Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

Guys, i saw the video VICE posted yesterday about those nationalists, and around the 6.40 minutes, the camera focus a German flag in one of the guys being escorted out, and that uniform is used by Germany.

Strange thing indeed.

Here's the video

reply to post by Neph89

Guys, i saw the video VICE posted yesterday about those nationalists, and around the 6.40 minutes, the camera focus a German flag in one of the guys being escorted out, and that uniform is used by Germany.

It's army surplus. You can buy the same jacket just about anywhere.

reply to post by GargIndia

Your point does not help. There is a political authority in Crimea which acted in a certain way due to wishes of the majority of Crimean people.

No, there is a political authority in Crimea that asked the Crimean people to ratify the decision it had already made on its own.

How do you claim to know the wishes of the Crimean people?

Unlike you, I have never claimed to know what the wishes of the Crimean people are. Because of the fraudulent nature of the referendum, no-one does.

There was a referendum because these people wanted to leave Ukraine. Why they wanted to leave Ukraine? Because the economy of Crimea is heavily dependent on Russia and people are mostly ethnic Russians. Ukraine is financially ruined and socially in chaos.

Granted that there were good reasons to leave the turmoil of Ukraine, why was independence not an option? An independent Republic of Crimea could renegotiate its agreement with Russia. Russia might have to pay more for its bases, that's why Russia would not allow Crimean independence. The referendum was a crooked farce.

reply to post by DJW001


"stop fascism!"
"all to the referendum" with crossed out Swastika and Neo nazi parties acronyms is intimidation for you?

demus
reply to post by DJW001

 

"stop fascism!"
"all to the referendum" with crossed out Swastika and Neo nazi parties acronyms is intimidation for you?

It is calling anyone who wishes to remain part of Ukraine a fascist. You wouldn't find being called a Nazi and fascist intimidating? Especially when there are armed troops wearing masks around?

reply to post by DJW001


in referendum the leaders of Crimea asked the people of Crimea to join Russia or stay under Ukraine with autonomy they already had.
why do you think "completely independent" Crimea should have been an option?
and it was on leadership of Crimea to choose options for a referendum.

should they had to ask EU/USA or anybody else how to organize referendum in their own Republic?

DJW001

demus
reply to post by DJW001

 

"stop fascism!"
"all to the referendum" with crossed out Swastika and Neo nazi parties acronyms is intimidation for you?

It is calling anyone who wishes to remain part of Ukraine a fascist. You wouldn't find being called a Nazi and fascist intimidating? Especially when there are armed troops wearing masks around?

clearly they were referring to the new government in Kyiv that indeed came to power violently with support from Neo - nazi groups.

reply to post by DJW001


"Unlike you, I have never claimed to know what the wishes of the Crimean people are. Because of the fraudulent nature of the referendum, no-one does."

Well yes and that applies also in the USA where it does not even matter which way you votes because both sides are owned by the same people, the lobby groups and bankers but you don't need to swing a vote in the Crimea up to 96% to win, it's OTT and people would be caling foul.

No I am like you and don't know for sure but where I live we are still allowed to watch some foriegn news stations and you had millions of people in the streets all throwing street parties with fireworks in the Crimea after the vote and yes for all we know these party goers were forced to party at gun point but I tell you what the smiles on their faces were not the type you get at gun point so unless all the news footage was photoshopped then I am pretty sure that most in the Crimeas were happy to see the back of the nazi lead government that seized power at gun point over the border.

Russia did not jump in all guns blazing else I would had seen it on the news andI have yet to see any images showing this invasion fleet that are building up so remining objective I see the vote as being valid and it's the west that is being aggressive so much so that NASA has closed it's doors to the ISS and the bankers have tried to cripple the Russians banking system.

These are acts of war as are sanctions, they are not up for debate so lets remember who started this mess and personaly I hope that any fighting that takes place should involve american soil and not Europe.

reply to post by VirusGuard

These are acts of war as are sanctions, they are not up for debate so lets remember who started this mess and personaly I hope that any fighting that takes place should involve american soil and not Europe.

