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School Causes Girl To Get Frost Bite

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posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:48 AM
Rules are rules! Personally, I feel the teacher directly responsible for the the kid at the time (a gym teacher I guess) should get the blame. And why was only this one girl wet and in her bathing suit? Not the whole class?

The rules have to be set as such - but any teacher should be able to look at a unique situation and make an audible!

Yeah. Yeah, now here comes the speech about how he's just doing his job by following orders. Friends, let me tell you about another group of hate mongers that were just following orders. They were called Nazis! - Chewlies Gum Rep

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:53 AM
After reading the article this wasn't a routine fire drill, a science experiment set off the fire alarm. That's a different scenario, more of an emergency. Not saying the school was right but until they're sure why the alarm went off it's best to get the kids out.

It would've been far worse had the school blown up with her inside. It would take about 10 minutes to account for everyone/determine why the alarm went off. Had it taken longer, EMTs/firemen would've taken care of her.

What I'm confused about is why she was the only one wet and in a swimming suit? I went to a large high school we never got private time in the pool. Had she been swimming with a group more kids would've been outside half naked. Was she swimming alone? Not a good idea. Not sure what's going on in that school but it's not adding up.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 10:58 AM
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

Sadly is seems she was so conditioned to obey that she was unable to use her survival instinct to kick someone in the gonads., until let let her back in.

edit on 103131p://bWednesday2014 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:00 AM
reply to post by Morningglory

whatever the circumstances, someone should have protected her from the elements.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:05 AM
FYI for some folks commenting on this thread.

1) The 14 year old girl is a minor, and a child, in the care of whoever/whatever authority is in charge at that time.

2) 5 degree weather is dangerous period, and wind chill of -25 is downright deadly.

3) Many people that have never experienced this type of weather have no clue.

4) It doesn't matter what the situation was, how it happened, or why it did because a child ended up outside in the dangerous cold.

Here in Michigan a women slipped and fell on ice, bumped her head on the ground, and froze to death in similar conditions, in less than 45 minutes, with winter clothes on a few years back.

Cold is one thing, but a wind chill is nothing to play around with, especially when the real temperature is in the single digits.
edit on 5-3-2014 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:10 AM
reply to post by RedParrotHead

reply to post by Morningglory

according to the article,there were two in the pool. one girl had her clothes pool side she didn't.

as i said time and time again. plans are not always the best way to do things. sure in principle, but in 5degree ambient temp with a -25 windchill, the first teacher that saw her or her teacher at the pool, should have taken responsibility made sure she was in a safe place,and accounted for her.

it's called initiative

iˈniSH(ē)ətiv/ noun noun: initiative; plural noun: initiatives; noun: the initiative
1. the ability to assess and initiate things independently.
"use your initiative, imagination, and common sense" synonyms: self-motivation, resourcefulness, inventiveness, imagination, ingenuity, originality, creativity, enterprise; More drive, dynamism, ambition, motivation, spirit, energy, vision; informalget-up-and-go, pep, moxie, spunk, gumption "employers are looking for people with initiative"
2. the power or opportunity to act or take charge before others do. "we have lost the initiative and allowed our opponents to dictate the subject"

edit on 5-3-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:40 AM
reply to post by Stormdancer777

Not saying she shouldn't have been protected from the elements but imo that's only half the story. It's possible this school is negligent in other areas as well.

As a parent I would want answers. I would want to know why my child was the only one wet/in a bathing suit and the school better have a reasonable explanation for it.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:56 AM
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

That's criminal negligence. Someone should be in jail.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 11:59 AM
reply to post by hounddoghowlie

There were only two in the pool? Wonder how much supervision they had? We weren't allowed to bring anything poolside, water hazard etc. Everything went in the locker.

Makes me think these two weren't very well supervised. Sounds like no one was there to take charge. My coaches would've done something, given us their clothes/shoes. I think these kids were left to their own devices.

I'd say this is only the tip of the iceberg, the school's lucky something worse didn't happen poolside or wherever else these kids are left unsupervised.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 03:08 PM
reply to post by defcon5

i'm not gonna keep going back and forth with you on this. it's plain to see that your by the book, a compliance kinda guy, and sees this only through the eyes of a emergency services provider. one of the ones who thinks that, our way is the right way, and in my opinion second only to cops, who suffer not being able to see because of their pride and arrogance.

but for those of us who have been there done that, and those that haven't, but see that going by the book can and does cause injury and in some instances death. we know better. i will admit that the book is right sometimes, sometimes it's not, such as this case.

fact is the child suffered frost bite, which can and is used as a indication of a more severe problem.

Inadequate blood circulation when the ambient temperature is below freezing leads to frostbite. This can be because the body is constricting circulation to extremities on its own to preserve core temperature and fight hypothermia. In this scenario the same factors that can lead to hypothermia (extreme cold, inadequate clothing, wet clothes, wind chill)

now this was a health teacher from what i read, he should have known this if he was a real health teacher living in Minnesota! one of the coldest states in the union. he should have taken charge of the two children made sure the one with clothes went to the group and placed the other in a safe place and accounted for her to his superiors. chances are in doing so he would have received recognition of having seen a problem and took the initiative to do something about it and brought to light a problem that has been over looked in this plan, in a positive way instead of a negative way.

before i close i would like to ask 1 question and point out a mistake that you have made.

i was wondering why you didn't acknowledge the word less out in the reply i made to you, in your reply back to me?
could it have been ln the context that the word less was used, it proved your point wrong? meaning that death could result in less than 15 mins.
here is your reply and my original quote i used in my post where the word .less is used.

