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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 03:41 PM
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Beatings, arson target pro-Kiev reporters in Ukraine's rebel east


TOREZ (Ukraine) (AFP) - The newspaper's edition was set, ready to print, when the assailants came at 2 o'clock in the morning, Molotov cocktails in hand.

"We heard someone beating violently against our windows. They ripped off the shutters and broke the glass. Then they took two 1.5 litre (half gallon) bottles, filled with petrol, and they burnt the place."

That, the daily's director Igor Abyzov tells AFP, was the attack suffered in the early hours of last Thursday by his publication Pro Gorod, the only newspaper in east Ukraine that is opposed to the pro-Russian separatist surge that has erupted in the region.

"We managed to put out the fire, otherwise everything would have gone up in smoke. The firemen -- who are stationed just two minutes away -- took 20 minutes to respond to our call, when it was all over. There's extensive damage," he said.

The crime is just one of many besetting Ukrainian journalists writing for Pro Gorad, located in the town of Toraz, population 70,000. They also risk beatings by club-wielding militants.

Abyzov, who stands using a crutch after two thugs beat him up and broke one of his legs, said that "we are for the unity of Ukraine and against separatism".

He added that several of the paper's journalists had also been assaulted. "They have tried to break our equipment, stole a stack of one of our editions."

"It's a little frightening to work under these conditions," admitted Anton Grabovski, one of the paper's journalists.

Inside Pro Gorod's newsroom, Grabovski, 26, who has a small Ukrainian flag next to his computer, said he wanted to stay to work in Torez, but was now having second thoughts because of the hostility.

"My girlfriend doesn't want anything to do with Russia. If we become part of Russia here, she wants to leave to live in Lviv, in western Ukraine. I'm starting to agree with her."

Grabovski said sentiment was divided in the region, even if the pro-Kremlin activists were the most vocal.

"Some of my friends are looking towards Russia," he admitted. "And others towards Europe. I have more to do with those looking West because myself, I want Ukraine to stay as one.

"Those who are looking to Russia, I find their ideas strange. I don't understand them very well."


click link for remainder of article..




posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 03:45 PM
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Over 20 Russia journalists have been denied access to Ukraine in recent weeks on the grounds that they do not have sufficient funds to enter, according to Ukrainian authorities. The move has caused outrage from both the CPJ and Moscow.


Link rt.com...


a reply to: dragonridr


True Kiev even released some captured documents from Russian provocateurs


Yeah we get these at every single protest in the world, the same old

Do i detect in you that you are upset that Germany and Russia have become such close friends over the past 20 years and feel a little pushed out ?

Russia said at one stage that they caught 24 people inside Russia that were from the Ukraine trying to stir up trouble and then they shut up so yes we are getting propaganda from both sides but lets no go down the road of claiming a few outsiders can make the local population stand up to tanks and guns with nothing more than a few sticks between them.

Did you mention little green men being dropped in by air from Russia or was that someone else




edit on 19-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 03:54 PM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: dragonridr


True Kiev even released some captured documents from Russian provocateurs


Yeah we get these at every single protest in the world, the same old

Do i detect in you that you are upset that Germany and Russia have become such close friends over the past 20 years and feel a little pushed out ?

Russia said at one stage that they caught 24 people inside Russia that were from the Ukraine trying to stir up trouble and then they shut up so yes we are getting propaganda from both sides but lets no go down the road of claiming a few outsiders can make the local population stand up to tanks and guns with nothing more than a few sticks between them.

Did you mention little green men being dropped in by air from Russia or was that someone else



You make absolutely no sense what has germany to do with what we were talking about?? As far as making the people do what you want its called propaganda and promises. Yes you can make a population stand up against there government done all the time dont know where you have been.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 04:07 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
You make absolutely no sense what has germany to do with what we were talking about??.


Well you said



The international community is turning Russia into an outcast they think the world needs them i think they're going to find out otherwise.


Russia's best friend and major trading partner in Europe is Germany and none of the BRICKS are going to fall out with Russia so it made sense to me else I would not had asked the question.

I think you might have under estimated this relationship with Germany and also the UK who sold power stations to Russia and the business community has yet to speak over this crisis so don't be shocked when they do
edit on 19-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard

originally posted by: dragonridr
You make absolutely no sense what has germany to do with what we were talking about??.


