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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:00 AM
link   

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: dragonridr
This Ukraine conflict can be over as soon as they have the presidential elections.Because than even eastern Ukraine has a say in the government.


I honestly believe Russia wont allow those elections to take place.. At least not in the East or South of Ukraine.


why should they ??


Because Ukraine is a sovereign nation. If Russia wants to go down that road would you support international assistance and a covert invasion of Chechnya?




posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:10 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: dragonridr
This Ukraine conflict can be over as soon as they have the presidential elections.Because than even eastern Ukraine has a say in the government.


I honestly believe Russia wont allow those elections to take place.. At least not in the East or South of Ukraine.


why should they ??


Because Ukraine is a sovereign nation. If Russia wants to go down that road would you support international assistance and a covert invasion of Chechnya?


In that case, if you want to go to Chechnya with your 'covert thingies' then..........although US is a sovereign nation but might not fare well with the smuggling in of AQ terrorists with "really serious" candies to unpack for distribution.

Who gives the US the sole right to create problems in other countries while sitting pretty at its homesoil. That fraudulent right is totally denied when dealing with regional powers like Russia and China. Quit poking your dirty nose around the globe.



edit on 20-4-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:10 AM
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RT ‏@RT_com · 40m
DETAILS: Fatalities came after night attack on protester checkpoint on outskirts of #Slavyansk, E. #Ukraine on.rt.com...



Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak · 35m
#Russia state TV reports five people killed in gunfight near east #Ukraine town of #Slaviansk which is controlled by pro-Moscow separatists



Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 6m
Newly appointed president's advisor Yury Lutsenko is heading to #Donetsk region. Will coordinate law enforcers actions. ostro |EMPR #Ukraine



RT ‏@RT_com · 45m
BREAKING: Five reportedly killed in E. #Ukraine shooting on.rt.com...



Al Arabiya English ‏@AlArabiya_Eng · 1h
#Putin: nothing should impede #Russia-#West ties ara.tv...




Sky News ‏@SkyNews · 1h
Ukraine PM: 'Putin Has Soviet Union Dream' news.sky.com...



Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 2h
A Banner-message to #Putin in #Odesa, southern #Ukraine: "Vova (short from Vladimir) stop playing on Mamma's nerves!" pic.twitter.com/tpUudBuw5k




KyivPost ‏@KyivPost · 3h
Reuters: Mediator heads to east #Ukraine, seeking surrenders www.kyivpost.com... … pic.twitter.com/VAGWqegvAt



This one could get interesting if true -

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 3h
#USA ready to target #Russian president’s hidden $40bn stash www.thetimes.co.uk... … |EMPR News #Putin




European Union EU ‏@European_Union · 5h
European Union official against cutting off Russia gas ties - MYfoxLUBBOCK.COM... : European Unio... http://(link tracking not allowed)/1tmYYwH #EU #Europe



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: dragonridr
This Ukraine conflict can be over as soon as they have the presidential elections.Because than even eastern Ukraine has a say in the government.


I honestly believe Russia wont allow those elections to take place.. At least not in the East or South of Ukraine.


why should they ??


Because Ukraine is a sovereign nation. If Russia wants to go down that road would you support international assistance and a covert invasion of Chechnya?


I cannot see how elections in Ukraine can be organised and done in a month considering what is going on in Ukraine.
And I expect things to go for worse after this Easter break.
Current situation is not stable and elections should be postponed until we see some results of de-escalation.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:15 AM
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originally posted by: victor7
In that case, if you want to go to Chechnya with your 'covert thingies' then..........although US is a sovereign nation but might not fare well with the smuggling in of AQ terrorists with "really serious" candies to unpack for distribution.

Again you miss the point.





originally posted by: victor7
Who gives the US the sole right to create problems in other countries while sitting pretty at its homesoil. That right is totally denied when dealing with regional powers like Russia and China. Quit poking your dirty nose around the globe.


Who gave Russia the right to invade Ukraine?

Secondly you are correct, the US is a sovereign nation. That means we can stick our nose in where we want, no matter how pissed you or Putin get about. I find your position ridiculous in that its only targeted at the US. You and some others come across as demanding the US leave certain areas alone solely so Russia can do what it wants without some objecting to the action.

Russia is the one who invaded Ukraine.
Russia is the one who stated the green men on the ground in Crimea were in fact there's.
Russian GRU/Spetnaz have been caught in South / East Ukraine.

