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School Causes Girl To Get Frost Bite

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posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by VoidHawk
 


I agree with the above poster's responses and want to add that this is the way it is nowadays within the public school system. The teacher's patol the halls like prison guards, take things away from the children, punish them for the stupidest things and just give an overall vibe of "do as you're told or else"! We see it all the time on here, day care's kicking kids out for "sexual harrasment" because they hugged a class mate, elementary students suspended for making a gun with their fingers, middle school children being suspended for what their T-shirts say.

We have reached a new level of control... behavior modification! The fact that this girl was in a bathing suit and dripping wet (without reading the article) and no other students were, means to me that she was most likely using a study hall or free period to train. An attempt to earn herself a scholarship or some other form of recognition to get ahead of the game. For those who want to do somethng or be something, school has become a place of torment and there is very little support and guidance to be found.

I have 3 children in the public school system, I have very little positive to say. Our society is set up so that we can't afford to raise them without both parents working and the laws are set up that they must go or we get fined. I don't have the time or access to the materials to home school either, so I'm stuck sending them to prison 7 hours a day, 5 days a week and crossing my fingers that they come home to me in one piece, physically, mentally and emotionally.




posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 


She could have done something other than stand there like a victim for a whole whopping 10 min. Drills are meant to practice for the real thing.

Adults do polar bear swims in much colder than that and for much longer. kids run hot compared to adults. I am a parent and I don't raise my children to be helpless victims. I would be so mad at my kids if they stood there like victims rather than tend to themselves. Frost bite would be the least of their worries. Funny how a kids pain evaporates under the threat of no tv or video games.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 09:21 PM
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WhiteAlice
reply to post by VoidHawk
 


The doors can be opened from the inside but automatically lock when closed from the outside. They are safety fire doors. My guess is that most schools have doors like this now. I know that my youngest, when in elementary school, made the mistake of running back to grab her coat and was locked out of the school for 20 minutes before somebody noticed her tapping on the glass. Her teacher didn't even notice her being missing...The level of impressed I was with that one was zero.




I'm a Dinosaur.
I'm just not up on all this security nonsense. When I was at school there were no gates and often not even a perimeter fence! I remember one day a boy climbed onto the roof of our school to protest about something, guess what they did...they went back into school and just left him there. Half hour later he climbed down. I wonder what they'd do if that happened now?



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 


The principal of that school would receive some 'tough love' from me. ambulance type.

If a female, my wife would administer.

If I went to jail for it, I would do whatever it took to become a shot caller and call one on the judge who sentenced me



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 09:36 PM
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VoidHawk

WhiteAlice
reply to post by VoidHawk
 


The doors can be opened from the inside but automatically lock when closed from the outside. They are safety fire doors. My guess is that most schools have doors like this now. I know that my youngest, when in elementary school, made the mistake of running back to grab her coat and was locked out of the school for 20 minutes before somebody noticed her tapping on the glass. Her teacher didn't even notice her being missing...The level of impressed I was with that one was zero.




I'm a Dinosaur.
I'm just not up on all this security nonsense. When I was at school there were no gates and often not even a perimeter fence! I remember one day a boy climbed onto the roof of our school to protest about something, guess what they did...they went back into school and just left him there. Half hour later he climbed down. I wonder what they'd do if that happened now?


Same here. In high school one could virtually come and go as one pleased.

As for the boy... They'd probably call in SWAT, dub him a homegrown terrorist and eventually wound or kill him because he moved too fast from one side to the other.

Times... They have changed.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 09:50 PM
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Kangaruex4Ewe

VoidHawk

WhiteAlice
reply to post by VoidHawk
 


The doors can be opened from the inside but automatically lock when closed from the outside. They are safety fire doors. My guess is that most schools have doors like this now. I know that my youngest, when in elementary school, made the mistake of running back to grab her coat and was locked out of the school for 20 minutes before somebody noticed her tapping on the glass. Her teacher didn't even notice her being missing...The level of impressed I was with that one was zero.