Well you said



The international community is turning Russia into an outcast they think the world needs them i think they're going to find out otherwise.


Russia's best friend and major trading partner in Europe is Germany and none of the BRICKS are going to fall out with Russia so it made sense to me else I would not had asked the question.

I think you might have under estimated this relationship with Germany and also the UK who sold power stations to Russia and the business community has yet to speak over this crisis so don't be shocked when they do


You do realize Germany is leading the charge against Russia Angela Merkel is the one in charge of the show in europe. Shes the one that convinced Ukraine to sign the treaty with the EU shes the one saying Putin went off the deep end. The UK isnt concerned with Russia as much as you like to think And the French are down right mad unusual but there pushing Nato to respond. So i dont know where you get your information but the EU is doing everything they can right now short of sending troops. And it may come to that since they signed the agreement with Ukraine recently. I hope it doesnt because that will drag the US into something which has no value to us. But if the EU starts using force Obama will send troops see hes a follower not a leader.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

You are right about the International community, but I think you are misreading the part of the World not depending on Russia's business or influence.

As an example, you have the order of helicopter carriers from Russia to France. France started looking all buff and tough about cancelling that order, which would be a sign of severe ties disrupting, but then France backtracked on that statement.

Right now, France is saying that they will be selling the ships anyway, but they are not putting any weapon systems on the carriers, which means they are considered civilian ships.

Between us, I think that's a very lame attempt at keeping a deal between, basically bypassing the sanctions directed at Russia. Who on this Earth is going to believe that a carrier is for civilian purposes? It's like that aircraft carrier sold to China, that was supposed to be a floating casino but ended up being a study-ship for China's own aircraft carriers.

This is a clear sign that Russia isn't as isolated, nor as insignificant as the MSM is trying to portray it to be. They will be, if a "third stage of sanctions" is activated, and that includes exclusion of these - industrial - deals with other countries. But since Russia is already saying that further sanctions are unacceptable, we'll just have to wait and see.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

Nice theory but the USA is leading the charge against Russia from what I see on the TV and you forget about the treaty Russia has with the Ukraine elected government and not the thugs that took power by force.

Angela Merkel has not said too much, her and Putin are/were very close

Now France it's been looking for a war for the bast few years now but i cannot workout why and since when did the USA ever need dragging into a war, hell they have not left Europe since the last war.

Obama will do what ever his banker controllers tell him to do, no brains to do anything himself but as I say the business leaders in Europe have not spoken so don't be shocked.

Anything that pushes oil prices up has got to be a good to these banker types and if the government can geode the public into paying even more taxes for "Protection" then they will

Follow the money and you will be right on target.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: GarrusVasNormandy

French DM: Cancellation of Carrier Sale to Russia an 'Extreme Measure'


PARIS — France views its two advanced helicopter carriers sold to Russia as unarmed civilian ships, and it is too early to say whether the €1.2 billion deal (US $1.7 billion) would be canceled in view of the Ukraine crisis, Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Wednesday.

“We will deliver civilian hulls,” Le Drian said at an aeronautics and defense conference organized by business daily Les Echos. “It’s a reality. The client can then arm the two ships. We will deliver, under the signed contract, a package which is not armed.”

A cancellation of a contract for two command-and-projection ships of the Mistral class would be “an extreme measure,” one which would only appear on a third set of sanctions against Moscow, Le Drian said.

“The heads of government and state will decide three sets of measures,” he said. “If there are industrial measures, it will be in the third set.

“We are at the first set. If there are industrial measures, it will be in the third set. The second set is military,” Le Drian said.



The 3rd round is what the French UN Ambassador stated during council meetings on Ukraine. The 3rd set will target sectors of the Russian economy instead of just individuals. The ship deal, which France views as a civilian vessel purchase instead of military, will cancel if the 3rd round is put into place. The 3rd round is contingent upon action on the ground in Ukraine (East / South) with Russia responsible for trying to get some of those groups under control.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 06:08 PM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: dragonridr

Nice theory but the USA is leading the charge against Russia from what I see on the TV and you forget about the treaty Russia has with the Ukraine elected government and not the thugs that took power by force.

