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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Apr, 4 2014 @ 09:19 PM
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DJW001

cosmonova

dragonridr

cosmonova

dragonridr

GargIndia
reply to post by DJW001
 


Your point does not help. There is a political authority in Crimea which acted in a certain way due to wishes of the majority of Crimean people.

How do you claim to know the wishes of the Crimean people?

There was a referendum because these people wanted to leave Ukraine. Why they wanted to leave Ukraine? Because the economy of Crimea is heavily dependent on Russia and people are mostly ethnic Russians. Ukraine is financially ruined and socially in chaos.



Well the vote was a joke because no one made sure the voting was fair. The UN observers were not allowed to enter. You had people who refused to vote because they didnt think it was legitimate. And if that wasnt enough CNN has video of a man stuffing a ballot box he thought he was so important he voted multiple times.So the out come was decided by a few for the many. If they wanted it to seem legal they did a poor job.





They invited OSCE but they declined

'On March 10, 2014 the de facto Prime Minister of Crimea, Sergei Aksionov, made an unofficial verbal invitation to OSCE to monitor the plebiscite as well.[117][118][119] However, later in the day, an OSCE spokeswoman said that Crimea did not have the authority to invite the organization into the region as it is not a fully-fledged state and, therefore, incapable of requesting services provided exclusively to OSCE members.[118] On March 11, the OSCE chair, Switzerland's Foreign Minister Didier Burkhalter, declared the referendum as unconstitutional and therefore the OSCE would not send observers.[120]'

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 4-4-2014 by cosmonova because: (no reason given)


Oh wow another new person is there a memo Putin put out or something? Any way two things dont ever use WIKI as your main source its edited by whoever wants to. Second how do you explain this?




WARSAW -- A mission of observers from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) has been stopped from entering Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula by unidentified men in military fatigues, Poland's defense minister said.

"The mission has been detained, they cannot go further. They landed in Odessa and they were traveling by car from Odessa towards the Crimean Peninsula, but they were detained by unidentified men in fatigues," the defense minister, Tomasz Siemoniak, told reporters.

The OSCE military observer mission of 37 people from 18 countries, including the United States, was stopped at the Crimean border, organization spokesperson Tatyana Baeva said in Vienna. She said it wasn't clear who had stopped the mission, which had been formed at Ukraine's request to help monitor the tense situation in Crimea.

www.cbsnews.com...



OSCE had been stopped to enter Crimea a week or 2 before referendum not for the referendum. At the time they were invited by illegal Ukraine government not by Parliament of Crimea.
As I said they were invited to monitor referendum but they rejected. They were aware that people of Crimea would overwhelmingly support the idea of being a part of Russian Federation. If there was a slight chance of tight result they would be there no doubt about it. To stir the pot.

www.kyivpost.com...

news.err.ee...


No, according to your own sources, it is because Crimea is not a state and could not guarantee their safety.



funny that.

'On the request of Ukraine’s new government, a non-military OSCE mission with 40 unarmed observers from 21 countries was supposed to visit the Ukrainian armed forces and the bases of Russia’s Black Sea fleet in the Crimean peninsula. However, news services have reported that armed people in Crimea have prevented the mission from doing its job.'

They were not concerned about their safety when they tried to enter Crimea first time, just prior referendum.
We both know they would be protected like polar bears. The fact that they did not like the possible outcome is a different story.




posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by cosmonova
 



They were not concerned about their safety when they tried to enter Crimea first time, just prior referendum.
We both know they would be protected like polar bears. The fact that they did not like the possible outcome is a different story.


You mean they were afraid of what might happen to them if they reported the truth.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 01:03 AM
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ProfessorT
I think a group of Ukrainian's should get together and visit an army surplus store, create a 'self defence' group and make a visit to parts of Russia where human rights are being breached everyday. Maybe they could take some armoured personnel carriers with them as well. Even better they could make up their own referendum and have that part of Russia join Ukraine. Of course, the referendum has to be fair so that means Ukrainian flags draped over ballot boxes, boards showing an example of how to tick the box to join Ukraine and to top it off ballot papers already filled in! Sounds legal in my opinion.


