Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

Dianec
reply to post by Salamandy

 

With regard to a draft of U.S. citizens - although it is unlikely to ever happen again our sons still have to register with selective services at 18. I'm not sure why they still do this but my guess is - If they were running low on soldiers they get drafted.

Regardless - it won't happen in this regional dispute. Only if it spreads far and wide and there are not enough men and women to fill the demand.

This is why they must register with Selective Service. It should also be noted that just because you register with the Selective Service does not mean you will be drafted. And if you are drafted you can still claim contentious objector status.

Selective Service System

The Selective Service System is an independent agency of the United States government that maintains information on those potentially subject to military conscription. Most male U.S. citizens and male immigrant non-citizens between the ages of 18 and 25 are required by law to have registered within 30 days of their 18th birthdays and must notify Selective Service within ten days of any changes to any of the information they provided on their registration cards, like a change of address.
A 2010 GAO report estimated the registration rate at 92% with the names and addresses of over 16.2 million men on file. Registration for Selective Service is also required for various federal programs and benefits, including student loans (such as FAFSA), job training, federal employment, and naturalization.

The Selective Service System provides the names of all registrants to the Joint Advertising Marketing Research & Studies (JAMRS) program for inclusion in the JAMRS Consolidated Recruitment Database. The names are distributed to the Services for recruiting purposes on a quarterly basis.

Salamandy
reply to post by Dianec

 

Sorry I just re-read your post and you mentioned that 18 year olds are required to sign up... so at that age my children can make that type of decision on their own. I just gotta do my job as a parent and they will be fine

It's not so much a decisions as they have to do it. No student loans, 5yrs in prison, $250,000 fine etc.

sean
I can't stop thinking about what Obama whispered to Putin that he would be more flexible in 2nd term. Here we are second term and Ukraine in upheaval and Putin sending troops in. Russia wants that port and will do anything to get it. This is all just to neat. Probably another government scandal. What a circus.

It wasn't Putin it was Medvedev that Obama whispered to about having more flexibility.

Campaign lies are not quite as convincing to the Russians.

Yet another situation where the rest of the world sits by and does nothing while a larger neighbour flexes its muscle...

Russia will get away with this as they did in Georgia

Kudes
Yet another situation where the rest of the world sits by and does nothing while a larger neighbour flexes its muscle...

Russia will get away with this as they did in Georgia

Georgia was Georgia's fault. Apples and Oranges

reply to post by doompornjunkie




true... seems excessive to send so much military muscle to 'protect' investments though.

reply to post by Salamandy


Hopefully by the time your son won't have to face a 250,000 fine or 5-years in prison. It's definitely a law. It's a bit antiquated though (IMO). If something happened we would all fight if it came to defending our Country (on our land).

I really hope this does not lead to anything. Last I read - China is just wanting to make some money so it appears they aren't taking sides. That is a good sign for now. But...that sleeping dragon is a little too quiet at times. I hope someone posts if they make a statement.

reply to post by doompornjunkie


Exactly and it should noted that even the Amish have to register contrary to popular belief. If you are a conscientious objector to combat they will find a noncombat capacity for you to serve in to support the war effort. During WWII Amish citizens were frequently put on domestic public works projects and worked in hospitals and sanatoriums treating returning wounded soldiers.

reply to post by TritonTaranis


Actually by agreement they an autonomous area within Ukraine with their own voice.

"The closest legal sources, which allow to determine the transfer of sovereignty on the territory of Sevastopol (and Crimea) in accordance with international standards of that time are Kuchuk Kaynarca agreement dated 10 July 1774, the Act of Accession of the Crimea and the Kuban region to Russia in 1783 and the Treaty of Jassy between Russia and Fountains in SevastopolTurkey on 29 December 1791".

ua-travelling.com...