Russia would be the one over stepping its bounds by invading a sovereign nation and annexing its territory simply because Putin's vanity cant handle reality.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: dragonridr
This Ukraine conflict can be over as soon as they have the presidential elections.Because than even eastern Ukraine has a say in the government.


I honestly believe Russia wont allow those elections to take place.. At least not in the East or South of Ukraine.


why should they ??


Because Ukraine is a sovereign nation. If Russia wants to go down that road would you support international assistance and a covert invasion of Chechnya?


Have you seen by any chance what Grozny looks like these days?
You would never thought that this city was completely destroyed in the war some years ago.
Have a look at this clip

www.youtube.com...

Absolutely amazing.

And now imagine what it would look like if islamic fundamentalism took over. It would be like Afghanistan and there would probably still be wars and conflicts.

They are now loyal citizens of Russian Federation and why they should not be? Peace and prosperity.

Kadirov, the president of Chechnya visiting Special forces at training

www.youtube.com...
edit on 20-4-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:22 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Remember one thing that in this war with AQ and fanatic Islam, Russia was very cooperative with the US. If Russia is pushed to a situation where it decides to not only break cooperation but instead help the other side............it will become a painful tumor in the brain of the US.

You are correct..........US can stick its nose where it wants.......or most of the places where it want......but not in Russia or China's near abroad. In these places US nose will get bloody and might even be chopped off with face deformed for decades to come.

Just today Putin's Kremlin chief of staff said "one more step by NATO towards Russia's borders" will result in whole equation of European security being overhauled. Take some wisdom in this warning.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:23 AM
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originally posted by: cosmonova


I cannot see how elections in Ukraine can be organised and done in a month considering what is going on in Ukraine.


It was good enough for Crimea - 2 weeks. If Ukraine cant get it together in a month then how can one defend the fraud elections in Crimea? As for what's going on in Ukraine, its been stated time and again in this and other threads that Russia is going to do everything it can in order to justify an invasion of East and South Ukraine / disrupt the May elections, which again Russia stated it wont recognize.

If the armed Pro Russians who have taken control are not under the command of Russia, then there is no reason Ukraine cant use force to repel a hostile invasion. If the protesters are Russian, then Ukraine should be able to use force to repel an invasion.

Its telling that Russia makes claims they are not under Russian command yet warns Ukraine they cant use force to stop them.

I wonder why...



originally posted by: victor7
And I expect things to go for worse after this Easter break.
Current situation is not stable and elections should be postponed until we see some results of de-escalation.

Yeah there were some twitter posts showing Russian military aircraft landing in what I am assuming Crimea with military personnel and supplies. no one has been able to determine if they are reinforcements or just routine cycling in and out.

Not to soon after a twitter post from Ukraine notified the East / South region of Ukraine there would be Ukraine air assets in the sky for airspace control.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:29 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: cosmonova


I cannot see how elections in Ukraine can be organised and done in a month considering what is going on in Ukraine.


It was good enough for Crimea - 2 weeks. If Ukraine cant get it together in a month then how can one defend the fraud elections in Crimea? As for what's going on in Ukraine, its been stated time and again in this and other threads that Russia is going to do everything it can in order to justify an invasion of East and South Ukraine / disrupt the May elections, which again Russia stated it wont recognize.

If the armed Pro Russians who have taken control are not under the command of Russia, then there is no reason Ukraine cant use force to repel a hostile invasion. If the protesters are Russian, then Ukraine should be able to use force to repel an invasion.

Its telling that Russia makes claims they are not under Russian command yet warns Ukraine they cant use force to stop them.

I wonder why...



originally posted by: victor7
And I expect things to go for worse after this Easter break.
Current situation is not stable and elections should be postponed until we see some results of de-escalation.

Yeah there were some twitter posts showing Russian military aircraft landing in what I am assuming Crimea with military personnel and supplies. no one has been able to determine if they are reinforcements or just routine cycling in and out.

Not to soon after a twitter post from Ukraine notified the East / South region of Ukraine there would be Ukraine air assets in the sky for airspace control.


There was no conflict in Crimea, and how can you compare Crimea with Ukraine? Size wise and population wise, there is simply not a right time to organize the elections until situation de-escalate.
In regards to Russian involvement, comments in this thread are all based on guessing and one sided opinions, therefore biased.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:30 AM
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a reply to: cosmonova

My point is Chechnya represents the very argument Putin is using to justify actions in Ukraine. Those actions, and the double standard it creates, demonstrates Putin's mindset towards "non-ethnic Russians".

