Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

Just read a news article from Reuters that Gazprom has increased it’s gas prices to Ukrain today by 43%. That means that the re-started ‘cold war’ is getting colder and colder. Wonder what the responses going to be on that one.

reply to post by dragonridr


so basically you are trying to say that one of the characteristics of central government is to protect its territory?
what about federations, they don't defend their territory?

are you even aware how many countries in the world are federations?

Federation in the "Russian Federation" doesn't mean Russia is the best, nice place to live, more democratic than USA, growing economy, freedom of speech, no.

It only means that Russia is federation, I don't know why you're trying to dispute that, people may get wrong impression about you?

and for your information, federations also have Central Government.

so, there you go, I know you will find your way out of this somehow but you should think more.

(don't even want to start about civilians killed and something like that; when it comes to that USA is the last to say anything.)

reply to post by asen_y2k


If this is true Especially on this particular day ...

The Ukraine had better roll over to save lives because Russia will steamroll the country.

Neo - nazis that didn't even exist in the first place are being targeted.

orders from EU, USA; definitely.

Ukraine orders disarming of armed groups after shooting in Kiev

Ukraine's parliament on Tuesday ordered security forces to disarm illegal armed groups as police shut down the Kiev base of a far-right nationalist group prominent in the overthrow of Viktor Yanukovych after a shooting incident in which three people were wounded.

demus
Neo - nazis that didn't even exist in the first place are being targeted.

orders from EU, USA; definitely.

Ukraine orders disarming of armed groups after shooting in Kiev

Ukraine's parliament on Tuesday ordered security forces to disarm illegal armed groups as police shut down the Kiev base of a far-right nationalist group prominent in the overthrow of Viktor Yanukovych after a shooting incident in which three people were wounded.

No-one denied that there were neo-Nazi groups on Maidan. Now it beginning to appear that the rumors that they were being paid to riot are true. They were being paid by Russia, hence the crackdown.

reply to post by DJW001

No-one denied that there were neo-Nazi groups on Maidan. Now it beginning to appear that the rumors that they were being paid to riot are true. They were being paid by Russia, hence the crackdown.

Right.....so the Russians hired these goons to overthrow their own puppet government and install a pro-western one......makes perfect sense...

Flatcoat
reply to post by DJW001

 

No-one denied that there were neo-Nazi groups on Maidan. Now it beginning to appear that the rumors that they were being paid to riot are true. They were being paid by Russia, hence the crackdown.

Right.....so the Russians hired these goons to overthrow their own puppet government and install a pro-western one......makes perfect sense...

No, they hired them to subvert the legitimate protests against their puppet government and provide a pretext to invade to "protect" the "ethnic Russian" population. Have you noticed how quickly the unmarked."self defense forces" formed , got equipped and deployed? The timing of the violence in Maidan escalated to.Putin's time table.

Edit to add: They were also tasked with maintaining disorder in order to discredit the interim government. That is why they are getting put down.

From Reuters and being reported on RT and Sky news....
"Nato suspends all practical, military and civilian cooperation with Russia"

Rainbows
Jane

DJW001

Flatcoat
reply to post by DJW001

 

No-one denied that there were neo-Nazi groups on Maidan. Now it beginning to appear that the rumors that they were being paid to riot are true. They were being paid by Russia, hence the crackdown.

Right.....so the Russians hired these goons to overthrow their own puppet government and install a pro-western one......makes perfect sense...

No, they hired them to subvert the legitimate protests against their puppet government and provide a pretext to invade to "protect" the "ethnic Russian" population. Have you noticed how quickly the unmarked."self defense forces" formed , got equipped and deployed? The timing of the violence in Maidan escalated to.Putin's time table.



Edit to add: They were also tasked with maintaining disorder in order to discredit the interim government. That is why they are getting put down.

edit on 1-4-2014 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

So let me get this straight...they hired these guys to instigate the violence, which led to the overthrow of the pro-russian government, installing a pro-western government, to give the russians an excuse to invade and install a pro-russian government.....wow!! That's some seriously Machiavellian politics right there...except for the fact that they haven't invaded Ukrainia, have they...and they were already in Crimea....so I' think I'll stick to Occam's razor for this one.

reply to post by Flatcoat


Any Russian military positions outside of their base would be considered an invasion by international legal standards.
The argument is that if other states can do it, then why not Russia..
And based on the lack of blood spilled,mass defections and vote Crimea practically unrolled the red carpet for the Russians, good yes bad yes.
Think what's really under attack is international Law, and the willingness to enforce it, and by whom, that if this can happen to one country it can be applied to all..

angelchemuel
From Reuters and being reported on RT and Sky news....
"Nato suspends all practical, military and civilian cooperation with Russia"

Rainbows
Jane

Was about to share this, you think there will be consequences to this?

Besides that, NATO is to reinforce the military in east europe

reply to post by all2human


While I do agree with you, my take on it is that Russia's actions may not be legal, but they're definitely understandable given the circumstances.

Flatcoat

DJW001

Flatcoat
reply to post by DJW001

 

No-one denied that there were neo-Nazi groups on Maidan. Now it beginning to appear that the rumors that they were being paid to riot are true. They were being paid by Russia, hence the crackdown.