I'm a Dinosaur.
I'm just not up on all this security nonsense. When I was at school there were no gates and often not even a perimeter fence! I remember one day a boy climbed onto the roof of our school to protest about something, guess what they did...they went back into school and just left him there. Half hour later he climbed down. I wonder what they'd do if that happened now?


Same here. In high school one could virtually come and go as one pleased.

As for the boy... They'd probably call in SWAT, dub him a homegrown terrorist and eventually wound or kill him because he moved too fast from one side to the other.

Times... They have changed.


Trying not to LOL, but I nearly wrote - He'd probably have been shot by a leo.

I remember when I started primary school (in the uk thats the first school we go to) I got engrossed in watching a huge rolling machine that was repairing the road outside the school. I followed it down the road busily chatting to the men working on the road. Two hours later my mother just happened to be passing and....I was in trouble
The school didn't even know I was missing!

I often think we were the luckiest generation to have lived. We had the nearest you can get to genuine freedom. We had medical care that meant we didn't suffer like previous generations, we had welfare that prevented starvation, we had real policemen that worked for us rather than the government, we had so much!! And now we're losing it all again.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by VoidHawk
 


I think you are right. I think we were lucky enough to be born at just the right time. Sadly, it leaves us wondering if our children were unlucky to be born at this time.

I suppose every generation feels like the younger one is ruining everything and things are changing for the worse... but I do wonder if it has ever been truer than it is right now.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 10:22 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



MALBOSIA
Drills are meant to practice for the real thing.

It wasn't a drill, something in the science wing set off the alarms.
According to her own statement in the video, the teacher told her:

So the alarm went off and I said, “well is it just a drill, do I have to go outside?”, and then he was like “well, we usually don't have just fake ones in the winter”.


So from the teachers perspective this was a real emergency, and they have no idea of what it was, how serious, or how immediate. At that point evacuating everyone quickly is of primary importance. If you're dealing with a gas of some type or even smoke, the danger may not readily apparent to a teacher. They do use fire alarms for emergencies besides just fires.

For example:
When I worked for an engineering firm we once had an emergency “fire” evacuation in the dead of winter because some of the engineers accidentally created and released a poisonous gas that quickly went through the ventilation system into all areas of the building. There was no danger that was apparent to the naked eye, but if we hadn't gotten out quickly we would have suffered far more real and permanent damage than frost bite.


VoidHawk
Why didn't she run for the nearest warm place?

In a fire drill at a school, you have to show up at your designated “group” to be accounted. This is so they can quickly find out if someone is still inside, maybe trapped or injured, and pass that information along to the fire rescue workers. At that point their focus is on making sure everyone is safely evacuated from the building and accounted for. Ten minutes is really not that long of a time when your dealing with hundreds to thousands of students and faculty spread out across a large parking lot.

As far as putting them in someone car. Yes, I can even understand the schools policy on that. In today's world, anyone who is aware of current events should understand why they don't allow that level of “fraternization” between the staff and the students. In this case they had to make an exception, but it had to be cleared from a superior.

From just a quick search around it appears that this is a very good school, and has been listed by Newsweek as one of the "top schools in America" repeatedly. I doubt that the staff are idiots, and in an emergency, just like in triage, you have to deal with the “life and death” stuff before you deal with the “might cause some harm or discomfort” stuff.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


+1 more 
posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 10:52 PM
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She could have done something other than stand there like a victim for a whole whopping 10 min. Drills are meant to practice for the real thing.

Adults do polar bear swims in much colder than that and for much longer. kids run hot compared to adults. I am a parent and I don't raise my children to be helpless victims. I would be so mad at my kids if they stood there like victims rather than tend to themselves. Frost bite would be the least of their worries. Funny how a kids pain evaporates under the threat of no tv or video games.


Right... let's blame the child for the moronic response of the school. Why are you making excuses for them? Polar bear swims? Kids "run hot?" Seriously? No one "runs hot" when wet, in next to no clothes, in the freezing cold. Where has everyone's compassion gone? You really think she was playing victim? You have no idea what the situation was.