I know this is a stupid question, but who do you think 'started this mess?'

demus

DJW001

demus
reply to post by DJW001

 

"stop fascism!"
"all to the referendum" with crossed out Swastika and Neo nazi parties acronyms is intimidation for you?

It is calling anyone who wishes to remain part of Ukraine a fascist. You wouldn't find being called a Nazi and fascist intimidating? Especially when there are armed troops wearing masks around?

clearly they were referring to the new government in Kyiv that indeed came to power violently with support from Neo - nazi groups.

So who would vote in favor of the government in Kiyev? Nazis and fascists... therefore this poster is accusing people who do not want to enslave themselves to join Russia of being Nazis and fascists. Please answer my question: would you find being accused of being a Nazi and fascist while surrounded by armed men wearing masks intimidating or not?

reply to post by demus

why do you think "completely independent" Crimea should have been an option?

That would allow the Crimeans to negotiate equally with Ukraine and Russia. Remember, Russian goods need to pass through Ukraine if they travel overland. Ukraine can now take advantage of this to the detriment of Crimea. On the other hand, if they were independent they could charge Russia more for the use of their ports while still being free of corrupt Ukrainian politics. Now its your turn to explain why it shouldn't be an option.

and it was on leadership of Crimea to choose options for a referendum.

should they had to ask EU/USA or anybody else how to organize referendum in their own Republic?

No. So why did they let Russia do it?

DJW001

demus

DJW001

demus
reply to post by DJW001

 

"stop fascism!"
"all to the referendum" with crossed out Swastika and Neo nazi parties acronyms is intimidation for you?

It is calling anyone who wishes to remain part of Ukraine a fascist. You wouldn't find being called a Nazi and fascist intimidating? Especially when there are armed troops wearing masks around?

clearly they were referring to the new government in Kyiv that indeed came to power violently with support from Neo - nazi groups.

So who would vote in favor of the government in Kiyev? Nazis and fascists... therefore this poster is accusing people who do not want to enslave themselves to join Russia of being Nazis and fascists. Please answer my question: would you find being accused of being a Nazi and fascist while surrounded by armed men wearing masks intimidating or not?

you asking me a hypothetical question is not in any way proof that Crimeans have been in any way intimidated by Russia.
you still have to to show some proof there.

DJW001
reply to post by demus

 

why do you think "completely independent" Crimea should have been an option?

That would allow the Crimeans to negotiate equally with Ukraine and Russia. Remember, Russian goods need to pass through Ukraine if they travel overland. Ukraine can now take advantage of this to the detriment of Crimea. On the other hand, if they were independent they could charge Russia more for the use of their ports while still being free of corrupt Ukrainian politics. Now its your turn to explain why it shouldn't be an option.

and it was on leadership of Crimea to choose options for a referendum.

should they had to ask EU/USA or anybody else how to organize referendum in their own Republic?

No. So why did they let Russia do it?

clearly, Crimeans disagree...
it is not up to me to decide what options should have Crimeans put on for their referendum and it is not up to you as well.
why don't you just respect what they've decided?

why do you think Russia "did it"?
can't you accept that Russia already had such an overwhelming support in the region that they didn't have to do anything except accept Crimea with open hands (which they did).

reply to post by demus

clearly, Crimeans disagree...

Prove it. They were not presented with all the possible options on their ballot, so we do not know how they really felt.

it is not up to me to decide what options should have Crimeans put on for their referendum and it is not up to you as well.

I agree, but it is not up to the Russians either. You have yet to agree with me on that. In fact, you have refused to explain why you think independence should not have been offered as an option. Why not? Is it because you cannot think of a reason that would be bad from the Crimean perspective?

why don't you just respect what they've decided?

Because I have seen no evidence that their true sentiments are reflected in the results of the bogus 'referendum.'

why do you think Russia "did it"?

