she got frostbite on her feet.
Kangaruex4Ewe
And obviously NOAA's statistics aren't correct 100% of the time since this girl did indeed suffer frostbite to her feet in less than 30 minutes.
whitewave
Poorly dressed?
whitewave
In wind?
whitewave
Does NOAA say those statistics are still accurate if the victim is wet?
whitewave
And obviously her frostbite DID occur is less than 30-45 minutes.
whitewave
My information was obtained from nursing school and 30 years of working ICU.
JHumm
You shouldn't have to worry about your child gettin frost bite at school ,no matter how minor . If one of those teachers had common sense which you would think someone would ....(it is a school ) this wouldn't have happened.