She was a CHILD. People respond to emergencies in different ways. So because she either had nowhere to go, or panicked, or was confused, she should first suffer frostbite, and then her parents wrath at not being a survivor? Wow.. some of you ATS posters seriously blow my mind with your ill-conceived logic, and utter lack of sympathy or compassion.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 10:58 PM
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People are doing these things more and more - don't seem to know how to solve problems or think critically (or just think period), and it is both frustrating and scary. I wonder who did stay inside? The Principal or a few teachers perhaps. Rules are meant for people who have common sense or conventional wisdom. If they don't have those things they shouldn't have a job that requires following rules that apply to human beings. Stick them in a gas pump where thinking like a robot is necessary. Leave the jobs with living things to those who are not robots.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by VoidHawk
 


It's okay. I date from the Cretaceous so schools are way different today than when I was a kid even. Most of the changes have happened just in the past 15 years and I wouldn't have known anything about it if it weren't for having school age children telling me things in passing, lol. My little spies in the schools feed me good intel.



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 11:08 PM
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defcon5
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


I doubt that the staff are idiots, and in an emergency, just like in triage, you have to deal with the “life and death” stuff before you deal with the “might cause some harm or discomfort” stuff.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


the staff are to idiots, principle on down to teacher. this was a life threatening situation, not just discomfort. a wet half naked girl, wrapped only in a towel, outside in 5 degree ambient temp with a wind chill temp down to -25. forced to wait ten minutes before any real aid was given, which resulted in frost bite. any longer and she might have lost a few toes or a foot. for that matter her core body temp could have dropped and she could have went into hypothermia, and suffered more than frost bite.

you do realize that frost bite starts because blood flow stops to that part of the body right.


Blood flow halts in frostbitten skin, and the area must be thawed and rewarmed swiftly to prevent tissue death (gangrene) and infection. The ears, nose, hands, and feet are particularly susceptible. Frostbite is sometimes accompanied by a life-threatening drop in internal body temperature, known as hypothermia, which must be treated first.




Frostbite is the temporary (superficial) or permanent (deep) skin tissue damage caused by prolonged skin-tissue temperature of 23 degrees F and below


i dare say just a little more than just discomfort.
and this could have been avoided if non thinking job scared minions, would have practiced a little non compliance and let the girl sit in the car.

edit on 4-3-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)


ETA: i also wanted to say your response,sounds just like a true conformist, every answer you gave is straight from the book.
edit on 4-3-2014 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 4 2014 @ 11:13 PM
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roadgravel
The purpose of a rule is for safety. If the rule makes for an unsafe condition, it's a bad rule. An adjustment is in order.


Good quote.

Rules and regulations (and laws) are all based on principles. While the principle does not change, rules and laws should be malleable to changing circumstances to upheld the principles they were created to support to begin with.

Just a real small example, a small road. Stop signs. Principle: Safety and order. Law: Stop-sign. Town grows, stop-sign replaced with 4-way stop sign. Town grows, stop-sign changed for traffic lights. The laws continued to change to uphold the same principle of safety and order.

When a fire-drill has regulations put in place to protect people, if circumstances change that leave the person unprotected, then the regulation needs to be bent in some fashion in order to keep the principle of the rules, which is the safety of the person.

A mature person should understand this, and have no problem basing real-life decisions around these things.


Whenever I see or hear of someone saying that they cannot bend the rules, for any reason, I realize that this person is extreme, ignorant, and unreasoning.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:04 AM
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Great metaphor for our whole society really -
We're all so willing to follow the rule and laws no matter whether they are counter-productive, unfair or even Unconstitutional we adhere to them to our detriment and good lemmings that we are it looks like we may play follow the lemming right off the cliff.

Pushing that girl out in subfreezing weather is the same thing that horrified us about Mengele.
I would fire every last responsible adult who went along with this.
I'm afraid to think what I might do if she were my daughter.
I'd be in jail, no question about it.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:09 AM
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MALBOSIA
reply to post by Kangaruex4Ewe
 


She could have done something other than stand there like a victim for a whole whopping 10 min. Drills are meant to practice for the real thing.