Because the ballot offered only two choices: one that was unpopular and which would get you denounced as a Nazi if you opted for it, and one which was not so good for Crimea but excellent for Russia. The one that was best for Crimea but terrible for Russia was not included. Why do you think that would be?

can't you accept that Russia already had such an overwhelming support in the region that they didn't have to do anything except accept Crimea with open hands (which they did).

Because they clearly did not. If they did, they would not have needed to put unmarked troops in the streets, and they would not have need to rig the election. Have you seen any actual Crimeans allowed to carry weapons? What's up with that, do you suppose?

Edit to add: Oh, and while I'm thinking of it, am I the only one who noticed that the referendum, as phrased above, does not promise Crimea autonomy if it joins Russia? You do realize that in Russia, governors are appointed, not elected. The Crimeans just 'democratically' voted their democracy away. Ironic, yes?

reply to post by demus

you asking me a hypothetical question is not in any way proof that Crimeans have been in any way intimidated by Russia.
you still have to to show some proof there.

So you wouldn't be in the least intimidated if I denounced you as a Nazi?

DJW001
reply to post by demus

 

you asking me a hypothetical question is not in any way proof that Crimeans have been in any way intimidated by Russia.
you still have to to show some proof there.

So you wouldn't be in the least intimidated if I denounced you as a Nazi?

lol

"here ya go Joe"






p.s change words too suit propaganda

lol


denouce havent heard that word used in this manner since ,,well,, must a been around 42 ought 7.,,yup,,,spit.

I think a group of Ukrainian's should get together and visit an army surplus store, create a 'self defence' group and make a visit to parts of Russia where human rights are being breached everyday. Maybe they could take some armoured personnel carriers with them as well. Even better they could make up their own referendum and have that part of Russia join Ukraine. Of course, the referendum has to be fair so that means Ukrainian flags draped over ballot boxes, boards showing an example of how to tick the box to join Ukraine and to top it off ballot papers already filled in! Sounds legal in my opinion.

dragonridr

cosmonova

dragonridr

GargIndia
reply to post by DJW001

 

Your point does not help. There is a political authority in Crimea which acted in a certain way due to wishes of the majority of Crimean people.

How do you claim to know the wishes of the Crimean people?

There was a referendum because these people wanted to leave Ukraine. Why they wanted to leave Ukraine? Because the economy of Crimea is heavily dependent on Russia and people are mostly ethnic Russians. Ukraine is financially ruined and socially in chaos.

Well the vote was a joke because no one made sure the voting was fair. The UN observers were not allowed to enter. You had people who refused to vote because they didnt think it was legitimate. And if that wasnt enough CNN has video of a man stuffing a ballot box he thought he was so important he voted multiple times.So the out come was decided by a few for the many. If they wanted it to seem legal they did a poor job.

They invited OSCE but they declined

'On March 10, 2014 the de facto Prime Minister of Crimea, Sergei Aksionov, made an unofficial verbal invitation to OSCE to monitor the plebiscite as well.[117][118][119] However, later in the day, an OSCE spokeswoman said that Crimea did not have the authority to invite the organization into the region as it is not a fully-fledged state and, therefore, incapable of requesting services provided exclusively to OSCE members.[118] On March 11, the OSCE chair, Switzerland's Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter, declared the referendum as unconstitutional and therefore the OSCE would not send observers.[120]'

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 4-4-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)

Oh wow another new person is there a memo Putin put out or something? Any way two things dont ever use WIKI as your main source its edited by whoever wants to. Second how do you explain this?

WARSAW -- A mission of observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has been stopped from entering Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula by unidentified men in military fatigues, Poland's defense minister said.

"The mission has been detained, they cannot go further. They landed in Odessa and they were traveling by car from Odessa towards the Crimean Peninsula, but they were detained by unidentified men in fatigues," the defense minister, Tomasz Siemoniak, told reporters.

