Being Gay isnt natural

reply to post by Haydn_17


Reproduction isn't the only function of living creatures; there are states in which reproduction isn't the proper function. Regardless, any discrete state/stage is entirely a natural process. When a population of any animal, insect or plant overpopulates (sheer size or overpopulation of a certain gender), the natural normal biological process sways more of that population towards the opposite gender or otherwise easing the growth of the population a bit. In some cases, biology literally changes the gender in a matter of days or weeks to the other side - see tree frogs.

At all times, at least some small portion of the population will exhibit strong tendencies toward non-reproductive sexual and lifestyle satisfaction.

The only unnatural thing is our current civilization. Our existence is often an artificially created, artificially fueled madness that is NOT natural to our biology. We have lost something in our past, a furious and debilitating loss that is slowly being re-described. Homosexuality is part and parcel of heterosexuality, and vice versa.

Normal. Natural.

Definition of NATURAL
1: based on an inherent sense of right and wrong
2a : being in accordance with or determined by nature
b : having or constituting a classification based on features existing in nature.

To revisit this thread as it's grown pretty lengthy, I just had to look and see what the definition of natural is,
and then look around me and see just how close we all are, collectively to 'natural'.
What I've concluded in just a few brief minutes of thought is, we are all far from natural, and it would be a pretty arrogant position to be coming from to start passing judgement on others.

Religion isnt natural.
Marriage isnt natural.
Buying irradiated food in plastic bags isnt natural.
Working 55 stories up in a cubical isnt natural.
55 story buildings arent natural.
Watching television isnt natural.
Money isnt natural.
Abortions arent natural.
Telephones arent natural.
Heart doctors arent natural.
Curing the deformed and sick isnt natural.
Celibacy isnt natural.
and the list is endless.

What seems to be very natural is fear, and so many systems and things have been created by man to either validate their behaviors against these fears, or to offer some type of protection, judgement, and regulation against these fears.
People attacking other people who have done nothing to them personally,
havent lifted a finger to them personally,
are motivated by fear, and the fear controls so much, that they will attack even the mention of them being afraid.
I couldnt care less about someones adult consensual sexual choice.
Here's an alternate sexual problem, pedophilia!
Now there's something to raise a ruckus about, I believe that all the heteros and homos would quickly find a common ground and a position shared in curing that nasty problem,
one that is truly, un natural.

reply to post by YeshuaWarrior


That was meant as a joke yeah? Hard to tell. Please let the whole community know you abide by every rule in the bible, if not then we can break it down further. I'm assuming you haven't simply chosen the bits you wish to justify your narrow and frankly daft views by?

Originally posted by Haydn_17


Being Gay is against Humanity and Nature, our core objective as a species is to reproduce, to keep our species alive, there is no such thing as an immortal organism. They all die, and to continue the survival of the species they must all reproduce before they die. To keep the species stable.

It doesn't matter that Earth is overpopulated, if everyone suddenly woke up Gay Humanity would be extinct within 50 years.

People forget, we are surrounded by technology, social trends, but deep down, really we are animals, animals with basic instincts, to survive, to reproduce, for some reason our society is losing its instinct to reproduce, 1% of the UK see themselves as being Gay or Lesbian, not much, but what will the figure be like in 100 years time? 10%?

I know i have probaly offended a lot of people with this thread, i don't intend to, i just want to understand where has the instinct to reproduce with the opposite sex gone?

I am entitled to my opinions, again i mean no disrespect to Gay, Lesbian, Transexual people.

I just want to understand

Thanks

edit on 23-9-2010 by Haydn_17 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-9-2010 by Haydn_17 because: (no reason given)

Well then if you are against homosexuality based on the fact that they cannot reproduce, then you should be against marriages between adults that are physically incapable of conceiving, like a woman who had ovarian cancer. I'd love to see that post. "Relationships with women who can't conceive is against humanity"

reply to post by whitl103


I love hypotheticals. Hypothetically speaking, if I put 50 men and 50 women on a planet what would that planet be like in 100 years? It would probably still exist provided they weren't wiped out by an asteroid. There would be families with children. Possibly grand children.

However, if I took 100 gay men and put them on a planet then what would that planet be like in 100 years? It would be just a group of old men. That's assuming they all lived to be over a hundred.