So indeed they do have a voice in their own destiny. Ukraine long ago knew they had not the military nor fortitude to control an ethnic population largely loyal to Russia and gave them this control. I am not defending Putin's moves, simply pointing out that since he already had boots on the ground by agreement (monetary) with Ukraine that he is able to make the case that he is protecting Russian assets. This may be the best move possible as it was about to get ugly between Crimean ethnics and Ukraine's and would have blown up into full scale civil war. Again I am not defending the moves but see it as better than UN troops on the ground

reply to post by doompornjunkie


Right, so I see the name of the game and now I remember (I think) having to do so to get student loans.

OK, so hopefully they get full rides to ivy leaugues, if that is the path they choose. If not they will probably play the game but if it ever comes down to drafting or being called to duty against their will, that is not happening. In fact, I want to fight someone right now over the thought that some dumb ass military dude or jerk in gov thinks that someone will go to war for them just because they say so? HA

KeliOnyx
reply to post by doompornjunkie

 

Exactly and it should noted that even the Amish have to register contrary to popular belief. If you are a conscientious objector to combat they will find a noncombat capacity for you to serve in to support the war effort. During WWII Amish citizens were frequently put on domestic public works projects and worked in hospitals and sanatoriums treating returning wounded soldiers.

edit on 2-3-2014 by KeliOnyx because: (no reason given)

Exactly.. 'The Draft!!!' isn't as scary as it may seem. Some men will be happy to get shot at to defend their country, other won't and will be given safe jobs. After all, all man power is needed at that point, and they certainly don't want conscientious objectors getting in the way of combat ops.

FROM JENNIFER RAJCA, CANBERRA: Russian Ambassador Vladamir Morozov has left the DFAT building in Canberra side by side with an interpreter, claiming Neo-Nazi elements are coming to power in Ukraine.


Really?

ABNARTY
Gaining some perspective altitude on this, three great posts which helped me get a foothold here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thanks Bassago and ThePublicEnemyNo1

Try this viewpoint out: the west (read bankster controlled) has been courting Ukraine for some time. Russia see's this a threat to their interests in the region. Crimea holds many Russians and Russian military facilities. If Ukraine goes, the Crimea is not going with them. As Russia makes a move, Ukraine reaches out to those who have been selling them the Kool Aid for years. They put the oligarchs in power. A move orchestrated to demonstrate their willingness to play ball.

Honestly, I think the EU/US/et al do not want military action in the region. The oil flows from Russia. Without the oil, the pipelines generate no profit. Perhaps this was a miscalculation on their part. Putin and Russia are demonstrating they will not roll over on this one. NIMBY! Maybe they would accept the East/West partition but the cabal will pay for it. Kind of like if corporations had military's.

...what am I saying? That's exactly what this is.

Alright ATS, where am I screwed up?

That about covers it. I would add the one scenario people overlook in all of this, and that is the benefit of war itself to those who hate us peasants.

We assume that the powers that be lose if say Russia nukes the US, or We nuke Russia, but not too many people are thinking about the ultimate goal of our beloved leaders, and that is eradicate most of us. No better way that lots of radiation. Even if we just battle conventionally, the people sending us into this are never going to be on the firing line. They have their bunkers, and their backup plans.

Rome is bankrupt this week. Rome! China had a nice little terrorist attack, and I am sure sloppy clues will lead them back to CIA, and foster more hatred for Americans. The stock market is based on fluff, California is in drought, Ukraine lost all of their winter plantings, and surprisingly a huge beef recall has appeared, and all the meat is being taken from the shelves. Fukushima is poisoning our oceans, and GMO crops are being stockpiled en mass for us to feast ourselves to bits on. Soon the cities will begin to fall, and the crowds will start to fight one another, so war is a blessing to the elite because it keeps us fighting amongst ourselves, and not looking at them. It is a shame that Russia is taking the bait, now the waste of life begins. It seems like a bad 80's movie script; something Chuck Norris would be in. Breaks my heart, my sweetheart lives on the front lines, and there is nothing I can do but watch.

Thinking of you Viktoriya. Bad people do bad things and repel each other, but in the end the meek inherit the earth, because we are drawn to help one another.

AX
FTNWO

reply to post by Dianec


I'm seriously perplexed. Who the F cares what China thinks? They probably turned a knob on the pipeline to Sochi's main oil tanker once via the Knob Turners Agreement of 1784 but and you can also link them to Kevin Bacon in less than 6 degrees but so what?

