Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

Dolby_X
reply to post by statifik

 

very well armed and equip militia... : / call it for what they are Russian with no id !

Because it is the real power that cares about people, not a bunch of bandits Banderivtsy. We do not see any confirmation of Russian troops in Ukraine, except unsubstantiated allegations. And it really pisses West. They do not like the autonomous republics, Russian sympathizers.

www.pravda.com.ua...

"The decision of the Federation Council March 1, 2014 for the use of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to increase tension in the region and harm peace and stability in the international community. Japan expresses serious concern and concern at the decision", - stated in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said China on Sunday in Beijing that China respects the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, reports Xinhua.
China "has long adhered to the principle of non-interference in internal affairs," he added. However, the right to express dissatisfaction with the actions of, he did not.
The diplomat also urged the parties to resolve the conflict through dialogue and negotiations on the basis of respect for international law and international relations in order to ensure peace and stability in the region.

statifik

90% of law enforcement officers stationed in the Crimea, went over to the authorities of the peninsula. The chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic Sergey Aksenov . Oath of allegiance to the inhabitants of autonomy and brought the heads of key departments . Solemn oath given in Simferopol Crimea security chief , the head of the Main Department of Internal Affairs of the autonomous republic , head of the emergency services , as well as acting chief frontier . A little earlier in Sevastopol oath Crimeans brought commander of the naval forces of Ukraine Denis Berezovsky, who was appointed to the post of Kiev a few days ago . Already announced that he will lead the Navy created the Crimea. Today should be a decision on the formation of the Ministry of Defense . At the same time as the Prime Minister of Crimea , no prosecution of those who do not go to the side of autonomy , will not. " Not a single soldier who does not agree today to take the oath of the Crimean autonomy , will not be charged with any crime , I'll guarantee you . This all military will retain all payments , benefits, all statutory Packages pensions. Nobody gets hurt . we are only talking about cases where soldiers refusing to obey orders , his actions bring harm to life and health of people. Then, of course , all of this will be investigated in the framework of the law , "- he said. Sergey Aksenov also noted that the government of the autonomous republic in full control of the situation in Crimea. In particular, the self-defense forces occupied all the arsenals . Roads duty soldiers and combatants "Berkut" .

So, as far as we see we have no russian troops in Ukraine. We see spontaneously created militias Crimea from illegitimate power in Kiev. Any attempt to break this power on the Crimean peninsula could be considered military intervention bandits on the autonomous republic.

I remember seeing on tv that there was to number plates on the army trucks nor any banners on the uniform.

doompornjunkie

Dolby_X
reply to post by statifik

 

very well armed and equip militia... : / call it for what they are Russian with no id !

Amen! whats with all this 'well technically they aren't Russian' stuff? They came from Russia with guns! Russia would have disowned them if they weren't really Russian. It would make things simpler if we just called it like it is... across the whole board.

Please learn the history. The overwhelming majority of the population of Crimea - Russian. Crimea was transferred to Ukraine in 1954, in violation of the internal constitution of the USSR, Khrushchev's unilateral decision.
Referring to the current state of the population, according to official censuses of population:
1897 total population of 762,804. Ukrainians - 61112. Russian - 404,463
2001 total population of 2,413,228 Ukrainians - Russian 576647 - 1450394.

What is surprising is that the Crimea wants to be with Russia, not Ukraine?

Crimean Prime Minister Sergei Aksenov announced the creation of the Naval Forces of the Crimea and the appointment of their former commander of the Ukrainian Navy head Denis Berezovsky accused the Prosecutor General of Ukraine in " treason ." Appropriate order , he read at a press conference on March 2. "All soldiers of the Ukrainian Navy , serving on the territory of Sevastopol, considered not enforceable in any decisions , orders and instructions of the self-proclaimed authorities and officials of Ukraine. Do not take any orders to use weapons to give my special instructions . Ensure strict compliance with the performance of my orders as the supreme commander of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol " - said in order Aksenov. As previously reported IA REGNUM, in the Crimea , the Ukrainian military massively write a letter of resignation and move to the side of self-defense forces , who take control of abandoned Ukrainian military units . March 2 , Rear Admiral Denis Berezovsky swore allegiance to the people of Crimea.

reply to post by statifik


Sorry, it is you that should learn the history. You oly quoted a modern day version of it, negating the long history of the region.