Right.....so the Russians hired these goons to overthrow their own puppet government and install a pro-western one......makes perfect sense...

No, they hired them to subvert the legitimate protests against their puppet government and provide a pretext to invade to "protect" the "ethnic Russian" population. Have you noticed how quickly the unmarked."self defense forces" formed , got equipped and deployed? The timing of the violence in Maidan escalated to.Putin's time table.



Edit to add: They were also tasked with maintaining disorder in order to discredit the interim government. That is why they are getting put down.

edit on 1-4-2014 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

So let me get this straight...they hired these guys to instigate the violence, which led to the overthrow of the pro-russian government, installing a pro-western government, to give the russians an excuse to invade and install a pro-russian government.....wow!! That's some seriously Machiavellian politics right there...except for the fact that they haven't invaded Ukrainia, have they...and they were already in Crimea....so I' think I'll stick to Occam's razor for this one.

But the Ukrainian government was not 100% pro-Russian. In fact, the Parliament favored perusing ties with both Russia and the EU. Yanukovytch refused to sign the agreements with Europe that Parliament approved. This was one of the factors that led to the peaceful street protests. Since Yanukovytch was proving to be unable to govern the country properly, he became dispensible from the Russian point of view. It then became expedient for Russia to turn the protests violent, so that they could characterize the change in government as a violent coup, rather than another "Velvet Revolution." The thugs were then instructed to maintain the turmoil to keep the new government unstable. It was typical KGB tactics, and all too many people have swallowed the black propaganda.

reply to post by WhiteWine


The longer this drags on, the more China will distance itself from its Russian partner, more radical and not likely soon, i even foresee a war between these two nations.

DJW001

Flatcoat
reply to post by DJW001

 

No-one denied that there were neo-Nazi groups on Maidan. Now it beginning to appear that the rumors that they were being paid to riot are true. They were being paid by Russia, hence the crackdown.

Right.....so the Russians hired these goons to overthrow their own puppet government and install a pro-western one......makes perfect sense...

No, they hired them to subvert the legitimate protests against their puppet government and provide a pretext to invade to "protect" the "ethnic Russian" population. Have you noticed how quickly the unmarked."self defense forces" formed , got equipped and deployed? The timing of the violence in Maidan escalated to.Putin's time table.

Edit to add: They were also tasked with maintaining disorder in order to discredit the interim government. That is why they are getting put down.

edit on 1-4-2014 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)

Yeah its always bothered me how quickly Russia deployed troops. Look even during exercises it involved moving things by trains unloading at depots. It took them a couple of days just to start these exercises on the border but when it came to Crimea the troops popped out of no where. And thenext day 5000 more troops hit the ground. It definitely looks like it was preplanned.Which means your probably right Putin created the unrest and had the troops waiting. Makes sense use the political instability to take Crimea and possibly considered the rest of Ukraine. Im thinking he might have given up on that part but who knows.

dragonridr

Yeah its always bothered me how quickly Russia deployed troops. Look even during exercises it involved moving things by trains unloading at depots. It took them a couple of days just to start these exercises on the border but when it came to Crimea the troops popped out of no where. And thenext day 5000 more troops hit the ground. It definitely looks like it was preplanned.Which means your probably right Putin created the unrest and had the troops waiting. Makes sense use the political instability to take Crimea and possibly considered the rest of Ukraine. Im thinking he might have given up on that part but who knows.

I know, it's almost like they already had troops based in Crimea...oh...wait...

all2human
reply to post by WhiteWine

 

The longer this drags on, the more China will distance itself from its Russian partner, more radical and not likely soon, i even foresee a war between these two nations.

edit on 1-4-2014 by all2human because: (no reason given)

There will be no need for a war. China will simply watch and wait as Russia exhausts itself struggling to reconquer it's lost empire.

reply to post by DJW001


I would be very surprised to see Russia try to retake former soviet states after the backlash over Ukraine.
Besides The Russian occupation of Crimea is imo more to do with it's energy monopoly in Europe than a land grab.

khimbar

dragonridr

Yeah its always bothered me how quickly Russia deployed troops. Look even during exercises it involved moving things by trains unloading at depots. It took them a couple of days just to start these exercises on the border but when it came to Crimea the troops popped out of no where. And thenext day 5000 more troops hit the ground. It definitely looks like it was preplanned.Which means your probably right Putin created the unrest and had the troops waiting. Makes sense use the political instability to take Crimea and possibly considered the rest of Ukraine. Im thinking he might have given up on that part but who knows.

I know, it's almost like they already had troops based in Crimea...oh...wait...

But where did all those new unmarked black uniforms come from? Did they always keep them around 'just in case?' And why no insignia? What were they trying to hide?

Russia want some form of armed conflict. At the moment they appear to be doing all they can to get Ukraine to react to their provocations including sending government puppets into Ukraine to stir up protests and pockets of disorder. Russia can't afford to 'lose' Ukraine in Vladimir Putin's eyes hence he is dictating Adolf Hitler-like military invasions.