I think you should answer my question about your claim (10 or so pages back)...

that is what I think.

because I already asked you to reply maybe 3 - 4 times.

and you have decided to just ignore it?

you stated that RT lied about "1 million" people protesting in Donetsk but failed to show any proof of the claim and clearly ignoring my questions (one question actually)

1. where did you see that news?
or
2. why have you lied?

as for your post:

if Ukraine had large Ukrainian minority in autonomous republic which is part of Russian Federation and which hosted their most important Naval group together with other military bases while the government in Moscow has been overthrown violently with support of groups that show open hostility to Ukrainians and the first move of the coup imposed government was to outlaw Ukrainian language which had official status until that time all while the still legaly elected president of Russia is taking shelter in Ukraine together with his family in fear of his life, than yes:
your post would make any sense.

edit on 5-4-2014 by demus because: outcasting cloaked misfits



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by demus
 



I think you should answer my question about your claim (10 or so pages back)...

that is what I think.


Look who is talking, fascist Nazi. Well? Intimidated?



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 01:27 AM
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DJW001
reply to post by demus
 



I think you should answer my question about your claim (10 or so pages back)...

that is what I think.


Look who is talking, fascist Nazi. Well? Intimidated?


well, "professor" do not want to answer a question about the LIE he said.

you will have to admit it is different if somebody just decides to ignore a question that has already been answered and is hypothetical question - trick question (you just like to do that) that you have asked me and I already replied.

if, for example I stated that CNN "propaganda" was crazy because they had report about 1 million Ukrainians protesting Crimean referendum in South Ukraine; you would have probably wanted to know where did I get that information or I was just lying...

so, why you're trying to defend the guy who is spreading disinformation?



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by demus
 



so, why you're trying to defend the guy who is spreading disinformation?


I am not trying to defend someone who is spreading disinformation. I am reminding others that you have yet to admit that independence for Crimea was not on the ballot, despite that being their best option. By voting to become part of Russia, they abandoned their autonomy. You have yet to explain why you think independence should not have been on the ballot. The fact that it was not shows that it was Russia, not Crimea, calling the shots.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 02:50 AM
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DJW001
reply to post by demus
 



so, why you're trying to defend the guy who is spreading disinformation?


I am not trying to defend someone who is spreading disinformation. I am reminding others that you have yet to admit that independence for Crimea was not on the ballot, despite that being their best option. By voting to become part of Russia, they abandoned their autonomy. You have yet to explain why you think independence should not have been on the ballot. The fact that it was not shows that it was Russia, not Crimea, calling the shots.


1. De facto independence of Crimea while still being a part of Ukraine was on the ballot
1.a Complete indepence of Crimea was not on the ballot

2. Crimea have joined Russian Federation as two federal subjects - Republic of Crimea and Federal City of Sevastopol

3. It's not up to me and not up to you to decide what should have been on the ballot - in my personal opinion complete independence of Crimea could have been on the ballot but it is hard to believe that such a small region in very strategic location would have been truly independent (you know this).

3.a I will say again, that was completely up to citizens of Crimea

4. Crimea was and is pro - Russian so Russia didn't have any real need to "call the shots", just to help Crimeans in their intention to join "Mother Russia"...

We all know and can agree that Russia is not the "good guy" here but it is also far from "bad guy" (you know; the world not being black and white)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 03:29 AM
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demus

DJW001
reply to post by demus
 



I think you should answer my question about your claim (10 or so pages back)...

that is what I think.


Look who is talking, fascist Nazi. Well? Intimidated?


well, "professor" do not want to answer a question about the LIE he said.

you will have to admit it is different if somebody just decides to ignore a question that has already been answered and is hypothetical question - trick question (you just like to do that) that you have asked me and I already replied.

if, for example I stated that CNN "propaganda" was crazy because they had report about 1 million Ukrainians protesting Crimean referendum in South Ukraine; you would have probably wanted to know where did I get that information or I was just lying...

so, why you're trying to defend the guy who is spreading disinformation?


