Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

Most of Ukrainian fleet in Crimea returned to Odessa:

Ships under the flags of Ukraine came from the bay in the direction of Odessa Donuzlav

Another six Ukrainian warships left the Crimea

Morning , April 19 , the majority of ships and support vessels of the Naval Forces of Ukraine , which had previously been based on Lake Donuzlav raised Ukrainian flags and headed to the port of Odessa , reports fleet.sebastopol.ua.

In particular, as a result of agreements reached between the defense ministries of Ukraine and Russia South naval base in the village Novoozernoe , which was seized by Russian special forces , left middle landing ship " Kirovograd " ASW corvette " Vinnitsa " gunboat " Kherson " tug " Kovel , " tanker " Gorlivka " and tow boat" Novoozernoe . "

This became possible after the court auxiliary fleet Black Sea Fleet Russia started to take action to unblock exit Donuzlav lake .

Recall that on the night of March 6 to the Ukrainian Navy ships could not go to sea , the Russian military at the outlet of Lake Donuzlav flooded large anti-submarine ship " Ochakov " rescue diving boat "Shakhtar" and two support ships .

This week in Odessa Ukrainian seamen have been withdrawn from the tanker ports in Crimea "Sudak " mooring tenders " Shostka " command ship "Donbass " missile boat " Pryłuki " tanker " Fast" and the ship degaussing " Balta " .

www.segodnya.ua...

Well my position was pro-Russia as you know over this but this has now changed.

The USA could get everyone in the Ukraine to raise an american flag tomorrow if they gave the government $20bn tomorrow but what they are doing is dragging them along over a mere $1bn loan guarantee

It's peanuts folks because the USA spends about $3bn a day on it's war machine but making it look like we need to reequip our defenses will soon push that $3bn a day to $4bn and you suckers get to pick up the bill.

Just why did Russia allow the USA a corridor into Afghanistan to ship in 35,000 vehicles and is it not somewhat convenient to shut that door as the USA retreats and apparently it's cheaper to throw a match to these vehicles than flying them out.

The military contractors in the USA have been given an early birthday present don't you think.

Looking at Oil well they played the Iran is about to close the straights for about a year and then forgot to remind me 24/7 about it so I forgot but it did help to push oil prices up didn't it folks.

Iran/USA/Russia all profit from higher oil prices and with that idiot Obama reading his scripts and coming out with some Bulls-Ear about "Our weapons are better that your" only adds fuel to the fire and then I read that Exon, Bp, Shell all have agreements with Russia and are drilling and pumping oil out of Russia as we speak.

Sanctions ? Not a hope in hell of that happening apart from Putin's grandmother not being allowed to fly over to New York for a days shopping.

I am not asking you to believe me now but when this all blows over without a major confutation and the hot air clears then do remember my words as taxes go up, pump prices go up and the mega services you get from the state goes down and then come and tell me I am wrong.

A piece of info on one of the pro-Russian people's deputy in Gorlovka, claiming he is really a Russian actor from Moscow. I, myself, can't acces the site, but maybe others will:

Hans de Vreij @hdevreij
#Ukraine MT @kandelakigiorgi: Pro-Russia 'people's deputy' in #Gorlovka is in fact a professional actor form Moscow (link tracking not allowed)/Ry2TbG

Current OSCE report: pro-#Kremlin forces in eastern #Ukraine aren't going anywhere, #Geneva agreement not implemented osce.org/node/117859

Here is an interesting video that I haven't seen posted...



Now I can't say how legit this info is, but at the 6:52 mark there is what claims to be a LT.Col of the Russian Army.

If this is true there will be no way of saying the Russian Army isn't in Ukraine.

Ukraine Accord Doubts Grow as Protesters Refuse to Disarm


Popularity of Russia in the East / South Ukraine

Some 77 percent of people in eight eastern and southern Ukrainian regions are against armed protesters taking over local administrative buildings, Kiev-based weekly Zerkalo Nedeli reported, citing a poll it commissioned from the Kiev International Institute of Sociology.

Only 7 percent of those surveyed said they would definitely support their region joining Russia, while 54 percent were definitely opposed, according to the survey.

Finance

Russian stocks rose the most in more than three weeks yesterday in Moscow, paring this year's decline to 9.8 percent. The ruble weakened as investors have been selling Russian securities, causing the currency to depreciate 7.6 percent against the dollar this year.