Crimea: a pro-Russian territory that needs to be protected for the sake of the Russian speaking people there. Why is it a pro-Russian territory? Uh well...no one wants to talk about that. It's implied that the territory was always Russian and has a long heritage of being Russian. Not so.

The Crimean Khanate was founded in 1441 after a series of invasions of the area and was populated by muslim turks. The Tartars ruled the area for much of this time until Russia annexed Crimea in 1783 after the end of the Russo-Turkish War. There was tension between the Tartars and the Russian Empire, but w/e.

In 1853 the Crimean War broke out between Russia and the Ottoman Empire (which was falling apart). England and France rushed to the aide of the Ottoman Empire to protect Christians in the region and stop the spread of Russian influence into the Ottoman territories. The war ended with Russian defeat in 1856. But it's worth noting that at this point nearly 70-80% of the population of Crimea was still Tartars. The result was major war debts owed by Russia. So severe that they had to sell Alaska to the United States (1867) and it sent the Tsarist regime into a tumble that would ultimately sink the Russian Empire. Also many Russians felt the Tartars had been loyal to the Ottomans, and indeed many Tartars fought on the Ottoman side. Tension between the two groups grew.

As the Russian Empire collapsed, the Bolsheviks started the Red Revolution. The White Army, which opposed the Red Army, made it's last stand in Crimea. The Bolsheviks decided that to supplement the food necessities of the rest of Mother Russia they'd ship off the produce and farm products of Ukraine and Crimea to Russia proper. They did this to the extent that in 1920-1922 famine ravished the Crimean region. The Bolsheviks were not fans of the Tartars and systematically tried to remove them from Crimea.
This worked to some extent and by the 1930's the Tartar population had declined to around 30% of the population.

When Stalin took power, it was all over for the Tartars. He despised them and when the Nazi's took over the region in WWII he figured they had conspired to assist the Nazi's. Without much proof Stalin decided that he would start immediate deportations of the Tartars to Central Asia. The KGB (or equivalent of the time) showed up and deported ~200,000 Tartars out of the region. They were given 20-30 minutes to collect their things and shipped off to Central Asia in cattle cars. Which is why Tartarstan exists today. Ironically it's one of the most productive Russian Federation Territories. Tartar members of the Red Army who were fighting in WWII were shipped off to Gulags in Sibera and the Urals.
At this point (early to mid-1950's) the Tartar population ceased to exist in Crimea. The Russians had taken over the territory and in 1954 Crimea was given to the Ukraine (then a soviet republic). The extermination of the native people was complete. BUTTTT....after the collapse of the Soviet Union Tartars began emigrating back to the region and now comprise about 10% of the population.

So the next time you see in the news where they refer to Crimea as "predominantly Russian" there's a reason for that. It's based in History. The region hasn't historically been Russian. They just want the base of their Black Sea Fleet secure.

Melbourne_Militia
reply to post by statifik

 

Sorry, it is you that should learn the history. You oly quoted a modern day version of it, negating the long history of the region.

Crimea: a pro-Russian territory that needs to be protected for the sake of the Russian speaking people there. Why is it a pro-Russian territory? Uh well...no one wants to talk about that. It's implied that the territory was always Russian and has a long heritage of being Russian. Not so.

The Crimean Khanate was founded in 1441 after a series of invasions of the area and was populated by muslim turks. The Tartars ruled the area for much of this time until Russia annexed Crimea in 1783 after the end of the Russo-Turkish War. There was tension between the Tartars and the Russian Empire, but w/e.

In 1853 the Crimean War broke out between Russia and the Ottoman Empire (which was falling apart). England and France rushed to the aide of the Ottoman Empire to protect Christians in the region and stop the spread of Russian influence into the Ottoman territories. The war ended with Russian defeat in 1856. But it's worth noting that at this point nearly 70-80% of the population of Crimea was still Tartars. The result was major war debts owed by Russia. So severe that they had to sell Alaska to the United States (1867) and it sent the Tsarist regime into a tumble that would ultimately sink the Russian Empire. Also many Russians felt the Tartars had been loyal to the Ottomans, and indeed many Tartars fought on the Ottoman side. Tension between the two groups grew.

As the Russian Empire collapsed, the Bolsheviks started the Red Revolution. The White Army, which opposed the Red Army, made it's last stand in Crimea. The Bolsheviks decided that to supplement the food necessities of the rest of Mother Russia they'd ship off the produce and farm products of Ukraine and Crimea to Russia proper. They did this to the extent that in 1920-1922 famine ravished the Crimean region. The Bolsheviks were not fans of the Tartars and systematically tried to remove them from Crimea.
This worked to some extent and by the 1930's the Tartar population had declined to around 30% of the population.