Actually that was on a tweet from professor t where it said 1 million. It was an error the actual news article said there was a protest and the city had 1 million residence.My guess is a translation error from someone who didnt speak Russian. But if this is the best you can do in defence of mother Russia time to end your shift and put the next guy on. I showed you proof of fraud in the voting but it didnt matter did it. Since the outcome was pre planned. There legislature went to Russia (probably to get there orders) even before the vote. But again whos going to vote against joining Russia when armed men are running around. Thats why they stopped the UN from entering before the vote supposedly by the Crimean defense force(really well supplied defense force).tne bottom line is Russia wanted Crimea they staged a fake crisis by claiming ethnic Russians were in fear for their lives. Than they used this pretext to invade a country.

Now if you want to know how RT lies thats easy They show the polish border and claim its ethnic Russians streaming across the border running for their lives.Luckily not all Russians believe the propaganda so im sure there is going to be unrest as Russians start to realize the truth its already starting.




posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 03:42 AM
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demus

DJW001
reply to post by demus
 



so, why you're trying to defend the guy who is spreading disinformation?


I am not trying to defend someone who is spreading disinformation. I am reminding others that you have yet to admit that independence for Crimea was not on the ballot, despite that being their best option. By voting to become part of Russia, they abandoned their autonomy. You have yet to explain why you think independence should not have been on the ballot. The fact that it was not shows that it was Russia, not Crimea, calling the shots.


1. De facto independence of Crimea while still being a part of Ukraine was on the ballot
1.a Complete indepence of Crimea was not on the ballot

2. Crimea have joined Russian Federation as two federal subjects - Republic of Crimea and Federal City of Sevastopol

3. It's not up to me and not up to you to decide what should have been on the ballot - in my personal opinion complete independence of Crimea could have been on the ballot but it is hard to believe that such a small region in very strategic location would have been truly independent (you know this).

3.a I will say again, that was completely up to citizens of Crimea

4. Crimea was and is pro - Russian so Russia didn't have any real need to "call the shots", just to help Crimeans in their intention to join "Mother Russia"...

We all know and can agree that Russia is not the "good guy" here but it is also far from "bad guy" (you know; the world not being black and white)


Yeah i agree Russia wasnt the good guy real shame to they could have come out of this looking great instead they just made a land grab. Well this is number 2 as they say three strikes you're out.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 04:35 AM
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Demus you are a troll henceforth I will not be replying to you. I visit this forum because I enjoy it, not because I'm a researcher having to evidence everything I have read about. I have nothing to prove to you. If anything you need to look at the FACTS of what happened in Crimea to realise just how disgusting Russia's actions were. Myself and other people have pointed this out to you in many posts yet, metaphorically speaking, you stick your fingers in your ears spouting nonsense. Truth be told I've been scrolling down your posts because they generally lack anything interesting. So please go and troll elsewhere.

Thanks.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by ProfessorT
 


no need for distractions.
I asked you nicely to explain your post:


ProfessorT

asen_y2k

Over 2,000 people demand referendum at rally in east-Ukrainian city of Lugansk, and 3000 in Donetsk.


Voice of Russia

Seems like only Russian media covering this.
edit on 30/3/14 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)
Russia Today were covering a rally in Ukraine yesterday. They blatantly lied about the number of pro-Russian people who attended. They said "1 million people" and the pictures taken showed a group of 50-100 people. Russian propaganda is so bad, it's funny. They are just cementing Vladimir Putin's pretext.


you failed to do so and you have other posters here trying to defend you, while you're ignoring the question:

1. source for the information that you have provided?

or

2. why have you lied?



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 11:46 AM
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I saw this thought id post it the video shows how civilians are trying to support the Ukrainian military. You can see the difference Ukrainians are scared where in Crimea they were throwing parties. Also discusses NATO saying there has been no significant withdrawal of troops from the supposed war games.

edition.cnn.com...