I think at some point gays must understand the evolutionary requirement of reproduction. Now this is going to sound tough for some to hear. Is it possible being gay is a biological defect?

reply to post by logican


Only one has ever been perfect and that is Jesus, and He died as a sacrifice for my sins. Thats right I am a sinner. I will not make it to heaven based on my good deeds or how sinless I try to live because I can never live up to the standards that God has set........Thats exactly why I need a savior, Jesus.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

In other words, no one gets to heaven except by submitting to Jesus....not by deeds or good works or living a sinless life.

My sins are different but no better than than that of a homosexual. All sin will keep you from heaven...thats why ALL need to submit to Jesus. Anyone, no matter what sin he/she has comitted has the free choice of submitting to Jesus to be cleansed of ALL sin, just repent and make Jesus Lord of your life...this and only this makes you in right standing before God the Father.

We can go back and forth all night, so I will just leave it at this. Peace and God's love be with you.

You fear that humanity will turn all gay and will stop procreating.

The bigger problem is that humanity might not be able to procreate at all because of sperm count loss.

Fortunatly we have sex so often that we greatly increase the chances of impregnation, the really big 'crime' would be using a condom or contraceptives

But I personally encourage contraceptives and am a 100% tollerant to gay people but will kindly tell them i'm not gay if they come on on me.

I think 6-7 billion is enough humans on our small planet.

Originally posted by Come Clean
However, if I took 100 gay men and put them on a planet then what would that planet be like in 100 years? It would be just a group of old men. That's assuming they all lived to be over a hundred.

If it's 50/50, gay men and women, they could still have sex just for reproductive reasons, some people take horrible jobs because they have to in order to survive, not because they like it. Now if you were talking about 100 gay males, well of course they won't be able to do anything and after 100 years most of them will probably be gone, but the same deal would happen to 100 straight men.

Originally posted by filosophia
. . . And since I mentioned it, I would also like to counter the argument that people are gay because of their genes. If that were the case, how do you explain now famous actors who performed gay roles to boost their careers?

Do you think actors become gay because they act gay roles?
Do you also think they become murderers if they act murderer roles?

Of course they don't, that's why it's called acting.

It seems like with anything, if you want it badly enough, genes or no genes, you will get it if you are persistent.

How does that apply to gay guys, most of whom have a really hard time accepting their own identity as gays, and who often lose friends, get rejected by family and scorned by society for it?

Would you find it easy to accept the fact if you found you were only attracted to males and couldn't feel anything for girls?

I've had homosexual thoughts, does that mean it's in my genes, or does it mean that since gay is not in my genes, they are just thoughts?

Imagine a gayness ruler. Instead of 1 inch at one end and 12 inches at the other, it has "totally straight" at one end and "totally gay" at the other. Some people are at one end, some at the other, and the rest can be anywhere in between.
I see you are wondering, deep down, just where you fit on that ruler.

Remember the last time you felt stupidly shy, and could hardly get a word out?
Was that with a guy or a girl?
Mostly that indicates sexual attraction.

You sound pretty young to me. I suggest you take your time about relationships, and make lots of different friends, until you know for sure what sort of body your manhood longs for.

I'm confused, but basically, the whole gene theory is I think as backwards as saying "fate" made me do it, like saying I'm gay because God made me that way, same as saying I'm gay because Darwinism made me that way, which of course is nonsense since the gay gene would most likely die out because gays can not reproduce, so I agree that gay is unnatural for that reason,

Yes, you are confused.
First, lots of gay people have fathered babies. Not liking it with girls doesn't mean a gay guy can't do it with a girl. He's not sterile, and nor are gay women.

Do you know about recessive genes? A lot of rarer traits, like red hair and blue eyes, are passed down by genes that do nothing unless the child gets the same recessive gene from each parent. Even if you killed all red-haired children at birth, there would always be more born from the unseen recessive genes getting together.

It looks likely there is some genetic basis for male homosexuality becasue sisters of homosexuals tend to have more babies than other girls. So it could be a combination of recessive genes, and when the girls have them they have more babies, so more of those genes continue on in that society.

We're social creatures, and the types of genes that made us will survive if our society survives.

but again, what if you were bisexual, then you would be gay, but also straight, so you could reproduce while also enjoying the company of men (or women).

Each to their own, just be responsible and try not to hurt anyone, especially yourself.
I believe far more people are bisexual than actually realise it.