When Stalin took power, it was all over for the Tartars. He despised them and when the Nazi's took over the region in WWII he figured they had conspired to assist the Nazi's. Without much proof Stalin decided that he would start immediate deportations of the Tartars to Central Asia. The KGB (or equivalent of the time) showed up and deported ~200,000 Tartars out of the region. They were given 20-30 minutes to collect their things and shipped off to Central Asia in cattle cars. Which is why Tartarstan exists today. Ironically it's one of the most productive Russian Federation Territories. Tartar members of the Red Army who were fighting in WWII were shipped off to Gulags in Sibera and the Urals.
At this point (early to mid-1950's) the Tartar population ceased to exist in Crimea. The Russians had taken over the territory and in 1954 Crimea was given to the Ukraine (then a soviet republic). The extermination of the native people was complete. BUTTTT....after the collapse of the Soviet Union Tartars began emigrating back to the region and now comprise about 10% of the population.

So the next time you see in the news where they refer to Crimea as "predominantly Russian" there's a reason for that. It's based in History. The region hasn't historically been Russian. They just want the base of their Black Sea Fleet secure.

This article is nothing to say. You do "sophistry" and demagoguery. The presence of the Crimean Tatars on the peninsula, no one denies. But they are a minority in relation to the Russian. I do not see what you own calculations from unknown sources refute the official population figures on the Crimean peninsula, namely the Russian people in the Crimea, the vast majority also do not see anything that can, according to your avatar and nickname, so actively interested persons from Ukraine Australia, if you just are not immigrants.

Dolby_X
reply to post by Melbourne_Militia

 

ultimatum end in 30 minutes

Looks like the ultimatum deadline passed about 8 minutes ago. Anyone know if anything is happening on that, one way or another?

statifik

90% of law enforcement officers stationed in the Crimea, went over to the authorities of the peninsula. The chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic Sergey Aksenov . Oath of allegiance to the inhabitants of autonomy and brought the heads of key departments . Solemn oath given in Simferopol Crimea security chief , the head of the Main Department of Internal Affairs of the autonomous republic , head of the emergency services , as well as acting chief frontier . A little earlier in Sevastopol oath Crimeans brought commander of the naval forces of Ukraine Denis Berezovsky, who was appointed to the post of Kiev a few days ago . Already announced that he will lead the Navy created the Crimea. Today should be a decision on the formation of the Ministry of Defense . At the same time as the Prime Minister of Crimea , no prosecution of those who do not go to the side of autonomy , will not. " Not a single soldier who does not agree today to take the oath of the Crimean autonomy , will not be charged with any crime , I'll guarantee you . This all military will retain all payments , benefits, all statutory Packages pensions. Nobody gets hurt . we are only talking about cases where soldiers refusing to obey orders , his actions bring harm to life and health of people. Then, of course , all of this will be investigated in the framework of the law , "- he said. Sergey Aksenov also noted that the government of the autonomous republic in full control of the situation in Crimea. In particular, the self-defense forces occupied all the arsenals . Roads duty soldiers and combatants "Berkut" .

So, as far as we see we have no russian troops in Ukraine. We see spontaneously created militias Crimea from illegitimate power in Kiev. Any attempt to break this power on the Crimean peninsula could be considered military intervention bandits on the autonomous republic.

Those troops at the airport were carrying AK 105s this is a weapon carried by Russian spetsnaz not something you would find in Ukraine. Ukraine had made a version of the AK 74 called Vepr. There is no doubt this was Russian troops unless you think somehow someone broke into the russian base and stole them from a special forces unit. I find this scenario highly unlikely Russia is not fooling anyone trust me if i noticed what they were using dont you think every western country knows as well? They are Russian troops spetsnaz are easily identifiable.

statifik

doompornjunkie

Dolby_X
reply to post by statifik

 

very well armed and equip militia... : / call it for what they are Russian with no id !

Amen! whats with all this 'well technically they aren't Russian' stuff? They came from Russia with guns! Russia would have disowned them if they weren't really Russian. It would make things simpler if we just called it like it is... across the whole board.