For Putin to justify 2 wars in Chechnya, whose demographics puts Crimea's to shame when it comes to citizens (95% Chechen and about 2% Russian), while trying to justify his position in Ukraine using the very argument he denied to Chechnya is a problem.

It does not matter what the region looks like now or 10 years from now. He invaded a region who is not ethnically Russian and who have a separate identity.

Crimea / South / East Ukraine = ethnic Russians = justification to "liberate"
Chechnya = ethnic Chechens = bad = invasion and occupation.

Its the principle.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:36 AM
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It does not matter what the region looks like now or 10 years from now.
a reply to: Xcathdra

It does matter weather a region plays a idiotic poodle of US or a responsible region in Russia.

In one case the region becomes the "MOST DESTROYED" city on earth and in other case, a thriving regional economy.

Simple case of picking a sweet fruit or a toxic poison.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:39 AM
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a great take on Maidan events from Dmitry Puchkov, Russian author and script-writer.
Reality check for Ukrainians.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:40 AM
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originally posted by: victor7


You are correct..........US can stick its nose where it wants.......or most of the places where it want......but not in Russia or China's near abroad. In these places US nose will get bloody and might even be chopped off with face deformed for decades to come.

Just today Putin's Kremlin chief of staff said "one more step by NATO towards Russia's borders" will result in whole equation of European security being overhauled. Take some wisdom in this warning.


Russia or Chinas near abroad? Do you understand how ridiculous that mindset is? Russia / China have no more business telling their neighbors how to run their affairs than the west does. The nations around Russia are not Russian and they are not western. To force a foreign policy position on a neighboring country because they share a border is in fact the problem.

If Ukraine wants to join NATO that is their right as a sovereign nation. If they choose not to Join NATO, that is their right as a sovereign nation. Ukraine met the basic requirements to join NATO back in 2010 and opted not to. I didn't see NATO invade Ukraine because of it.

As a follow up to the near abroad - should that doctrine allow the US to prevent Russia / China for sending military to Cuba? Venezuela? Those actions by Russia / China could be seen as a violation of the Monroe doctrine.

If Cuba and Venezuela are sovereign nations with the ability to pick and choose who their allies are, then the same applies to Ukraine.

As for what NATO does - this is another part of Putin's hypocrisy. Members of NATO are sovereign nations who freely joined. Russia has stated many times with the Ukraine invasion that military deployments inside Russia are no ones concern.

The same holds true to Russia when dealing with NATO deployments. If you look you will see the NATO nations that border Russia do not have "NATO" bases. Why? Because of Russia's paranoia about NATO.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:43 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: cosmonova

My point is Chechnya represents the very argument Putin is using to justify actions in Ukraine. Those actions, and the double standard it creates, demonstrates Putin's mindset towards "non-ethnic Russians".

For Putin to justify 2 wars in Chechnya, whose demographics puts Crimea's to shame when it comes to citizens (95% Chechen and about 2% Russian), while trying to justify his position in Ukraine using the very argument he denied to Chechnya is a problem.

It does not matter what the region looks like now or 10 years from now. He invaded a region who is not ethnically Russian and who have a separate identity.

Crimea / South / East Ukraine = ethnic Russians = justification to "liberate"
Chechnya = ethnic Chechens = bad = invasion and occupation.

Its the principle.



Of course it maters what it looks like 10 years after. It is peaceful and prosperous place.
If left in hand of Islamic fundamentalist, Russia would always have trouble in that region and surrounding area.
Lets not forget, US came to the other end of the world, in Afghanistan to sort out the same kind of people in order to
prevent another 11/09. And we are talking here of the region at doorstep of Russia.
Lets not be hypocritical please.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:45 AM
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originally posted by: cosmonova
There was no conflict in Crimea, and how can you compare Crimea with Ukraine? Size wise and population wise, there is simply not a right time to organize the elections until situation de-escalate.
In regards to Russian involvement, comments in this thread are all based on guessing and one sided opinions, therefore biased.


Putin apparently disagrees with you -
Putin’s remarks raise fears of future moves against Ukraine


MOSCOW — A confident President Vladimir Putin on Thursday used his annual televised meeting with the nation to portray a powerful Russia — one that is dismissive of the West, had troops operating in Crimea even as it denied it and regards a large swath of southeastern Ukraine as historically part of its territory.