Originally posted by Come Clean
. . . if I took 100 gay men and put them on a planet then what would that planet be like in 100 years? It would be just a group of old men. That's assuming they all lived to be over a hundred.

if I took 100 straight men and put them on a planet then what would that planet be like in 100 years? It would be just a group of old men. That's assuming they all lived to be over a hundred.

I guess being a straight male must be some kind of defect.

reply to post by YeshuaWarrior




So are all football players sinners and damned to Hell just for touching a football? Is anyone who wears something that is a blend going to Hell? Do you strictly follow Levitican Law??? Or do you pick and choose what to follow and what to not follow and how do you know which ones are which???

reply to post by Haydn_17


Being gay isn't something you wake up one day and decide to be. Heterosexual couples feel a connectedness to each other that transcends sex. I feel the same bond with my wife, and sex for us is a spiritual as well as physical experience. Sex with a male would be abnormal for me being a lesbian. I don't connect with men on the physical level at all. I find the idea nauseating, as would a heterosexual person would be nauseated by the idea of gay sex.

My advice to you is to stop trying to understand and just accept that we are just as normal as you are. And we, too, want to keep our bedrooms private. That should be easy to understand.

reply to post by Come Clean


I would think you would eventually have kids with gills, flippers and possibly 12 toes on one hand due to the inbreaading that would eventually occur.

I still find this argument funny since it comes from religious texts a loooong time ago. The exact same texts that state people were created in Gods image, as well as God being the only person who can judge others, treat others as you want to be treated yourself.

For those unfamiliar with this setup, it can be called Caffeteria Catholics (or insert any other religion here). Its where people cherry pick their religious doctrines to support an argument, while ignoring the other parts that specifically state that these same people are not qulalified to judge others.

Having a Straight person lecture people on how being gay is not natural, is about as authorative as a gay person lecturing a transgendered person not being natural, is about as authorative as a straight person lecturing a bisexual on not being natural.

the other hypocritical point I will point out in this area is I love how people will go off on gay guys and be offended because they are gay and not natural, while at the same time the majority of those people have no issues watching 2 chicks going at.

I think technology is the reason.
Maybe population control mixed with the programming to try to act out surreal situations through TV programming and what not.
We lose ourselves and our true identity whether primal being or spiritual being.
It goes way beyond the gay or lesbian identity.
We create all these false identities and lose ourselves along the way.
I think on some level there is a fear factor involved also.
Fear of being this or that and we becomes secluded and repressed, anti social and insecure, therefore despondent and easily controlled.
On top of that we create anger amongst each-other and hatred towards each other.
I definitely think this is an attack on the psyche.
Psychological control mixed with processed food and and hormone injected foods that have us pulsating out of control.
Are hormones are all whacked and then we have these awkward moments and this creates aggression or suppression.
We start thinking we must be this or thought without the ability to make a conscious logical decision about what just happened in that situation.

Homosexuality isn't just for humans.

I'm interested to know why you believe that the proportion of gay people would increase at a rate that doesn't correspond with the general population? Or, in fact, why you believe it was ever less? Just because gay individuals have not been as visible in society in past times, does not mean that they have not been there in similar numbers. It seems that you're basing your viewpoint on a few assumptions!

Being gay is genetic and it is a choice because there are plenty of people with a simple variation of a DNA gene that chooses what and which sex they are more interested in, but for society sake remand in the closet, marry the opposite sex, and choose to never commit gay acts even though the idea excites them. Everybody is different. Therefore, it can be genetic, a choice, and it can be the various sexual appetites of human beings because some people just like it normal 1-inisde-0 style, some people love it kinky, and some people will do or take whatever they can get. Some people have sex with animals. Is that a genetic modification in the DNA of the sex organ's brain to not be straight, not be gay, but be an animal f#$%er? Or, don't all human beings have the intellect to choose to do what they do and hump or be humped by it/her/him/shim/betsy (anything they want)? Granted the choice to act on those urges is a natural process of thought formed by the mixture of different chemicals at various times in the lifetime of our brains, it has to be natural/genetic because our organism has technically evolved to the point of being able to come to the realization of what excites them and to choose to act. Anything we choose to do is natural and genetic because we are natural because of our genetics.

