Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

DJW001
reply to post by demus

 

everything correct, only you forgot to mention the referendum.
citizens of the region that already had some autonomy decided to join Russia.

How many marked the NO box? Oh, wait, there was no 'no' option. Do you consider that to be a fair vote? No-one but Russia does.

so they could choose to stay part of the Ukraine with broad autonomy.
but that is not what propaganda told you, I know - it's hard.

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?" The first option would restore Crimea back to being part of Russia again, as it was before Nikita Kruschev, who was half-Ukrainian himself, gave it as a gift to Ukraine in 1954. The second option of the 1992 constitution would grant the peninsula almost total autonomy while remaining – on paper at least – part of Ukraine.

demus

DJW001
reply to post by demus

 

everything correct, only you forgot to mention the referendum.
citizens of the region that already had some autonomy decided to join Russia.

How many marked the NO box? Oh, wait, there was no 'no' option. Do you consider that to be a fair vote? No-one but Russia does.

so they could choose to stay part of the Ukraine with broad autonomy.
but that is not what propaganda told you, I know - it's hard.

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?" The first option would restore Crimea back to being part of Russia again, as it was before Nikita Kruschev, who was half-Ukrainian himself, gave it as a gift to Ukraine in 1954. The second option of the 1992 constitution would grant the peninsula almost total autonomy while remaining – on paper at least – part of Ukraine.

edit on 3-4-2014 by demus because: misusing breakaway bloodcells

Please post a scan of one of these actual ballots, so we can see for ourselves that the western media are lying.

DJW001

demus

DJW001
reply to post by demus

 

everything correct, only you forgot to mention the referendum.
citizens of the region that already had some autonomy decided to join Russia.

How many marked the NO box? Oh, wait, there was no 'no' option. Do you consider that to be a fair vote? No-one but Russia does.

so they could choose to stay part of the Ukraine with broad autonomy.
but that is not what propaganda told you, I know - it's hard.

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?" The first option would restore Crimea back to being part of Russia again, as it was before Nikita Kruschev, who was half-Ukrainian himself, gave it as a gift to Ukraine in 1954. The second option of the 1992 constitution would grant the peninsula almost total autonomy while remaining – on paper at least – part of Ukraine.

edit on 3-4-2014 by demus because: misusing breakaway bloodcells

Please post a scan of one of these actual ballots, so we can see for ourselves that the western media are lying.

oh, they are not lying, of course not, that would be too obvious: they are just distorting the truth; it worked on you didn't it?
you trust telegraph?

The title is little bit different than the story inside, they do it all the time:

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?"

demus

DJW001

demus

DJW001
reply to post by demus

 

everything correct, only you forgot to mention the referendum.
citizens of the region that already had some autonomy decided to join Russia.

How many marked the NO box? Oh, wait, there was no 'no' option. Do you consider that to be a fair vote? No-one but Russia does.

so they could choose to stay part of the Ukraine with broad autonomy.
but that is not what propaganda told you, I know - it's hard.

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?" The first option would restore Crimea back to being part of Russia again, as it was before Nikita Kruschev, who was half-Ukrainian himself, gave it as a gift to Ukraine in 1954. The second option of the 1992 constitution would grant the peninsula almost total autonomy while remaining – on paper at least – part of Ukraine.

edit on 3-4-2014 by demus because: misusing breakaway bloodcells

Please post a scan of one of these actual ballots, so we can see for ourselves that the western media are lying.

oh, they are not lying, of course not, that would be too obvious: they are just distorting the truth; it worked on you didn't it?
you trust telegraph?

The title is little bit different than the story inside, they do it all the time:

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?"

Do you trust The Telegraph?

But the status quo – remaining a fully fledged province of Ukraine, and rejecting the decisions of a separatist regional government that came to power little more than two weeks ago, was not on the ballot paper. Not that it would have stood much chance if it had been.

Your own source.

DJW001

demus

DJW001

demus

DJW001
reply to post by demus

 

everything correct, only you forgot to mention the referendum.
citizens of the region that already had some autonomy decided to join Russia.

How many marked the NO box? Oh, wait, there was no 'no' option. Do you consider that to be a fair vote? No-one but Russia does.

so they could choose to stay part of the Ukraine with broad autonomy.
but that is not what propaganda told you, I know - it's hard.