The Ruble is continuing to get pummeled.

As I stated before about Russia's motive. Russia is desperately trying to secure those areas before the May Presidential elections. The question on autonomy / greater control by regional governments must be answered before the elections if Russia is going to pull it off.

The poll above, and the results, is what I believe Putin is not wanting to happen. If those regions declare independence and Russia moves in you will see another election like Crimea - Where 99.5% of the people "support" Russia. If the poll above is in fact accurate, it makes one wonder about the results in Crimea.

If the vote for greater autonomy occurs the same day as the Presidential elections, which would be overseen by Kiev, I don't think Russia would "win" the vote.

Putin will move into Ukraine before the Presidential elections. He has to since he can't back down.

a reply to: zilebeliveunknown

So it's not of a shock to you?

Casualties of war? No, they aren't a shock to me. They aren't pleasant nor a something I enjoy knowing about, but they don't shock me. Mostly because I'm a History teacher and I actual know historical facts further down the time line than most people and I can recall that people have been dying in wars since... ever.

But no... It doesn't surprise me that a military force ends up killing people, directly or by collateral damage.

Sooner or later whoever ordered bombs to be dropped on civilians will be tried, they will face justice and no mercy will be showed to them.

Before trialling the NATO commanders that ordered strategic strikes that ended up killing innocent civilians, I want the people who used those civilians (women and children) as human-shields to be hanged. Then you can sum up the NATO commanders and generals and trial them accordingly to civilized and military law.

And spare me of idiotic terms such as 'collateral damage', innocent lives has been lost and that is sufficient to me.

With all due respect, the only thing idiotic about collateral damage is your understanding of it.

If strategic strikes with possible collateral damage, are that bad, then please... Feel free to give a suggestion of how such situations should be handled. Maybe a full-scale invasion? Soldiers on the ground, armored vehicles occupying the streets...

That's surely better than a single UAV hovering above a target and dropping a single missile, right? (/sarcasm)

But there isn't one. Nato is only one with rivers of blood flowing from their hands.

Basically what you are saying with that is that you don't know much about History and you lack the knowledge to back your emotional response. It's okay...

NATO has done bad things, and some operations were more about monetary gains than for the right reasons(recent years, mostly). But they are still a hell lot better than any other military organization, present or past.

Don't put in the same bag operations that were used to please A, B or C oil company, with other operations that are done for the good of the people or to take down criminals. Even with all their mistakes, NATO is far better to it's members and others, than any similar organization before it.

If you can't see that, go grab a book instead of coming into the forum spewing demagogy to those who are more knowledgeable than you. NATO kills 10 people and saves 1000 or 100,000. There are groups out there that kill 50 people a day with suicide bombings and rage-attacks and people like you don't even bat an eyelid because you are so busy talking crap about Western nations.

There is no such thing as nations being born recently.

South Sudan might disagree with you.

They were in one point in history on their own before their liberties has been usurped by others. And we're talking hundereds of regions in Europe only.

As an historian, I'm actually curious to hear you dissertation about that.

Just out of curiosity, are you living in Europe?

Do you realise that there is no legal possibilities for any of them to manifest their will? That is why # like in Ukraine happens.

There doesn't need to be a legal possibility.

If 90% or even 70% or the population goes out to the street and make manifestations towards independence, do you think anyone would oppose them?

They could, if they wanted a new Tibet, or East-Timor story, where they would be painted as murderers.

Ukraine is a complicated case, much larger than a simple people's choice. Especially because it's exactly the people who are divided. We will only know what really is happening backstage inside Ukraine in 10 or 15 years, like usually happens.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

There are claims on the net that the "Colonel" is nothing more than a local crime boss. It was addressed several pages back.

a reply to: ProfessorT

That explains the tweet from the Acting Ukraine president.

They released a statement that Ukrainian helicopters would be operating over the weekend to secure airspace.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 19m
Helicopters from airfield near Kramatorsk, #Donetsk region patrol airspace over Slovyansk and other places |EMPR pic.twitter.com/PmQ8PhOmZZ

a reply to: GarrusVasNormandy

Casualties of war? No, they aren't a shock to me.

Innocent casualties of war aren't shock to you??? WTH?
Do you know you're a psychopath?