Angela Merkel has not said too much, her and Putin are/were very close

Now France it's been looking for a war for the bast few years now but i cannot workout why and since when did the USA ever need dragging into a war, hell they have not left Europe since the last war.

Obama will do what ever his banker controllers tell him to do, no brains to do anything himself but as I say the business leaders in Europe have not spoken so don't be shocked.

Anything that pushes oil prices up has got to be a good to these banker types and if the government can geode the public into paying even more taxes for "Protection" then they will

Follow the money and you will be right on target.


SNIP Let me ask you a question how many positions in the government changed after Maiden? Simple answer one the president was kicked out all other elected officials are in office. See in the US we almost did the same thing when were going to impeach Nixon this wouldnt have meant the government was illegal sorry but logic fail. Just like when Russia finally kicks Putin out of office it doesnt make the Russian govt illegal. As far as this conflict great for NATO Russia made them relevant again Europe was getting comfortable cutting back on military and focussing on economy. Well thats going to change now Putin accomplished exactly opposite of what he wanted.

And as far as Ukraine goes its of no interest to the US at all contrary to what Russia says. Militarily its useless since its would immediately be obliterated in a hot war. To close for defense missile systems Poland has always been where they wanted Nato bases. Until now though they followed Russia's objections guarantee that stopped you see it when Nato is currently putting boots on the ground in poland. Nato was not willing to do that because Russia got upset so once again Putin got exactly opposite of what he wanted.Thats why within two years the Russians will be running him out of town bet on it.
edit on 4/19/2014 by Blaine91555 because: Bad comment snipped.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 06:16 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Well is the deal canceled or not

"and it is too early to say whether the €1.2 billion deal (US $1.7 billion) would be canceled"

“We will deliver civilian hulls,” Le Drian said at an aeronautics and defense conference organized by business daily"

Come now we cannot sell anything to Russia if we are going to war with them can we now or is it as I say all bluff to push up oil prices.

Russia in return is working to replace Visa and Master Card so I count that as France needs to sack some workers if they can decide what they are going to do and Russia is creating a few banking jobs in Russia after the attempted blackmail by the banksters.

$1.7 billion does not sound like much to me given that the USA spends twice that much each day on it's military budget and by that scale the USA must have a machine guns against Russia's stick and stones so why not go and swat the little fly or could it be that the USA with all it's spending of tax cents has little more than sticks and stones to fight with itself.

I don't know but I do know that something does not add up.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 06:50 PM
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a reply to: VirusGuard

The deal is still on track however It will be canceled if the 3rd round of sanctions goes forward. I am going to assume the 3rd round, targeting sectors instead of individuals, will include items with a dual civilian / military purpose.

The fact Russia wanted them, coupled with the fact France sold them, raised eyebrows on both sides. France won out over Russia's defense industry developing their own.

I want to say they (west / EU / US) will review the situation in the next week and determine if the 3rd round goes thru or not. The decision to cancel I don't think is the companies choice. I think it will be required by the government if sanctions go.

As for oil - I doubt it. Although the price of oil directly impacts Russia since it accounts for 24% of the GDP. With China remaining neutral and Iran actively shopping around to sell oil in place of Russia complicates things.

Resources is the other reason E / S Ukraine is important. Apparently their is a lot of untapped resources there (specifically coal).


As for the credit card situation to each their own. While on paper it looks good for Russia, the one issue no one has asked is who will accept it outside of Russia? There is a lot of outflow of capital from Russia because of the sanctions, with one area being banks. There is concern by a lot of non Russian businesses that if they perform business with Russia that they could be in violation of sanctions and be the subject of government action (businesses that are located in cooperating sanction nations).
edit on 19-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr



As far as this conflict great for NATO Russia made them relevant again Europe was getting comfortable cutting back on military and focussing on economy. Well thats going to change now Putin accomplished exactly opposite of what he wanted.


Yes, Yes Yes but try as i do you don't seem to be getting it.

This is about upping military budgets and making the public agree as well as pushing oil prices up on the forecourts.

Putin/Russia , Iran also want higher oil prices and this little staged conflict has given it to them on a plate.