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?" The first option would restore Crimea back to being part of Russia again, as it was before Nikita Kruschev, who was half-Ukrainian himself, gave it as a gift to Ukraine in 1954. The second option of the 1992 constitution would grant the peninsula almost total autonomy while remaining – on paper at least – part of Ukraine.

edit on 3-4-2014 by demus because: misusing breakaway bloodcells

Please post a scan of one of these actual ballots, so we can see for ourselves that the western media are lying.

oh, they are not lying, of course not, that would be too obvious: they are just distorting the truth; it worked on you didn't it?
you trust telegraph?

The title is little bit different than the story inside, they do it all the time:

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?"

Do you trust The Telegraph?

But the status quo – remaining a fully fledged province of Ukraine, and rejecting the decisions of a separatist regional government that came to power little more than two weeks ago, was not on the ballot paper. Not that it would have stood much chance if it had been.

Your own source.

I proved my point.
you said there was only option to join Russia.
that is not the truth.
there was option to join Russia or to stay a part of Ukraine with autonomy.

telegraph admits:

Not that it would have stood much chance if it had been.

demus

DJW001

demus

DJW001

demus

DJW001
reply to post by demus

 

everything correct, only you forgot to mention the referendum.
citizens of the region that already had some autonomy decided to join Russia.

How many marked the NO box? Oh, wait, there was no 'no' option. Do you consider that to be a fair vote? No-one but Russia does.

so they could choose to stay part of the Ukraine with broad autonomy.
but that is not what propaganda told you, I know - it's hard.

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?" The first option would restore Crimea back to being part of Russia again, as it was before Nikita Kruschev, who was half-Ukrainian himself, gave it as a gift to Ukraine in 1954. The second option of the 1992 constitution would grant the peninsula almost total autonomy while remaining – on paper at least – part of Ukraine.

edit on 3-4-2014 by demus because: misusing breakaway bloodcells

Please post a scan of one of these actual ballots, so we can see for ourselves that the western media are lying.

oh, they are not lying, of course not, that would be too obvious: they are just distorting the truth; it worked on you didn't it?
you trust telegraph?

The title is little bit different than the story inside, they do it all the time:

Each ballot paper offered voters two options. One was: "Do you support Crimea's unification with Russia as a subject of the Russian Federation?" The other was: "Do you support the reinstatement of the 1992 constitution of the autonomous republic of Crimea and Crimea's status as a part of Ukraine?"

Do you trust The Telegraph?

But the status quo – remaining a fully fledged province of Ukraine, and rejecting the decisions of a separatist regional government that came to power little more than two weeks ago, was not on the ballot paper. Not that it would have stood much chance if it had been.

Your own source.

I proved my point.
you said there was only option to join Russia.
that is not the truth.
there was option to join Russia or to stay a part of Ukraine with autonomy.

telegraph admits:

Not that it would have stood much chance if it had been.

No there was only one option when armed troops are running around. Sorry if you dont see the intimidation tactic at work. Not to mention the fact most people who would have voted to stay where shall we say discouraged by the pro russian group. Same exact method Hitler used to win his election place all the brown shirts into neighborhoods making sure people vote the right way. See people who are scared tend not to vote funny how that works. Im watching you try to protect mother Russia either by your own free will or not. Either way they invaded ukraine a sovereign nation supposedly under the pretext of helping them. Than now they decided to keep the territory they invaded its cut and dry. Its also obvious they manufactured a non existent threat as an excuse to invade. So if we know they lied why are we to believe any election results especially since they went to so much trouble to keep out UN observers?

DJW001
Do you trust The Telegraph?

But the status quo – remaining a fully fledged province of Ukraine, and rejecting the decisions of a separatist regional government that came to power little more than two weeks ago, was not on the ballot paper. Not that it would have stood much chance if it had been.

I am kind of curious about this statement (I realize that it is from the article, not from you)? The status quo was to remain as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea. They have been that way since the collapse of the USSR (1991).

reply to post by peck420


Did you know?

That if u keep hitting people with Reality,,,that it can cause,, Brain Brusing?

So remember,, be gentle out there and ,,,

ONLY U CAN PREVENT BRAIN BRUISING!

Carry on

reply to post by demus

I proved my point.
you said there was only option to join Russia.
that is not the truth.
there was option to join Russia or to stay a part of Ukraine with autonomy.

