Evidence of an Ancient Advanced civilization that spanned the Globe

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Why can we not replicate them?

I've heard this a lot but it seems to me engineers or even a decent bricky never agrees. Why should they when we actually do have the ability to weave a cloth that can filter water or aim lasers over 384k km of space and bounce them off a mirror that's a couple of square feet. It's a bit short sighted to think we can't move a 1000 tonne stone a few miles when we've launched 100 tonne payloads into space.

The Taisun crane can lift 20,000 tonnes, Cleopatra's Needle weighed 200 tonnes and the transportation of that is well documented.

Ancient building techniques are well understood too, fire and water a great for splitting rocks. All you need is a starting line. This can be achieved by engraving a line then applying heat or drill tiny little holes, fill them with pegs then apply water.

All the meso-american structures were assumed to be built without metal but that's a debatable point since smelters that predate Columbus have been found, the Inca knew of metallurgy.

Seems no matter where we look they had the potential with the technology and the means available, I personally find it a bit ignorant to think people of history couldn't achieve these great works.

a reply to: chr0naut

I've heard that idea before... problem is machu pichu might be some sort of composite pouring or molded...

Can't see that happening with solid granite or diorite... Melting and reforming stone might be possible, but we know where most of these stones came from... and in many cases the quarries were miles away

IF they were melted and reformed they wouldn't maintain their structure which is how we know where they came from

These blocks were transported from one place to another in one solid piece

a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

The problem with melting stone is it will be a different product once it sets. All sorts of problems with that and probably too many variables to control.

Plus we'd know via testing when we trace the geological origins of the stones.

a reply to: RAY1990

en.wikipedia.org...

Check out the size of that machine...

How you gonna get that up a mountian?

let alone move said blocks several miles...

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Why can we not replicate them?

That's easy.

There's a new CoD game just out and then the 2nd series of that really popular show on Netflix and, anyway, the pizza guy will be here in a minute. We'll do it tomorrow ...... Oh, by the way, you didn't mention how much you were going to pay me? What?!!!! Sod that for a game of soldiers. I'm off to the pub!

But, give me 100 fit men in their 20s and 30s willing to do whatever I tell them to do for 5 years straight (working whatever hours I say, doing whatever I say to do, even if it means grinding a stone for 8 hours a day, every day, for 30 weeks - for example) in return for a bowl of stew a day, and I'll replicate anything our ancestors 5,000 years could do

a reply to: Akragon

There's claims we can't move super heavy loads, we can. It's why I mentioned Cleopatra's Needle too since that was moved over land, sea and then ocean.

Machu Picchu I've never looked into too much if that's what you're referring to? They had wheels, they had metal and they had man power. Block and tackle techniques? There's other methods of using leverage if they didn't have ropes.

Interestingly...

Incans could write

a reply to: RAY1990

yeah we can move pretty heavy loads... we can't move extremely heavy loads up mountains

We can't move 1200 ton blocks without huge equipment, nevermind ropes... they're pretty much out of the question

We can't move hundreds of these heavy blocks and place they so precise that you can barely see the cross section

We can cut this kind of stone... but i'd bet even the most experienced stone mason on the planet couldn't do what these ancient people could do... even with the machinery we have

a reply to: AndyMayhew

I do love stereotypes, they're great for a giggle.

You'd be surprised by some of the projects young'uns take part in these days! There's always some replication of old methods happening with a university somewhere.

a reply to: Akragon

That's like your opinion man.

I've personally witnessed 140 tonnes of boat be moved by one man using a block and tackle technique, it's an old method often used on a shipyard and it's 100% scalable with old techniques and equipment, things like rope, wood and a little bit of natural lubricant. Don't take my opinion though, look it up and the general principle of leverage. I've abseiled too, similar principal and rather simple math.

Nobody is sure exactly how a lot these structures were built, it doesn't mean it can't be replicated and as for precision do some homework because we frequently move heavier loads in a much more precise manner, yes we use technology as an aid but the maths and the principles are the same. Physics hasn't changed.

We've replicated ancient cutting techniques the biggest problem you'll find is that it takes a very long time just to be competent. Good look finding anyone willing to throw 20 years of their life away just to copy ancient building techniques, there's some but it's done out of love for the work and maintaining legacy, keeping authenticity in ancient works.

With modern machinery? Pardon the language but that's a piece of piss. We hit the true heights of masonry about 170 years ago, some say earlier.

they moved blocks easy enough that no one has found a squished guy yet.

there had to be an accident or 2 somewhere. rite?