Please learn the history. The overwhelming majority of the population of Crimea - Russian. Crimea was transferred to Ukraine in 1954, in violation of the internal constitution of the USSR, Khrushchev's unilateral decision.
Referring to the current state of the population, according to official censuses of population:
1897 total population of 762,804. Ukrainians - 61112. Russian - 404,463
2001 total population of 2,413,228 Ukrainians - Russian 576647 - 1450394.

What is surprising is that the Crimea wants to be with Russia, not Ukraine?

edit on 2-3-2014 by statifik because: (no reason given)

You completely and utterly missed the point. Try reading the post before you go rambling on.

ikonoklast

Dolby_X
reply to post by Melbourne_Militia

 

ultimatum end in 30 minutes

Looks like the ultimatum deadline passed about 8 minutes ago. Anyone know if anything is happening on that, one way or another?

Ukraine does not have a nuclear weapon. This was taken care of Russia and other countries of the "nuclear club." Ultimatum, as well as the hysterical post about it, there is no confirmed fiction.

Dolby_X
www.pravda.com.ua...

"The decision of the Federation Council March 1, 2014 for the use of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to increase tension in the region and harm peace and stability in the international community. Japan expresses serious concern and concern at the decision", - stated in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said China on Sunday in Beijing that China respects the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, reports Xinhua.
China "has long adhered to the principle of non-interference in internal affairs," he added. However, the right to express dissatisfaction with the actions of, he did not.
The diplomat also urged the parties to resolve the conflict through dialogue and negotiations on the basis of respect for international law and international relations in order to ensure peace and stability in the region.

And Russia gets a knife in the back for their failure to acknowledge China's claims in the south china sea.China wants to continue their relationship with Ukraine and it is apparently more important than their relationship with Russia.

reply to post by ikonoklast


I sincerely hope the Russian troops have not stormed any of the bases or engaged in combat.

“The situation is very serious — the Russian army is blocking military bases of Ukraine in Crimea. … They issued an ultimatum demanding that our soldiers disarm themselves or the bases will be stormed,” said Ukraine’s interim president and parliament speaker, Oleksandr Turchinov, on Sunday.

Link: dailymessenger.com.pk... erry-heads-to-kiev/

reply to post by statifik


I meant the ultimatum for Ukrainian troops inside the Ukrainian base (in Sevastopol, I think) that was (is?) surrounded by Russian military (or some unknown force with no insignias but equipped like Russian military) and that was allegedly given until 8 AM to surrender their weapons or else.

I understand that Ukraine allegedly has no nuclear weapons thanks to the Budapest Memorandum.

dragonridr

statifik

90% of law enforcement officers stationed in the Crimea, went over to the authorities of the peninsula. The chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Autonomous Republic Sergey Aksenov . Oath of allegiance to the inhabitants of autonomy and brought the heads of key departments . Solemn oath given in Simferopol Crimea security chief , the head of the Main Department of Internal Affairs of the autonomous republic , head of the emergency services , as well as acting chief frontier . A little earlier in Sevastopol oath Crimeans brought commander of the naval forces of Ukraine Denis Berezovsky, who was appointed to the post of Kiev a few days ago . Already announced that he will lead the Navy created the Crimea. Today should be a decision on the formation of the Ministry of Defense . At the same time as the Prime Minister of Crimea , no prosecution of those who do not go to the side of autonomy , will not. " Not a single soldier who does not agree today to take the oath of the Crimean autonomy , will not be charged with any crime , I'll guarantee you . This all military will retain all payments , benefits, all statutory Packages pensions. Nobody gets hurt . we are only talking about cases where soldiers refusing to obey orders , his actions bring harm to life and health of people. Then, of course , all of this will be investigated in the framework of the law , "- he said. Sergey Aksenov also noted that the government of the autonomous republic in full control of the situation in Crimea. In particular, the self-defense forces occupied all the arsenals . Roads duty soldiers and combatants "Berkut" .

So, as far as we see we have no russian troops in Ukraine. We see spontaneously created militias Crimea from illegitimate power in Kiev. Any attempt to break this power on the Crimean peninsula could be considered military intervention bandits on the autonomous republic.

Those troops at the airport were carrying AK 105s this is a weapon carried by Russian spetsnaz not something you would find in Ukraine. Ukraine had made a version of the AK 74 called Vepr. There is no doubt this was Russian troops unless you think somehow someone broke into the russian base and stole them from a special forces unit. I find this scenario highly unlikely Russia is not fooling anyone trust me if i noticed what they were using dont you think every western country knows as well? They are Russian troops spetsnaz are easily identifiable.