Mostly because I'm a History teacher and I actual know historical facts further down the time line than most people and I can recall that people have been dying in wars since... ever.

Well that explains everything then. You're reading from the "historical" books, where you're finding justification for innocent civilians to get killed in wars. Ok.
You know nothing.
I would ask you the same thing after something similar happens to you!

Before trialling the NATO commanders that ordered strategic strikes that ended up killing innocent civilians, I want the people who used those civilians (women and children) as human-shields to be hanged. Then you can sum up the NATO commanders and generals and trial them accordingly to civilized and military law.

So you presume that every civilian that died in wars was a human-shield??? And you are a teacher???
What a nonsense. I knew you would come up with something like this.
Plese return your diploma.

If you can't see that, go grab a book instead of coming into the forum spewing demagogy to those who are more knowledgeable than you.

Why would I need a book?
I have been in two wars, I saw first hand what wars do to people.
It's rather you that spewing demagogy, reading from the books and think you know it all. You don't know #.

And as I said.
You're showing lack of empathy, your caracter is close to being psychopathic.
And I'm sure I don't want to have any further conversation with you.
Have a nice Easter

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ProfessorT

That explains the tweet from the Acting Ukraine president.

They released a statement that Ukrainian helicopters would be operating over the weekend to secure airspace.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 19m
Helicopters from airfield near Kramatorsk, #Donetsk region patrol airspace over Slovyansk and other places |EMPR pic.twitter.com/PmQ8PhOmZZ

I think were starting to see a change in tactics from Kiev i was actually wondering why they hadnt done this already. Secure up the airspace so russia cant drop in more green men. Then secure the borders to make sure no males who could be russian provocateurs cross. The final stage is you start setting up checkpoints and simply make sure everyone that passes through is a Ukrainian citizen. Once this is done i guarantee incidents will decrease.

originally posted by: dragonridr


I think were starting to see a change in tactics from Kiev i was actually wondering why they hadnt done this already. Secure up the airspace so russia cant drop in more green men. Then secure the borders to make sure no males who could be russian provocateurs cross. The final stage is you start setting up checkpoints and simply make sure everyone that passes through is a Ukrainian citizen. Once this is done i guarantee incidents will decrease.

The checkpoints are up and going according to the various Ukraine sources of information (Ukrainian checkpoints that is). Kiev passed a measure that barred the entrance of Russian males between certain ages from entering the country (which completely pissed of Russia - gee I wonder why).

The airspace issue finally is getting caught up. Kiev seems more willing to use their air assets.

Hopefully it has the desired affect to end this mess ( I won't be holding my breath).

a reply to: Dutzy

There are claims on the net that the "Colonel" is nothing more than a local crime boss. It was addressed several pages back

That's why I said I didn't know how legit the info was, and because there are so many pages it's hard to get back and read them all.

I guess crime does pay well, at least it does in a country on the brink of war.

Whether the 'Colonel' is legitimate or not we have seen plenty of evidence to prove that Russian soldiers are operating in Eastern Ukraine, just as they did in Crimea. General Breedlove pointed out the very good point that the way buildings were being seized was in a very professional and well-thought out manner. The way the soldiers were holding their guns and the communication going on between them. Anyone who thinks these fellas are your normal militia group must think Father Christmas still delivers their presents.

a reply to: Xcathdra

No sorry I cannot let you run with that one.

The poll above, and the results, is what I believe Putin is not wanting to happen. If those regions declare independence and Russia moves in you will see another election like Crimea - Where 99.5% of the people "support" Russia. If the poll above is in fact accurate, it makes one wonder about the results in Crimea.

96% voted to join Russia and outside observers gave the vote a clean bill of health so nice try but the facts are against you.

if the Ukraine can organize a vote in a few days then so could the Ukraine and this is what the people in the east are protesting about so saying Putin wants to stop the vote kind of looks silly if pro-Russians, anti USA/EU in the east are being killed just to get a vote.

Remember we were told that everyone in the Ukraine hated Russia so I would question "If the poll above is in fact accurate" and even if just 30% of the public in the Crimea felt the election was fixed then it would be all over our news stations.