2 million stones in a pyramid and not a finger or a toe, lost.?

good job OSHA! com on man, not 1 dick of a boss, felt wrath?

have they found any hard hats? anywhere? no?

ok. i'm not trying to be funny but, maybe a little. no cave drawings of construction or work disasters?

a lot of stuff i've seen were made for a later time like ours to be viewed. not for the people at the time. does that make any sense?

gravity nullifiers would be handy for moving. percussive hand tools i don't believe.

a reply to: RAY1990

170 years ago?

what has anyone made in the last 170 years that comes even close to the what ancient people have done with stone?

nothing...

You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that could replicate some of the stuff you can find out there

Ancient Architects
Uncharted X
Bright Insight

All good youtube resources on this subject.

There are clear tool marks and striations in bore holes (stone found in Egypt) pointing to ancient technology.

The Egyptians inherited the pyramids, just like we did. They scribed on the outside of precision cut boxes (see Serapeum of Saqqara), demonstrating the Egyptian era technology was not the same. Perfect boxes… imperfect scribed. Those were inherited too.

a reply to: Akragon

Something you may find interesting is there is evidence of megalithic structures in Nova Scotia ,Canada. And also throughout the New England states of the US. One particular weird thing is a wall that stretches for 100s of miles int he New England States.

a reply to: Akragon

We reached the literal heights of masonry then, there's little more to be done with stone without structural aids. Understand this then you'll understand why the ancients HAD to build with large stones.

Do you know why we stopped building with basic masonry around 170 years ago? Because it held us back, we had concrete and we just started perfecting smelting techniques. Compare east coast US masonry to West Coast masonry in regards to large projects and you'll see the difference... Want to know why there's such difference? The newer ones on the west coast or not just stone... There was a very famous world fair that illuminated our building prowess and the Egyptians had to use all that stone to acquire small rooms in a pyramid! Actually they're tiny in comparison.

I'm not doing your homework for you, it helps to have a basic grasp of construction because frankly it's ignorant of both past and present to say "we can't do that". We can, we have and we took it a little bit further to boot, in my opinion (and that of others) to the height of possibility.

originally posted by: BorelsMonkeys
Ancient Architects
Uncharted X
Bright Insight

All good youtube resources on this subject.

There are clear tool marks and striations in bore holes (stone found in Egypt) pointing to ancient technology.

The Egyptians inherited the pyramids, just like we did. They scribed on the outside of precision cut boxes (see Serapeum of Saqqara), demonstrating the Egyptian era technology was not the same. Perfect boxes… imperfect scribed. Those were inherited too.

my belief too.

originally posted by: cmdrkeenkid
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. I'm not doing your work for you. I look forward to your "long list of specific conditions that could never be met, even with todays technology."

I'll cut you a break though, just give me a handful and we'll call it good.

Yes, the burden of proof lay with whomever is making the claim. YOU made the claim that these ancient stone structures were made with flint and stone tools. Yet you have not proven it.

I gave you a link you did not address. I disproved your flint tool theory, which you also did not address. I led you to a GD&T material condition theory that you did not address.

You insist you will not do my work for me. You don't have to. However, as the creator of this thread it is your responsibility to perform due diligence, which includes investigating opposition to your own theory. Hence my statement that you can find examples just as easily as anyone else can. Look at Puma Punku. Some of the simple stonework can be explained with hammers and sanding stones. The really interesting stonework can not. Sharp interior angles for example. Even today we are limited in how sharp we can machine that intersection. Supposedly these people did it with a hammer and a stone chisel... Not likely.

The red sandstone and andesite stones were cut in such a precise way that they fit perfectly into and lock with each other without using mortar. The technical finesse and precision displayed in these stone blocks is astounding. Not even a razor blade can slide between the rocks.

No mortar.

The precision with which these angles have been utilized to create flush joints is indicative of a highly sophisticated knowledge of stone-cutting and a thorough understanding of descriptive geometry.

emphasis added
This is the GD&T I mentioned.

There is no explanation of how a culture that had no writing system and had not yet discovered the wheel could have created these structures. Science has shown that major discoveries are made in sequential linear advancements in an order of increasing technological development. In other words, you don't invent the automobile before the wheel.

Evolutionary theory falls apart if there are ancient advanced civilizations from millions of years ago. Can't allow evidence for that to exist.

a reply to: Akragon

And that block in your video is a pretty far cry from the blocks used in these structures

It's also on a smaller scale with a single person. The principal is the same. Scale it up, buddy.

I believe the stones were moved by sound vibration frequency . We can do it on a small scale also reminds me of the walls of Jericho .

When humans build things that big today, first you build wooden forms, pour your material in and then remove the forms when the material sets.

Are these natural stones or could that have been poured right where they are?