The rest of the article...

Russia ‘quelling Neo-Nazi uprising’: Ambassador
FROM JENNIFER RAJCA, CANBERRA: Russian Ambassador Vladamir Morozov has left the DFAT building in Canberra side by side with an interpreter, claiming Neo-Nazi elements are coming to power in Ukraine.
“The current official Government in Kiev is just not fully legitimised government which represents the only interest of the crowd on Maidan Street,” he said.
“We clearly see the anti-Russian hysterical trends.”
“We also see the deprivation of the history of especially of the Second World War and that the ultra Nazis are coming to power in Kiev.”
He stressed he “cannot confirm” that any troops were on the Ukrainian territory, but admitted there are self-defence troops in Crimea.
Mr Morozov conceded he shares Australia’s concern about the situation.

Link.

Salamandy
reply to post by Dianec

 

i

Sorry I just re-read your post and you mentioned that 18 year olds are required to sign up... so at that age my children can make that type of decision on their own. I just gotta do my job as a parent and they will be fine

My own father went so far as to not get me a SS# because he was afraid of the draft. He ducked the draft by joining the Navy. I can only say that I am utterly amazed that so many place the value of their own life above so many others. Men and women will pay the ultimate sacrifice to protect a way of life that they dearly value, yet others will stand on the sideline (indulging in that very same way of life), and call those same brave souls schmucks for selflessly standing to defend the rights that so many take for granted. I have three sons, and even though the thought of war scares me, I would be greatly shamed if any of them cowered from their moral obligations, or worse, they didn't stand for what they believed in. I want to see my grand children born into a perfect world, but I will settle for the US I knew growing up, and I will fight to my last breathe to preserve that. The Russians seem to have this same moxi, and I dearly hope that the Ukrainians do as well, yet I have faith that enough Americans will rise up to protect that which we value most and not faulter in our darkest hour. As for me and mine, we will say our prayers for the brave souls that stand in harms way tonight.

doompornjunkie

KeliOnyx
reply to post by doompornjunkie

 

Some men will be happy to get shot at to defend their country, other won't and will be given safe jobs.

I disagree. I do not think the same type of propaganda works to justify taking bullets or shooting bullets as it did during say WWII. Too many outlets exposing war for what it is - basically, utter BS. Only a very small percentage of the population agree to contributing to any war effort. In short, borders are becoming obsolete.

reply to post by Kudes


You need to be putting your source in that post.

DJMSN
reply to post by TritonTaranis

 

Actually by agreement they an autonomous area within Ukraine with their own voice.

"The closest legal sources, which allow to determine the transfer of sovereignty on the territory of Sevastopol (and Crimea) in accordance with international standards of that time are Kuchuk Kaynarca agreement dated 10 July 1774, the Act of Accession of the Crimea and the Kuban region to Russia in 1783 and the Treaty of Jassy between Russia and Fountains in SevastopolTurkey on 29 December 1791".

ua-travelling.com...

So indeed they do have a voice in their own destiny. Ukraine long ago knew they had not the military nor fortitude to control an ethnic population largely loyal to Russia and gave them this control. I am not defending Putin's moves, simply pointing out that since he already had boots on the ground by agreement (monetary) with Ukraine that he is able to make the case that he is protecting Russian assets. This may be the best move possible as it was about to get ugly between Crimean ethnics and Ukraine's and would have blown up into full scale civil war. Again I am not defending the moves but see it as better than UN troops on the ground

your going all the way back to the austrian empire to show they have autonomy alots happened since then. In fact Ukraine wasnt even a country it was separated into individual districts which included poland as well. You cant say they have autonomy when the agreements were signed by an empire no longer in existence. It be like you claiming italy has to follow an agreement because the Roman Empire signed it. Doesnt make any sense whatsoever does it?

reply to post by KeliOnyx


Sorry mate, im new and not sure on all the particulars...

it was from www.news.com.au... 2ev-1226843109609