Originally posted by Haydn_17


Being Gay is against Humanity and Nature, our core objective as a species is to reproduce, to keep our species alive, there is no such thing as an immortal organism. They all die, and to continue the survival of the species they must all reproduce before they die. To keep the species stable.

It doesn't matter that Earth is overpopulated, if everyone suddenly woke up Gay Humanity would be extinct within 50 years.

People forget, we are surrounded by technology, social trends, but deep down, really we are animals, animals with basic instincts, to survive, to reproduce, for some reason our society is losing its instinct to reproduce, 1% of the UK see themselves as being Gay or Lesbian, not much, but what will the figure be like in 100 years time? 10%?

I know i have probaly offended a lot of people with this thread, i don't intend to, i just want to understand where has the instinct to reproduce with the opposite sex gone?

I am entitled to my opinions, again i mean no disrespect to Gay, Lesbian, Transexual people.

I just want to understand

Thanks

edit on 23-9-2010 by Haydn_17 because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-9-2010 by Haydn_17 because: (no reason given)

Do you have any scientific evidence that would prove "being gay is not natural" or?

Sure humanity would go on if everyone woke up "gay" by artificial insemination maybe even cloning. Homosexuality is not on the list for human extinction at all. Heck even Artificial insemination may weed out some of the undesirable traits with candidates without inherited diseases. maybe even undesirables like fat people genes or short people genes could be phased out? Joking But the thing is nobody wakes up gay nor will that happen. Technology has no affect on our sexual hard wiring. Maybe some people experiment in college after some heavy drinking sure. So what is the point of this thread? It exists even in the animal kingdom after all, some su called religious folk say gays are against GOD and if that was the case then why would such a GOD create people this way? What would this omnipotent perfect GOD create something that is not suppose to be? From what i know people are gay at birth and the signs are always there. You don't chose being gay as a life style. It is the way the brain is wired and it is just that simple.

Are gays going to destroy the planet? NO

Are Gays going to take you're job? NO

Are gays going to take you're rights away from you? NO

Will gays invade the US with their huge NAVY's ? NO

Will they blow up our buildings with thermite demolitions? NO

Do you have to date gays? Do you have to watch what goes on in Gay people bedrooms?

Gay people have no stake in my life or yours, if it is between them and GOD then what is the point in these issues? Homophobia and closet racism run amuck , this is as silly an argument as Obama being a Arab Muslim ect. For @$%* sakes people live you're life and stop worrying what billy and bobby are doing.

I sometimes see a hot lesbian and think what a waste im jealous some chick is getting more action than me and i think some of this hating comes from our own in-securitys . Maybe many have closeted sub conscious homo sexual thought and feelings being suppressed. Maybe we are all bi sexual to a lesser extent and most of us just do not know it? I happen to know a few straight guys that enjoy tranny porn lol. They swear they are straight btw.

If homosexuality isn't a biological element that didn't occur naturally, then somebody please, please, please tell me why the majority of homosexuals can only achieve full sexual arousal and desire in response to people of the same gender? Please educate me about why a homosexual is capable of being attracted to the same gender, but not the opposite gender, when I'm capable of being of attracted to the opposite gender, but not the same gender?

How do I achieve a desire to be attracted to the same gender like these magical homosexuals are able to? When I'm with a woman it feels normal to me. The thought of being with a man does not feel normal to me. The inverse to this is also true. A homosexual man being with another man would feel normal to that man, obviously. But a homosexual man being with a woman would not feel normal.

What's normal is a matter of perception and acceptance. Same can be said for what is natural. And being that humans are also living biological organisms, same as animals, and animals have displayed homosexual behavior amongst different species, then that clearly shows me that homosexuality, for whatever reason, is a natural occurrence.

Originally posted by tooo many pills
Being gay is genetic and it is a choice because there are plenty of people with a simple variation of a DNA gene that chooses what and which sex they are more interested in, but for society sake remand in the closet, marry the opposite sex, and choose to never commit gay acts even though the idea excites them...

edit on 25-9-2010 by tooo many pills because: (no reason given)

So what you're saying is that people who engage in sexual acts to which their NATURAL instincts are diametrically opposed are choosing to do so for their own betterment? I think you have to take into consideration that it's the fear of social retribution which causes most people to do this - not a free choice. It seems to me to be paradoxical that someone would actively 'choose' to do something from which they derived no pleasure and which felt unnatural.