Somewhat ominously, Putin reminded his audience that Russia’s parliament has given him the authority to send troops into Ukraine. Southeastern Ukraine — including the cities of Luhansk, Kharkiv, Donetsk and Odessa — had been part of the Russian empire, called New Russia, he pointed out. The Soviet Union turned it over to Ukraine. “Why? Let God judge them.” The argument was reminiscent of the one he had made earlier about Crimea, which was given to Ukraine in 1954.



“Nonsense,” Putin said Thursday. “There are no Russian units in eastern Ukraine — no special services, no tactical advisers. All this is being done by the local residents.”

In early March, Putin denied that the well-equipped troops operating on Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula and wearing green uniforms without insignia were Russian. Anyone could buy those uniforms, he said. On Thursday, when asked about the soldiers widely known as the green men, Putin acknowledged that they were Russian. Their presence had been necessary, he said, to keep order so that Crimeans could decide their future in a referendum.

“We didn’t want any tanks, any nationalist combat units or people with extreme views armed with automatic weapons,” he said. “Of course, Russian servicemen backed the Crimean self-defense forces.”


Putin also lied about the 40k troops on the border of Ukraine, which does not account for forces in Crimea.

You have Russian military entering Crimea and seizing it. This occurred before any vote of independence by Crimea. It also reinforces the fact as to why the elections were illegal and not recognized.
edit on 20-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:47 AM
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originally posted by: victor7



It does not matter what the region looks like now or 10 years from now.
a reply to: Xcathdra

It does matter weather a region plays a idiotic poodle of US or a responsible region in Russia.

In one case the region becomes the "MOST DESTROYED" city on earth and in other case, a thriving regional economy.

Simple case of picking a sweet fruit or a toxic poison.


The reverse applies.

Or is this another one of the those if a nation doesn't like Russia they must be corrupt and out to destroy Russia?

Time and again you and others have talked about how Russian can stomp Ukraine. If that's the case, there was no reason to invade as Ukraine would not pose a threat to Russia. Just as Turkey, Poland and the Baltic states were not a threat to Russia.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:54 AM
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originally posted by: cosmonova

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: victor7

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: dragonridr
This Ukraine conflict can be over as soon as they have the presidential elections.Because than even eastern Ukraine has a say in the government.


I honestly believe Russia wont allow those elections to take place.. At least not in the East or South of Ukraine.


why should they ??




Because Ukraine is a sovereign nation. If Russia wants to go down that road would you support international assistance and a covert invasion of Chechnya?


I cannot see how elections in Ukraine can be organised and done in a month considering what is going on in Ukraine.
And I expect things to go for worse after this Easter break.
Current situation is not stable and elections should be postponed until we see some results of de-escalation.


No need actually the UN is handling a lot of the election stuff theyll set up and observe,The un is pretty good at it by now theyve done it in a lot of countries. Im just curious which countries will volunteer for observers i figure Russia europe and the US is out so i was wondering who ends up with the job.



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 01:57 AM
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Right Sector nazis attacked Slovynsk, 3 people dead.
Hard to pick up what happened as captions are not working well.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 02:01 AM
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KyivPost ‏@KyivPost · 12m
#Ukraine begins implementing #Geneva accords, halts anti-terrorist operation www.kyivpost.com... … pic.twitter.com/RQkqAiS2B7



posted on Apr, 20 2014 @ 02:06 AM
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And now lets see how the sanctions work,

'Royal Dutch Shell’s new CEO Ben Van Beurden met with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday, signaling Ukraine tension has not affected investment in Russia, and that energy contracts won't be derailed by international politics.

Chief executive Van Beurden met with the president at his residence outside of Moscow and reaffirmed the company’s commitment to develop Russia’s only liquefied natural gas (LNG) plant with Gazprom.

"We also know that this is going to be a project that will need strong support to succeed. So one of my purposes of meeting with you, Mr. President, is to also secure support for the way forward on this project," Van Beurden said.

“Now is the time to expand this lucrative project, we will need strong support to make it a success,” the oil chief said.

Putin said he was happy that Shell is continuing its work in Russia.'

rt.com...


'Europe has no plans to move away from Russian gas, with major energy projects like South Stream expected to remain in place, according to Reiner Hartmann, Chairman of the Association of European Businesses.'

rt.com...



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