The Ukraine would sell it's sole for a mere $20bn given the chance to any side, it's desperate but the spin off from this phony war might number in the trillions, yes you almost said it yourself and the only part we don't agree on is was it planed in advance.

it does not smell like war with Shell, Bp, Exon oil still drilling for gas in Russia or the French not deciding if they will build ships for Russia or not and the British not seizing the power stations back that Putin brought before Russia takes them off grid permanently.

it's phony, fake and for public consumption just like the Iranian crisis we had a year ago.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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English EuroMaidan ‏@EuroMaidanEN · 46m
Russian military are bragging in the social networks to have received medals "for the liberation of Crimea." Note... fb.me...




MaidanOnline ‏@MaidanOnline · 49m
Dmitry Tymchuk: April 19 Update from Sloviansk wp.me... fb.me...




Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 1h
#Ukraine: what disarming?#Sloviansk Pro-#Russians setup AT missiles. youtu.be... pic.twitter.com/39OK471Y0d @Thoreau_H_D & @ISNJH

edit on 19-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 1h
#Russia's military hardware catalog and what they have been and will be using to invade #Ukraine www.roe.ru... @RealCrimea | EMPR

edit on 19-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 07:01 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: VirusGuard

The deal is still on track however It will be canceled if the 3rd round of sanctions goes forward. I am going to assume the 3rd round, targeting sectors instead of individuals, will include items with a dual civilian / military purpose.

The fact Russia wanted them, coupled with the fact France sold them, raised eyebrows on both sides. France won out over Russia's defense industry developing their own.

I want to say they (west / EU / US) will review the situation in the next week and determine if the 3rd round goes thru or not. The decision to cancel I don't think is the companies choice. I think it will be required by the government if sanctions go.

As for oil - I doubt it. Although the price of oil directly impacts Russia since it accounts for 24% of the GDP. With China remaining neutral and Iran actively shopping around to sell oil in place of Russia complicates things.

Resources is the other reason E / S Ukraine is important. Apparently their is a lot of untapped resources there (specifically coal).


As for the credit card situation to each their own. While on paper it looks good for Russia, the one issue no one has asked is who will accept it outside of Russia? There is a lot of outflow of capital from Russia because of the sanctions, with one area being banks. There is concern by a lot of non Russian businesses that if they perform business with Russia that they could be in violation of sanctions and be the subject of government action (businesses that are located in cooperating sanction nations).


Your right this isnt about oil but it is about resources the EU needs to expand their resources to remain competitive. What better way than get a country with gas and coal reserves to join. Now heres the paranoid part the EU knew Russia would have a problem with this Russia didnt keep it a secret. So at that point i have to ask myself why the EU pushed so hard to get Ukraine to join them?? I keep feeling theres something im missing here just cant figure out what i was thinking that the EU wanted to crash the Russian economy but then why??



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 07:04 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

I don't think they pushed any harder than Russia did. The resources Ukraine has are resources found in other nations. Now, if they had precious rare elements like China then I could be persuaded to that side of the argument. From everything I have seen resources were not a part of any agreement.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 07:05 PM
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China neutral ? India neutral ??

These two countries have major major appetite for oil. Only one phone call from Putin and both of these countries will drop their suppliers and turn to Russian oil.

Both of these countries do not abide by 'unilateral' sanctions. They have told US to 'go to hell' many times before on such issues.

Go and beg your 'sanctions agenda' on some small third world nation or European poodles who do not appreciate the ultra aggressive approach of US on global matters.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 07:09 PM
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Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 3h
BREAKING W.official confirms #US to conduct military exercises in Poland&Estonia,150troops each,to be rotated in & out #Ukraine @jimsciutto


Finally got some preliminary numbers on troops going to E. Europe.



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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a reply to: victor7

What I wouldn't give for you to actually understand politics before going off on an ill informed rant.

If you look at the UN, specifically dealing with Ukraine, you will see China remained neutral - including in the votes. Russia wanted them to side with them and China declined, opting to remain "NEUTRAL".

What are the chances of you thinking / understand the situation before replying?



posted on Apr, 19 2014 @ 07:18 PM
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How to SAve Ukraine - Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Russia

An interesting viewpoint. He compared to what's going on in Ukraine with the of the 1930's civil war in Spain.



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