Reporters are not being stopped from entering the Crimea, They are being stopped from entering the Ukraine

originally posted by: ProfessorT
Whether the 'Colonel' is legitimate or not we have seen plenty of evidence to prove that Russian soldiers are operating in Eastern Ukraine, just as they did in Crimea. General Breedlove pointed out the very good point that the way buildings were being seized was in a very professional and well-thought out manner. The way the soldiers were holding their guns and the communication going on between them. Anyone who thinks these fellas are your normal militia group must think Father Christmas still delivers their presents.

True Kiev even released some captured documents from Russian provocateurs showing who they were and who they worked for.Theres no doubt Russia is stirring up trouble in eastern Ukraine and well in the end its going to hurt them. The international community is turning Russia into an outcast they think the world needs them i think they're going to find out otherwise.

a reply to: zilebeliveunknown

Innocent casualties of war aren't shock to you??? WTH?

Considering that since Humanity was able to pick up a piece of bone and throw it to the head of another human we're capable of inflicting pain, death and suffering... Again I reply to your question, no, casualties of war conflicts don't surprise me.

I will, however, be tremendously surprised the day we have a war where not a single bullet hits a single person, and not a single civilian or soldier is killed. THAT will surprise me, because it never happened before.

Do you know you're a psychopath?

Do you know that you are unable to have any proper reading/interpretation skills?

You're reading from the "historical" books, where you're finding justification for innocent civilians to get killed in wars.

Yes, I read historical books. But I don't stop there. Psychology, Sociology and Economics are also areas I'm interested in.

Do you have any suggestion as to how I could cultivate my knowledge if not with the literature of the world geniuses before me? Maybe you have found a new method of knowledge, better and more functional than the whole scientific community?

Let me guess. You've never been through college, have you?

I would ask you the same thing after something similar happens to you!

I became a history teacher because I envied my colleagues in school while growing up, with their stories about their grandparents and where they came from, where their names came from. I dived into books looking for History because I never had my own, I grew up alone.

Why? Because my whole heritage was wiped out by a guy with a funny mustache and an enjoyable tendency of stretching his right arm when passing through crowds.

Nice personal attack, but you should try again next time.

So you presume that every civilian that died in wars was a human-shield???

I never stated such thing.

Just noted the fact that in many cases where a strategic strike is made, civilians die because the people who are targeted hide among children and women, or average civilians. It's a way of demoralizing the opposing force (in this case, NATO). There are always suckers like you who fall for it and start pointing the finger at NATO instead of actually looking into the whole situation.

And you are a teacher???

Yes, and a good one if my modesty allows me to add.

I knew you would come up with something like this.

Well, I know history and you can see the future. What a pair, eh?

Why would I need a book?

The fact that you need to raise that question, answers itself.

I could give you examples of times in History where books were seen as an enemy, insignificant or outright sin. But you would either become too offended, or you wouldn't even understand it.

I have been in two wars, I saw first hand what wars do to people.

Congratulations.

It's rather you that spewing demagogy, reading from the books and think you know it all. You don't know #.

Well, you got me there. I don't have first hand experience to go by. Mostly because my whole family was dead, I was the only one left along with my mother, and she ended up passing away anyway soon after my birth, because of health problems she gained while trying to save me, hiding in sewage while I was still in her belly. You know... Healthy stuff for a pregnant women to go by.

So yeah, books was all I had to hold on to while growing up.

You're showing lack of empathy, your caracter is close to being psychopathic.
And I'm sure I don't want to have any further conversation with you.

It's called "monotone conversation". It's a technique of speech that - as an example - 911 dispatchers use to talk to victims. Since they are already in an agitated state of mind, yelling "OH MY GOD ARE YOU OKAY?" won't help coming from the person supposed to help.

So I use it with people like you. People who are so full of hate, bias and rage that the only way to defuse your aggression is by not showing anything.

Now, you aren't continuing the conversation because you are upset by what I said. You are simply putting your tail between your legs and whining away because you just been owned, in both knowledge, education and manners.

Have a nice day.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
Here is an interesting video that I haven't seen posted...

Now I can't say how legit this info is, but at the 6:52 mark there is what claims to be a LT.Col of the Russian Army.

If this is true there will be no way of saying the Russian Army isn't in Ukraine.

You what ?????????

So apart from you who is claiming this is a "LT.Col of the Russian Army." because he was inside the building with the police, loyal to the Ukraine government until enough protesters made them change their minds and he got a kicking because he throw someone off the roof who tried to replace the flag.

I suggest people make the effort to see this video themselves