Wow... England Needs A Revolution...

reply to post by EvanB


Globalisation and immigration has been a disaster for the working class and increasingly the middle class in the UK.

By way of example, under Blair, 99% of new public sector jobs went to immgrants. Under Cameron the figure is still 80%. These figures beggar belief but are true

99 percent of new jobs since 1997 are accounted for by immigration.

www.spectator.co.uk...

Here is a link from the Guardian cackhandidly trying to deny the percentages but in fact merely confirming them

www.guardian.co.uk...

Here is a link showing that House of Lords found no net economic benefit from immigration

Migration has brought 'zero' economic benefit

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Yet, while the effect has been a zero overall economic benefit, there have been winners and losers. The indiginious poor and increasingly now the middle class in the UK have suffered while the super rich have gained.

The super rich and their politcal cronies (in all of the UK mainstream political parties) are terrfied of any force arising to challenge the status quo and current trends - wealth flowing towards them while the poor grow weaker.

One major insitution that tradtionally protected individuals was the nation state.

This has been systemtically weakened by immigration and a media which largely undermines any sense of British nationalism or pride in being British.

Expect any group which looks as if may have the potential to challenge the alliance of big business and politicans to be attacked mercilessly by the UK press, which of course has also been bought and paid for.

Big business these days is almost entirely multi-national in its nature. It has no interest in protecting the UK's welfare as a whole. It does have an interest in promoting the interest's of the super rich at the expense of those at the bottom of society.

Originally posted by MaxSteiner
reply to post by EvanB

 

Drowning?
How old are you dude?

I live in one of the most deprived areas of the UK and it is in noway as bad as it was in the early 80s!
There's no burned out cars on the street for starts...

Just don't understand how you think it's that bad, what are you comparing it too?
How big is your TV?
You have a computer and the internet.

Get real!

You should try to get your head around this concept of relativity. Yes deprivation was bad in the 80's....a family wage became a thing of the past. Skilled jobs, in their thousands, went overnight...and were replaced with...

Spin doctors, manufactured statistics, drugs, reality tv. Anyone else remember when we used to get the unemployment stats on the news nightly - then it just stopped ...least said soonest mended. It didn't mean the problems got any better tho.' Unemployment is in fact now higher than it was in the 1980's. Remember the incapacity benefit scam? Or when you used to get unemployment benefit for a year - thatcher changed it to 6 months and the unemployment figures halved overnight.....oh and the current figures are still higher.

What we got is pretty efficient at playing the system...all of us...the puppet masters and we as the puppets. There's been this bloody awful quid quo pro thing been going on.

The black economy in this country is massive - I can buy a dvd player for tenner (please don't use depreciating electronics as an indicator of affluence in a household) but the domestic quarterly fuel bills cost a month's salary. The company that owns our power company - courtesy of globalization - is foreign owned with no vested interest in the welfare of it's customer base. And the foreign owned company is owned by yet more short term foreign shareholders. They make big profits and we pay thru the nose for basic essentials like heat and water.

And 'nu-labour' was the newest political party in Britain when it took office....and the most right wing we have ever known.

Sure you've got no burned out cars like in the 80's - but then in the 80's they didn't have CCTV on every street corner either. There was still a notion of a right to privacy etc.

Bring back the mixed economy. Britain used to be the best example of a successful mixed economy in the world. Get the necessities (gas, electricity and water) back into the hands of the state and put everything else back up for auction.

Originally posted by DaveNorris
so if most of the country feels the same as we do why does nobody do anything about it,

Because like the most of us british we bend over and take it. Pathetic really. I am not saying I am any different.

Originally posted by DaveNorris
and what could they do anyway?

We cannot do anything. Almost sounded like you were heading towards a contradiction then.

When was the last time anyone here went to a political hustings meeting? Seriously - if you've never done so - you should go. The quality of people in attendance is NOT very high. In fact at the meeting I attended a cpl of nice ladies had brought their knitting. One other lady described the event as 'marvellous, just like the old days, there must have been at least 50 people there.' These are the meetings that determine the party's policies.

Ordinary people should go along - honestly if you speak an iota of common sense they'll put you down as a genius. Not necessarily saying you'll go far - but enough of us were to actually get involved we would eventually outnumber them.