The OSCE military observer mission of 37 people from 18 countries, including the United States, was stopped at the Crimean border, organization spokesperson Tatyana Baeva said in Vienna. She said it wasn't clear who had stopped the mission, which had been formed at Ukraine's request to help monitor the tense situation in Crimea.

www.cbsnews.com...

OSCE had been stopped to enter Crimea a week or 2 before referendum not for the referendum. At the time they were invited by illegal Ukraine government not by Parliament of Crimea.
As I said they were invited to monitor referendum but they rejected. They were aware that people of Crimea would overwhelmingly support the idea of being a part of Russian Federation. If there was a slight chance of tight result they would be there no doubt about it. To stir the pot.

www.kyivpost.com...

news.err.ee...

ProfessorT
I think a group of Ukrainian's should get together and visit an army surplus store, create a 'self defence' group and make a visit to parts of Russia where human rights are being breached everyday. Maybe they could take some armoured personnel carriers with them as well. Even better they could make up their own referendum and have that part of Russia join Ukraine. Of course, the referendum has to be fair so that means Ukrainian flags draped over ballot boxes, boards showing an example of how to tick the box to join Ukraine and to top it off ballot papers already filled in! Sounds legal in my opinion.

Oh they have tried, do not fool yourself.
www.euronews.com...

cosmonova

dragonridr

cosmonova

dragonridr

GargIndia
reply to post by DJW001

 

Your point does not help. There is a political authority in Crimea which acted in a certain way due to wishes of the majority of Crimean people.

How do you claim to know the wishes of the Crimean people?

There was a referendum because these people wanted to leave Ukraine. Why they wanted to leave Ukraine? Because the economy of Crimea is heavily dependent on Russia and people are mostly ethnic Russians. Ukraine is financially ruined and socially in chaos.

Well the vote was a joke because no one made sure the voting was fair. The UN observers were not allowed to enter. You had people who refused to vote because they didnt think it was legitimate. And if that wasnt enough CNN has video of a man stuffing a ballot box he thought he was so important he voted multiple times.So the out come was decided by a few for the many. If they wanted it to seem legal they did a poor job.

They invited OSCE but they declined

'On March 10, 2014 the de facto Prime Minister of Crimea, Sergei Aksionov, made an unofficial verbal invitation to OSCE to monitor the plebiscite as well.[117][118][119] However, later in the day, an OSCE spokeswoman said that Crimea did not have the authority to invite the organization into the region as it is not a fully-fledged state and, therefore, incapable of requesting services provided exclusively to OSCE members.[118] On March 11, the OSCE chair, Switzerland's Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter, declared the referendum as unconstitutional and therefore the OSCE would not send observers.[120]'

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 4-4-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)

Oh wow another new person is there a memo Putin put out or something? Any way two things dont ever use WIKI as your main source its edited by whoever wants to. Second how do you explain this?

WARSAW -- A mission of observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has been stopped from entering Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula by unidentified men in military fatigues, Poland's defense minister said.

"The mission has been detained, they cannot go further. They landed in Odessa and they were traveling by car from Odessa towards the Crimean Peninsula, but they were detained by unidentified men in fatigues," the defense minister, Tomasz Siemoniak, told reporters.

The OSCE military observer mission of 37 people from 18 countries, including the United States, was stopped at the Crimean border, organization spokesperson Tatyana Baeva said in Vienna. She said it wasn't clear who had stopped the mission, which had been formed at Ukraine's request to help monitor the tense situation in Crimea.

www.cbsnews.com...

OSCE had been stopped to enter Crimea a week or 2 before referendum not for the referendum. At the time they were invited by illegal Ukraine government not by Parliament of Crimea.
As I said they were invited to monitor referendum but they rejected. They were aware that people of Crimea would overwhelmingly support the idea of being a part of Russian Federation. If there was a slight chance of tight result they would be there no doubt about it. To stir the pot.

www.kyivpost.com...

news.err.ee...

No, according to your own sources, it is because Crimea is not a state and could not guarantee their safety.