There was no option to remain independent of both Ukraine and Russia. Why not, do you suppose? And where is an actual scan of a ballot so we can see what it really says? Is that top secret for some reason?

reply to post by DJW001


Your point does not help. There is a political authority in Crimea which acted in a certain way due to wishes of the majority of Crimean people.

How do you claim to know the wishes of the Crimean people?

There was a referendum because these people wanted to leave Ukraine. Why they wanted to leave Ukraine? Because the economy of Crimea is heavily dependent on Russia and people are mostly ethnic Russians. Ukraine is financially ruined and socially in chaos.

GargIndia
reply to post by DJW001

 

Your point does not help. There is a political authority in Crimea which acted in a certain way due to wishes of the majority of Crimean people.

How do you claim to know the wishes of the Crimean people?

There was a referendum because these people wanted to leave Ukraine. Why they wanted to leave Ukraine? Because the economy of Crimea is heavily dependent on Russia and people are mostly ethnic Russians. Ukraine is financially ruined and socially in chaos.

Well the vote was a joke because no one made sure the voting was fair. The UN observers were not allowed to enter. You had people who refused to vote because they didnt think it was legitimate. And if that wasnt enough CNN has video of a man stuffing a ballot box he thought he was so important he voted multiple times.So the out come was decided by a few for the many. If they wanted it to seem legal they did a poor job.

dragonridr

GargIndia
reply to post by DJW001

 

Your point does not help. There is a political authority in Crimea which acted in a certain way due to wishes of the majority of Crimean people.

How do you claim to know the wishes of the Crimean people?

There was a referendum because these people wanted to leave Ukraine. Why they wanted to leave Ukraine? Because the economy of Crimea is heavily dependent on Russia and people are mostly ethnic Russians. Ukraine is financially ruined and socially in chaos.

Well the vote was a joke because no one made sure the voting was fair. The UN observers were not allowed to enter. You had people who refused to vote because they didnt think it was legitimate. And if that wasnt enough CNN has video of a man stuffing a ballot box he thought he was so important he voted multiple times.So the out come was decided by a few for the many. If they wanted it to seem legal they did a poor job.

They invited OSCE but they declined

'On March 10, 2014 the de facto Prime Minister of Crimea, Sergei Aksionov, made an unofficial verbal invitation to OSCE to monitor the plebiscite as well.[117][118][119] However, later in the day, an OSCE spokeswoman said that Crimea did not have the authority to invite the organization into the region as it is not a fully-fledged state and, therefore, incapable of requesting services provided exclusively to OSCE members.[118] On March 11, the OSCE chair, Switzerland's Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter, declared the referendum as unconstitutional and therefore the OSCE would not send observers.[120]'

en.wikipedia.org...

cosmonova

dragonridr

GargIndia
reply to post by DJW001

 

Your point does not help. There is a political authority in Crimea which acted in a certain way due to wishes of the majority of Crimean people.

How do you claim to know the wishes of the Crimean people?

There was a referendum because these people wanted to leave Ukraine. Why they wanted to leave Ukraine? Because the economy of Crimea is heavily dependent on Russia and people are mostly ethnic Russians. Ukraine is financially ruined and socially in chaos.

Well the vote was a joke because no one made sure the voting was fair. The UN observers were not allowed to enter. You had people who refused to vote because they didnt think it was legitimate. And if that wasnt enough CNN has video of a man stuffing a ballot box he thought he was so important he voted multiple times.So the out come was decided by a few for the many. If they wanted it to seem legal they did a poor job.

They invited OSCE but they declined

'On March 10, 2014 the de facto Prime Minister of Crimea, Sergei Aksionov, made an unofficial verbal invitation to OSCE to monitor the plebiscite as well.[117][118][119] However, later in the day, an OSCE spokeswoman said that Crimea did not have the authority to invite the organization into the region as it is not a fully-fledged state and, therefore, incapable of requesting services provided exclusively to OSCE members.[118] On March 11, the OSCE chair, Switzerland's Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter, declared the referendum as unconstitutional and therefore the OSCE would not send observers.[120]'

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 4-4-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)

Oh wow another new person is there a memo Putin put out or something? Any way two things dont ever use WIKI as your main source its edited by whoever wants to. Second how do you explain this?