Here's a wee ditty about the leader of Edinburgh District Council and our glorious Scottish legal establishment. Also expresses a lot of what's wrong with the money mad culture of our establishment. The lass was so sickened she moved to South Korea.
A Golden Handshake

Originally posted by Firefly_
reply to post by JonoEnglish

 

On the off chance I am not being baited, I will respond to you for the last time.

You are the one doing a lot of assuming. Nobody (I hope) is calling for blind revolution. Of course a revolution will have a goal. Personally, I am not a politician and have no desire to be one. But i'm sure that any leaders of a revolution will know exactly what they are doing.

Can't you see the current system is corrupt. We need rid of the monarchy, who have idly sat by and let the corrupt politicians run this country into the ground. We need rid of the closed 3-party system. We basically need to burn the system as it stands to the ground and rebuild a new one from scratch. Dont ask me how because I dont know. But again, I am sure that the leaders of a revolution will know what they are doing.

We don't have a closed 3 party system, haven't for a very long time. Do you vote? Do you look at your ballot paper? The three parties that have most seats are the three that have received most votes, but if you live in a consituency with only 3 parties on the paper then you really are in the minority.

Why do you think leaders of a revolution will know what they are doing? Why are you so sure you would agree with them - it's hardly as though they will be voted in is it?

Why is is so cheap to blame the monarchy? They don't run the courts, in fact I'm fairly sure they wouldn't be able to push for a prosecution if they wanted to. Not every politician is corrupt, if you don't like them, vote them out. The 'system' doesn't need to be burned down, it's usually angst ridden students who come out with such vacuous statements that in themselves mean absolutely nothing.

reply to post by christina-66


Don't subscribe to that at all really Im afraid.
I think alot of the problems people are encountering is that they are trying to live locally in a global world.

Simply put, even if we went back to that magical time you're talking about, Britain wouldn't be able to compete with other countries.

Bills are high, but you get paid 20p per unit of electircity you sell to the grid, and thats tax free, the higher the rates get the more you make.

People need to live within their means and make the most of the new world instead of bemoaning the fact that the old days are past.
Costs are increasing all over its true, but that's just the way things are, get over it, adapt to it and things are easier.

Council tax to high? Get student status. Bills to high? Get a lodger.

Nationalising all the infastructure won't work. We sold it off because its all shagged, and the cost of doing anyhting more than painting the rust was astronomically high.

Calls for revolution, or an end to immegration/globalisation are fine if they make you feel better, but don't exect any sensible people to take you seriously. The country would collapse in the transition far faster than it is now, and the only people left to sort it out would be extremists (who would end up the exact same way as our current politians are now in under a year...)

My personal start to a revolution is to try to convince anybody who'll listen to me NOT TO VOTE, if less than 50% of the population voted, then, by their own standards, any government formed from that election is INVALID (democracy is majority rule) then an uprising against that "government" is justified, and indeed, should have military and international backing

So remember not voting is the new voting

Originally posted by Mister_Bit
reply to post by navy_vet_stg3

 

Too many things, but in a nutshell and without going into too much detail - sold off over 20 British Industries to private companies and other countries leaving them free to profiteer (gas, trains, shipping, BT, coal, steel, high unemployment rates followed)
Poll tax, crippled and criminalized people.
Increased animosity between rich and poor, north and south.
Took power away from the unions (workers should have a right in what they do otherwise it's slavery)

Regardless over whether we agree or disagree with the Thatcher years (for what it's worth, I think a lot of the things done were to the ultimate benefit of the country and I'm fairly sure we wouldn't be sitting here now praising Michael Foot if he had got in), do you really think the leaders of the major unions care about the individual workers that much? Really? If there is a gravy boat, they are swimming in it and drinking it dry.

reply to post by yellowbeard


Doesn't work in the UK I'm afraid.
Our form of democracy is based on rich land owneers having the vote, it's not a democratic system.

The fact that women and plebs are allowed to vote is just a nod towards modernity.

If all the so called "Revolutionaries" joined political parties they might have an effect. Not voting doesn't do anything.
(My ward has had less than 30% on far more occasions than you would have thought possible!)