Adults do polar bear swims in much colder than that and for much longer. kids run hot compared to adults. I am a parent and I don't raise my children to be helpless victims. I would be so mad at my kids if they stood there like victims rather than tend to themselves. Frost bite would be the least of their worries. Funny how a kids pain evaporates under the threat of no tv or video games.


Did you not get the part where SCHOOL OFFICIALS WOULDN"T ALLOW HER TO MOVE ANYWHERE?



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by hounddoghowlie
 

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Death from smoke inhalation = 2 – 10 minutes.
Death from immersion in freezing water = 15-45 minutes.

If you are in charge of a group in an emergency situation you have to take care of issues according to what is the most immediate, and work your way down from that. People were aware of her situation, and helping her, she was not in immediate “life threatening” danger. Hypothermia has stages and signs, frostbite is not fatal and has varying degrees. It takes a significant amount of time in very cold weather to get “deep” frostbite to an extent that requires amputation of tissue, most cases of frostbite are treatable.

That may sound cold, but I'm guessing you've never had to deal with that sort of situation.
I have, too many times...
You do things in a specific order of descending importance, quickly, and often with incomplete information. You put potential “life and death” issues before ones that are not immediately threatening. Again, this is exactly the same as triage. In triage you might have to let someone sit and bleed, while you are busy giving someone else CPR to save them.

I suppose that had the fire been worse, you would have rather had someone end up burnt to death because the staff was concentrating on this one child’s issue rather then making sure that no one was still in harms way? Or that a firefighter ended up dead searching for a missing student who had left the scene unaccounted for to seek refuge in another building? Or that that the student could have ended up dead because she took 5-10 minutes extra to go the locker and change?

Its easy to “arm chair quarterback" this stuff, and hindsight is 20/20, but you give me the solution, and I'll show you that even your solution is potentially full of holes.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:23 AM
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Asktheanimals

I would fire every last responsible adult who went along with this.
I'm afraid to think what I might do if she were my daughter.
I'd be in jail, no question about it.


I think the principal will have a lot of 'splainin to do before all is said and done. There were enough witnesses there that they could have safely put her in a car without worrying about some kind of sexual harassment claim, and there were enough adults there that someone should have been able to come up with a solution off the cuff if the car was completely out of the question. They have lost the ability to improvise in any situation and that can result in any number of dangerous outcomes IMO.

And the jail part...Me too. I have a strong feeling that I would have had to find someone that could post bail before the sun set on another day.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:32 AM
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I do not see any way to place a smidgen of blame on the victim, nor do I see a way to excuse any adult, let alone a teacher or school employee responsible for the safety of the children, for not getting that girl immediately to either a car or some other location under those conditions.

The idea there may have been a fire is no excuse in my opinion. The conditions outside were equally as dangerous as any that might have been present inside. This makes me wonder at the intelligence of the responsible adults, no matter what school this occurred in.

Why would anyone excuse these adults for worrying about rules, vs. a child's safety. The school is no doubt silent as they have already lost any law suit they may see in the future. I'd imagine they are making offers right now.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:33 AM
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Kangaruex4Ewe
There were enough witnesses there that they could have safely put her in a car without worrying about some kind of sexual harassment claim, and there were enough adults there that someone should have been able to come up with a solution off the cuff if the car was completely out of the question.

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


You know for a fact that all the teachers just happened to stop evacuating students to run to the “staff lounge” and grab their car keys? Or that they were all carrying them with them at the time this happened?

Again, when you have to move a group of hundreds to possibly thousands of people, and account for them all, 10 minutes is a much shorter amount of time than you're giving it credit for. Nobody is going to die from hypothermia or get deep frostbite in 10 minutes unless they are much colder weather then we get here in the US. I'm not saying its a pleasant experience, but again its not as immediately threatening as some here are making it out to be.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Mar, 5 2014 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


Your thinking is really good. It works just fine. However, in this case there wasn't just one or two people to see that these children were protected. I'm assuming that all high school classes have a teacher so if you're dealing with several hundred children, you've also got several dozen adults. Had JUST ONE of those adults acted as a responsible adult, we wouldn't be discussing this.
When I read stories like this and some of the comments, I am eternally grateful that my loved ones are being homeschooled.



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