Identification of weapons must pass international expertise, and not an evaluation on a photo. It can be characterized as the supply of arms to the most worst case for Russia. We can say that the Crimeans found a hidden warehouse of weapons in their territory or prompted them where to find it. By the way, as did the U.S. and NATO in Syria and Libya, supplying weapons and equipment to terrorists. We do not see anywhere decals armed forces of the Russian Federation. Therefore, we can build any number of conspiracy theories.

dragonridr

Dolby_X
www.pravda.com.ua...

"The decision of the Federation Council March 1, 2014 for the use of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to increase tension in the region and harm peace and stability in the international community. Japan expresses serious concern and concern at the decision", - stated in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said China on Sunday in Beijing that China respects the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, reports Xinhua.
China "has long adhered to the principle of non-interference in internal affairs," he added. However, the right to express dissatisfaction with the actions of, he did not.
The diplomat also urged the parties to resolve the conflict through dialogue and negotiations on the basis of respect for international law and international relations in order to ensure peace and stability in the region.

And Russia gets a knife in the back for their failure to acknowledge China's claims in the south china sea.China wants to continue their relationship with Ukraine and it is apparently more important than their relationship with Russia.

Of course, China is more necessary Ukraine) The maximum that he can squeeze in Ukraine - it's a bit of grain. The country has almost completely destroyed the production, and after squatting power in Kiev, as I believe Ukraine will slide into an agrarian country. And of course, China is completely uninteresting Russian with huge oil and gas supplies to China, as well as the survival of the Northern Provinces of China only through trade with Russia. Russia's trade with China within 7 - 9 places Ukraine in the top ten is not even visible))

Ok apparently Obama made a decision and it looks like hes supporting Kiev.Hes sending Kerry there to make some promises you can tell when they go for in person private talks they dont want a record of the conversation.

John Kerry flies to Kiev as Russia faces mounting global outcry

He will meet on Tuesday with the new Ukrainian leadership and the parliament to "reaffirm the United States' strong support for Ukrainian sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity," State Department spokesman Jen Psaki said in a statement.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

There is also an unusual move in Russia the banks are buying up US dollars for 38.5 rubles and stoped sales of rubles and i cant figure out why they're doing this.One bank was offering 40 on sunday the exchange rate was 35 just yesterday so they are offering a heck of a deal since the highest its ever been is 36.

reply to post by dragonridr


Do you think the banks are anticipating a US military action that would harm the Russian economy. yet help the US economy?? That is strange indeed, I was under the impression the Russians and Chinese wanted to devalue our currency.

Or even economic action against Russia that would stop their export of NG making the USA's NG even more valuable...

statifik

dragonridr

Dolby_X
www.pravda.com.ua...

"The decision of the Federation Council March 1, 2014 for the use of the Armed Forces of Ukraine to increase tension in the region and harm peace and stability in the international community. Japan expresses serious concern and concern at the decision", - stated in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said China on Sunday in Beijing that China respects the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, reports Xinhua.
China "has long adhered to the principle of non-interference in internal affairs," he added. However, the right to express dissatisfaction with the actions of, he did not.
The diplomat also urged the parties to resolve the conflict through dialogue and negotiations on the basis of respect for international law and international relations in order to ensure peace and stability in the region.

And Russia gets a knife in the back for their failure to acknowledge China's claims in the south china sea.China wants to continue their relationship with Ukraine and it is apparently more important than their relationship with Russia.

Of course, China is more necessary Ukraine) The maximum that he can squeeze in Ukraine - it's a bit of grain. The country has almost completely destroyed the production, and after squatting power in Kiev, as I believe Ukraine will slide into an agrarian country. And of course, China is completely uninteresting Russian with huge oil and gas supplies to China, as well as the survival of the Northern Provinces of China only through trade with Russia. Russia's trade with China within 7 - 9 places Ukraine in the top ten is not even visible))

You lost me on what you were trying to say but the reason Ukraine is important isnt only food which to Cina is more important than oil. But also Ukraine is deeply involved in weapons manufacturing in China.Where do you think there new aircraft carrier came from? there navy is highly dependant on Ukraine for their expertise and manufacturing.And there airforce is deeply in bed with Antonov aviation for engines for their aircraft.

This is crazy, because both sides seem to have pretty legit arguments in their favor. It's impossible to tell who have the upper ground here. NATO involvement is the big question.