Originally posted by MaxSteiner
reply to post by EvanB

 

We're printing Libyan money because we have one of the best mints in the world, and are able to produce large bodies of cash which is VERY difficult to forge, in very little time.
We also mint Euros in the UK.

Cheers for that.

It just looked strange to me

Originally posted by EvanB

I could go on and on, but I see no way out it.

Simples: Demand a confidence vote in the HoC and when it comes up "no confidence" hold new elections and don't make the same mistake as last time.

Really, if you had a revolution how would the rebels pick a new leader? How will you choose the new Lord Protector? Will you invade Scotland and Ireland again?

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Swanfilters

 

give me a Jock any day over some namby pamby, self-centred, opinionated, loud mouthed southerner

You forgot to add "arm waving"

your applause is appreciated,
your freindship is cherished ,
we know where we stand.
Thank God for those weekends, mates and motorways,
When youve done it for fun,
You can do it against tyranny

RK

Originally posted by EvanB
They do use a lot of imported cheap labour and they are notorious for misstreating them but there is nothing I can do about that.

So you don't mind taking blood money then?

Originally posted by JonoEnglish

You don't by chance support the BNP do you?

White = British. Bah

Maybe we should ban people from emigrating so not to be hypocritical.

I was guessing he was EDL myself.

Originally posted by MaxSteiner
reply to post by yellowbeard

 

Doesn't work in the UK I'm afraid.
Our form of democracy is based on rich land owneers having the vote, it's not a democratic system.

The fact that women and plebs are allowed to vote is just a nod towards modernity.

If all the so called "Revolutionaries" joined political parties they might have an effect. Not voting doesn't do anything.
(My ward has had less than 30% on far more occasions than you would have thought possible!)

With respect, What absolute twaddle, the political party system is divide and conquer at it's best (refer to many, many posts by our American members, political indoctrination at it's "best")

I'm not saying ask permission to revolt from our glorious overlords, I'm saying if less than 50% of the population vote, storm parliament


Oh, and I see the trolls are doing their work well here, turning this thread into a conservative v labour argument IT'S NOT ABOUT PARTIES it's about PEOPLE

Originally posted by yellowbeard
My personal start to a revolution is to try to convince anybody who'll listen to me NOT TO VOTE, if less than 50% of the population voted, then, by their own standards, any government formed from that election is INVALID (democracy is majority rule) then an uprising against that "government" is justified, and indeed, should have military and international backing

So remember not voting is the new voting

Untrue.

If only 10 percent of the people vote, 100% of those people have still voted. Democracy is about freedom to choose. If you choose not to vote, that is your decision.

So. 10% of people vote. 75% of those vote tories, 15% labor and 10% somthing else. The tories still win. Simply because 90% of the people did not vote means nothing. I challenge you to find in your constitution or laws anything that says if less than 50% of people vote, it is invalid. Its simply not the way it works.

reply to post by nightbringr


Nope, you're letting them do your thinking for you....... MAJORITY RULE

reply to post by yellowbeard


The illusion of choice in the ballot box. Its all an illusion. I have to agree with you.
Last time i voted, I threw a wobble and said, I vote these thieves into jail!!!
Then I ripped up the voting paper as EDL, were not on the list. I would have voted for them as a protest vote. Not that voting them in, would change anything. The whole system needs changing.

reply to post by EvanB


I've always wondered how many countries money we are capable of printing
We could be doing what North Korea does - printing our own dollars and live the high life!
(Wish we'd done it to pay off the war debt, always pisses me when americans talk about WW2, but never mention that they charged us for it and we paid back every penny we owed...)

Originally posted by yellowbeard
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Nope, you're letting them do your thinking for you....... MAJORITY RULE

Ok lets pretend it worked your way.

So only 10% vote and the government is declared invalid. What then? Do the other 90% get together and decide what type of government is installed? That wouldnt be democracy then would it, as the other 10% would be excluded.

Furthermore, the 90% who didnt vote wouldnt agree on what type of government to install anyways! Some may want communism, some national socialism (shudder the thought), some somthing more moderate in the middle. Hell, i spoke with someone earlier today who wanted an absolute monarchy again!

Your suggestion would solve no problems.