WARSAW -- A mission of observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has been stopped from entering Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula by unidentified men in military fatigues, Poland's defense minister said.

"The mission has been detained, they cannot go further. They landed in Odessa and they were traveling by car from Odessa towards the Crimean Peninsula, but they were detained by unidentified men in fatigues," the defense minister, Tomasz Siemoniak, told reporters.

The OSCE military observer mission of 37 people from 18 countries, including the United States, was stopped at the Crimean border, organization spokesperson Tatyana Baeva said in Vienna. She said it wasn't clear who had stopped the mission, which had been formed at Ukraine's request to help monitor the tense situation in Crimea.

www.cbsnews.com...

DJW001
reply to post by demus

 

I proved my point.
you said there was only option to join Russia.
that is not the truth.
there was option to join Russia or to stay a part of Ukraine with autonomy.

There was no option to remain independent of both Ukraine and Russia. Why not, do you suppose? And where is an actual scan of a ballot so we can see what it really says? Is that top secret for some reason?

are you trying to say that you know much better what options citizens of Crimea should had on their referendum?

there is a political leadership that decides questions on a referendum depending on the will of the people as well.

large majority of Crimeans didn't protest but actually supported referendum so who are you to protest the options offered on the ballot?

if you want to find scan of the ballot I'm sure you can find it; you can be sure that I will not try and find it for you.

and don't you think that media would be all over it if those two options were not actually the truth; they tried to discredit the referendum with all they got (which is not too much).

why do you people think you can speak in the name of a people from a country/region that you even don't know anything about and all the information you got is from biased media outlets?

Crimeans have supported referendum, Crimeans have supported option to join Russia and Crimeans have celebrated the outcome of the vote as a historical occasion...

first you claimed along with few other posters that there was no option to not join Russia.

now you are asking why the complete independence of Crimea was not offered as option and also asking for somebody to provide a scan of a ballot? (find it yourself)

you guys need to get real and also, get your story straight.

GargIndia
reply to post by DJW001

 

Your point does not help. There is a political authority in Crimea which acted in a certain way due to wishes of the majority of Crimean people.

How do you claim to know the wishes of the Crimean people?

There was a referendum because these people wanted to leave Ukraine. Why they wanted to leave Ukraine? Because the economy of Crimea is heavily dependent on Russia and people are mostly ethnic Russians. Ukraine is financially ruined and socially in chaos.

exactly what I was saying, thank you GargIndia for your effort to try and clarify this.

reply to post by dragonridr


show me the proof of intimidation.

do you really think they had to intimidate Crimeans to get majority vote for joining Russia?

they were welcomed out of their bases.

The title jumps from "Russia declares war on Ukraine" to "World War Three" when I hit the reply button but anyway let me address the "Russia declares war"

I was hoping to see live new footage from the front lines of tanks being blown up and missile shooting down fighter jets, you know the blood and guts you get from war where news reporters are running for there lives but they still manage to keep the camera focused.

Well that didn't happen because Russia has invaded no one and has not fired a single shoot and the only gun fire I have seen was protestors being shoot by nazi groups to course outrage in the west and to allow an excuse for NATO to come in under orders from it's banker freinds from Washington.

Maybe Russia has taken the fight to space because I am still awaiting satalite images of this big Russian build up on the borders that I keep hearing about or in the very least some Google earth images not that I trust google in the slightest.

This is the most boring war I've seen in history and I'm turning the channel over to see whats happeing in Storage Wars

reply to post by VirusGuard


I agree and have already mentioned it.
the title is definitely wrong but it's OK to stay - as only to show how reality get distorted so easily sometimes.

demus
reply to post by VirusGuard

 

I agree and have already mentioned it.
the title is definitely wrong but it's OK to stay - as only to show how reality get distorted so easily sometimes.

The title is incorrect only in so far as Russia has not formally declared war on Ukraine. They have taken up arms against Ukrainian citizens, which is certainly an act of war.

reply to post by demus

show me the proof of intimidation.

do you really think they had to intimidate Crimeans to get majority vote for joining Russia?

No, because there was no option on the ballot for independence. In any event, they simply stuffed the ballot box. That's why they wouldn't allow independent observers. Not even from China or Iran.

they were welcomed out of their bases.

Why shouldn't they be? They were the only source of income now.