your reply to me, if you go to your earlier post you say 15 mins never mentioning the word less.

reply to post by defcon5
Yeah, that's the same numbers I quoted you, and those are full immersion in freezing water. That's worst case scenario as water is a great conductor of heat, and causes you to lose it faster.

again from ny USSARTF guidelines
Water temperature: 32 degrees or below Time until exhaustion or unconsciousness: Less than 15 minutes Expected time of survival in the water: Less than 15 to 45 minutes

in your reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
where you used the Chart from NOAA, this one,reply to post by defcon5

We don't know the windspeed from the news, but we know that it was -5 and -25 windchill, which means that the wind should have been roughly 14mph. That puts it in the 30 minutes zone.

if you look at the top of the chart, where it says temperature(f), that means outside ambient temp. if you go down the column under 5 degrees, all the way down to where you start seeing -21 degrees,then look to the left whereit gives wind(mph) you see that the wind speed is at least 35 mph for a -21 degree temp. then as you move further down the chart as the minus below temps are shown.
at -25 the wind speed says 55 mph, and is much closer to the 10 min shaded area of the chart.

the news article plainly stated that the temp was 5 degrees, and the windchill -25, not -5 and a wind chill of -25

did you over look that or did you just fudge your numbers to make your point?
granted you said that we don't know the wind speed.

like i said, i'm not going to keep going back and forth with you on this. you it see your way
i and others see it in a different way.

edit on 5-3-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 03:24 PM
reply to post by VoidHawk

Panic lock if someone did not mention it by now

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 04:02 PM
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

All I can say is this is what happens when the State becomes too powerful and intimidates people into not making good choices base on the automaton nature of the programming. Cogs in the wheel of John Dewey's model of the Supreme State. This is where we are all headed. It is the Totalitarian model being designed for us and we are all being herded into like cattle and sheep. Read Glenn Beck's fiction book "Agenda 21", it's frighteningly predictive of a horrible future based on the Agenda 21 model.

Oh yah and did I mention that we get weather alerts around here saying that when there's a severe wind chill, people can get frostbite in just minutes. Apparently the personnel there do not know much about frostbite.
edit on 5-3-2014 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 04:06 PM
Even with winter clothes a -25 windchill still isn't any fun.

The school should have had a back up plan in the event of inclement weather. Most large buildings have an "alternate" rally point in the event of horrible weather.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 04:17 PM
reply to post by defcon5

Like I said in another post, we get weather alerts that say to cover all areas of the skin under similar conditions because frostbite can occur within minutes.
That said, it is unfortunate, it wasn't intentional, but it did happen.

According to this chart they were in the 30 minute frostbite window
edit on 5-3-2014 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 04:17 PM
Now you know why there are so many lawyers. Low hanging fruit thanks to bureaucratic fools. Settle out of court to avoid the ugly publicity. Apologies just won't cut it in todays world.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 05:47 PM

reply to post by VoidHawk

Schools locally are run in a more "security conscious" fashion these days. All external doors locked and, during the drills, it requires a staff member to open a door. We just had our own little puzzled fire drill logic at my house as my youngest's school opted to have a fire drill during a severe wind alert. Made me kind of wonder why they didn't, I don't know, reschedule for the next day when the storm would have passed? Nah, more fun to watch kids get buffeted by high powered winds.

The whole point of a security drill is to figure out the worst case scenario for that environment. Suppose the school gets hit by lightning during a strong thunderstorm with heavy hail, sets off the fire alarms, and a tornado is heading towards them? What is the procedure then?

If they are lucky, there would be an underground shelter. If they an IQ lower than a garden snail, then they send the kids out into the hailstorm. There have been schools that had the misfortune of being hit by a tornado, and the school board were too cheap to have built a tornado shelter.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:04 PM
There were so many points in this where this could have been identified and corrective action taken. The risk to the student should have been obvious to anyone from the moment the fire alarm sounded.

A teacher had to check the change rooms. That teacher instructs the student to be his shadow while he checks, the student picks up her clothes. No problem occurs.

Or, the teacher checking the change rooms picks up her clothes and takes them to her.

To put it simply, all the teachers had to do was to think.

Now, someone said that the teachers are not trained in emergency procedures and thus just follow protocols. Well, fire these teachers. They are responsible for say 30 children. They damn well better be able to cope well or they should not be teachers. This, the safety of the children, is a task all teachers should know.

The teachers would do a head count before they evacuated and immediately upon arriving at the designated spot in the parking lot. A few seconds for another head count, look at the closest other teacher and say, "Can you watch my class, they are all accounted for, I need to get this student into a safe environment.

In the chain of events that occurred, there were multiple times where this situation could have been avoided or overcome.

Teachers need these skills. If they cannot cope in an emergency then THEY SHOULD NOT BE TEACHERS.

We don't just pay them to teach dogma to our children, we pay them to keep our children safe.

All this situation needed, was for one, just one teacher to engage their brain.


edit on 5/3/2014 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:11 PM
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe

I hope she at least sued for the full cost of her college education....

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:20 PM
just wanted to post that on the NOAA website there is a Windchill Calculator, at the bottom of the page.

Windchill Calculator

i ran some numbers.

now to be fair,it does say that on sunny days the windchill could increase 10 to 18 degrees.
so it might be safe to say that the wind was only 14 mph. but unless someone that lives there or in the area posts what the wind speed was that day we can't say from the info provided.

posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 06:34 PM
Sounds like they got some serious imbeciles running that school. You can't fix stupid though. Some clip haired, mullet sporting freak of a teacher with a power trip probably got off on watching the poor girl freeze. ~$heopleNation

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