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:40 PM
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ProfessorT
Demus you are a troll henceforth I will not be replying to you. I visit this forum because I enjoy it, not because I'm a researcher having to evidence everything I have read about. I have nothing to prove to you. If anything you need to look at the FACTS of what happened in Crimea to realise just how disgusting Russia's actions were. Myself and other people have pointed this out to you in many posts yet, metaphorically speaking, you stick your fingers in your ears spouting nonsense. Truth be told I've been scrolling down your posts because they generally lack anything interesting. So please go and troll elsewhere.

Thanks.


Demus you really are doing a mess with them, keep it up.

So, no real news? No invasion yet? Hows the stuff going DW and prof, must get really tiring to get beaten day after day for how long now? 3 weeks and no western ukraine invasion? Im not too sure you guys should be calling anyone troll...

edit on 2014u49201404pm05 by Yusomad because: typos of course...



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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Yusomad

ProfessorT
Demus you are a troll henceforth I will not be replying to you. I visit this forum because I enjoy it, not because I'm a researcher having to evidence everything I have read about. I have nothing to prove to you. If anything you need to look at the FACTS of what happened in Crimea to realise just how disgusting Russia's actions were. Myself and other people have pointed this out to you in many posts yet, metaphorically speaking, you stick your fingers in your ears spouting nonsense. Truth be told I've been scrolling down your posts because they generally lack anything interesting. So please go and troll elsewhere.

Thanks.


Demus you really are doing a mess with them, keep it up.

So, no real news? No invasion yet? Hows the stuff going DW and prof, must get really tiring to get beaten day after day for how long now? 3 weeks and no western ukraine invasion? Im not too sure you guys should be calling anyone troll...

edit on 2014u49201404pm05 by Yusomad because: typos of course...


No because i read an article that Russia is demanding to know troop movements of NATO and claiming NATO is violating an agreement by not telling them. Nato is currently adding troops the the area so not even Vlad the usurper dares risk that fight.Not to mention this time looks like Ukraines going to put up a fight as well this would easily escalate since the EU promised to help on Ukrainian security when they signed the treaty.The only Question now is does Russia wise up and leave Ukraine or pay the costs internationally. Basic choice is simple back down set up Crimea as independent area or ruin the Russian economy its already starting. Gazprom stocks are in free fall .There banks are complaining they have been locked out of currency exchanges.And the Ruble continues to drop pretty soon it will have as much value as the pesos. As they say its only going to get worse from here.
edit on 4/5/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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Ok heres another update apparently Ukraine caught some well armed insurgents in Luhansk province. The funny part is it was 15 guys mind you but they had an arsenal. They had 300 machine guns an antitank grenade launcher and grenades . Oddly this doesn't sound like something you buy at the local hardware store wonder where they got them.Think maybe Russias arming insurgents to stir up trouble? Any way if you watch the vide something else interesting Tymoshenko is running for president on an open platform of joining the EU and NATO and vows to make life uncomfortable for Putin. Way to make your neighbors love you if Putin thinks this is going to be over and everythings going to return to normal i think he has a big surprise coming.

www.foxnews.com...



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by dragonridr
 


could be pro Russian group.

could be Neo - nazi group.

could be a setup.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 06:46 AM
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A big pro Russian rally today in Donetsk, the setup a symbolic Russian Ukrainian border running through the center of the city.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 07:56 AM
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Donetsk regional council is under the control of pro Russians.

Pic

Added, police may have defected, or backed off.
edit on 6/4/14 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 08:04 AM
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Reports of grenades being thrown from the window, water canons being positioned.



posted on Apr, 6 2014 @ 08:07 AM
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In Lugansk there is another pro Russian demonstration.


Thousands of people picketing the building of the Security Service of Ukraine in Luhansk region with a demand to release a suspect in an attempt to overthrow the constitutional order of the leader of "Lugansk Guard" Alexander Kharitonov. This is reported by " Ukrainian News ". Gathered in front of USBU that protects the border police with shields and helmets on, shouting "Shame SBU", "freedom activists", and throw eggs and plastic bottles. Also, protesters block the movement of public transport outside the Soviet. Earlier Lugansk held a rally in support of the referendum on the federalization of Ukraine.



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