Fascism IS a leftist ideology!

originally posted by: DBCowboy
All republicans and non-left thinkers are now fascist!

That isn't what that means, although, I'm sure many feel that way.

Meh, not much anyone can do about that?

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: xuenchen
Why would anyone need to redefine it when Mussolini himself said it was right-wing.

He probably didn't feel right wing so didn't self identify that way.


That's the important part.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Well sh#t, if Mussolini said it then that's good enough for me. 

You bastard. I'm trying to wind down to sleep and you give me a belly laugh like that...

a reply to: strongfp

It says it "grew" not was born from !!!! 🤣🤣🤣

a reply to: daskakik

Of course he said that. Of course. 🤣🤣🤣

a reply to: xuenchen

Dumb. That whole weird essay is dumb too.

Victims often become sufferers of Stockholm Syndrome 😎

a reply to: Tulpa

He actually did, though.

a reply to: Joneselius

Star and flag if for no other reason than calling out Wilson and FDR. All of the mess in this country can be traced back to Wilson and FDR, and yet quite a few hold FDR in high regard, wonder why.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Tulpa

He actually did, though.

Strange as it may seem, I'd trust what he said slightly less then the OP.

a reply to: Tulpa
Well, the fascist party did promote conservative values so it wasn't just what he said.

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a reply to: Joneselius

The origin of the word "Fascism" is from an ultra-right-wing nationalist party in Italy that rose to power after 1915.

Fascism - Wikipedia

Also, many of the things you ascribe to Fascism are failings of extremists on the left and the right.

The methodology of ultra-nationalism is a constant and relentless classification of people as either 'us' or 'not us' and this usually shows an underlying racism and bigotry in those who are the most radicalized nationalists. Those who express their nationalism not with a positive and uplifting pride in achievement and a desire to share that, but rather in a constant and negative attempt to exclude anyone different have seemed to have missed the point that grants any sort of moral and ethical superiority.

America is great because of its ideals which many participated in which was sharing to others less fortunate than themselves. The mass immigrations feeding the growing economy of America, where it was generally percieved that anyone could, with diligence and effort, achieve.

Many far-right-wing nationalists, however, want to turn the country into a protected enclave of the privileged few. A fortified and suspicious state under a belligerent and uncompassionate rule.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: Joneselius

Along with ethnic minorities and the disabled, the Nazi's targeted socialists, communists, academics, artisans and trade unionists - all groups inherently leftists in their ideologies.

If the Nazi's were leftists, why would they start by eating their own?

In Germany at that time, the battle was between socialists and communists.

They both wanted the same thing.

The battle was for which party rose to power to achieve that.

The National Socialists won.

a reply to: Joneselius

Ahhh HMMMM,

Sorry but I don't agree.

Was William of Normandy a Communist, no and you would have to stretch it to claim he was a Fascist though he certainly had much in common with the Fuhrer and his cronies.

Seizing the means of production, Yes old Willy did that, he gave it all to his baron's.

I could go on and on and on and on and on and on, like that old Ariston advert as that is the way this daft debate will continue to be argued.

But here is the crux of it, Scholars have decided almost unanimously after WW2 that Fascism is ULTRA right wing.
Some new age scholar tries to argue that it is Left wing well he is entitled to his opinion but if he teaches that to Kid's he is in open dispute with men that were frankly far more intelligent than him.

Was Franco a Lefty, No he was not.

What about Mussolini?, no he was not.

And Hitler, he hated Commies, he used them but ever heard of the night of the long knives, study it and see how he purged the NAZI government of the left wing element's that had helped him to gain power and some right wing ones as well that he or other high ranking cronies of his rule felt threatened his or there position.

So no not commies, definitely right wing (in the current definition of right and left wing as it is not correct but).

Jesus was more left wing (EXCEPT THAT LEFT AND RIGHT IS SCREWED UP SINCE HE IS GODS RIGHT SO IT IS ACTUALLY THE REAL RIGHT WING AND THE BANKERS ARE THE REAL LEFT WING GET IT) and he is a KING, go and sell all you own and give it to the poor.
If you have two coats and your brother has non give him the one you are NOT using.
Build up your treasure in HEAVEN, not in a barn like the foolish man.

Ever hear of Ananias and Sapphira.
Look how early Christians lived.

5 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.

3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

5 When Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened. 6 Then some young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him.

7 About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter asked her, “Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?”

“Yes,” she said, “that is the price.”

9 Peter said to her, “How could you conspire to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen! The feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also.”

10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

That's right they did not call them communes but Marx was simply a Jewish man whom had lost his faith in God and craved social justice, many of his ideas were rooted in old testament (Torah) teaching's.

Did you know for example the old testament laid out a kind of early welfare state for the poor and lots of other things that inspired CHRISTIAN reformers whom have been tarred and feathered as LEFT wing when in fact Christ is seated at God's right hand so they are really RIGHT Wing.

AS for those fake Christians the ultra right wing one's, they are not without redeeming quality's but they do not realize they are actually heretical against the word of Christ and that goes right back to the first bishop to decide he could use the church to build a palace for himself and get some nice silk clothing as well as have his way with a few nun's.

Real Christ is KING and he is REAL Right Wing not political right wing, all those he saves are made son's of God, that is more than any banker will ever be and also far richer.

Fascists - scum, Commies, Godless idiots that end up living under tyrant's or being tyrant's and all there wealth ends up on the hands of the Party so it never actually ends up socialist when all is said and done just tyrannical and cruel (And they rob the poor as well - they don't give that wealth to the poor they give it to the party and the party OWN's the poor whom are then indentured servant's).

But hey whatever way you want to carve the cheese it's your plate you have to eat it.

a reply to: Lumenari

That's not at all what was happening.

Of importance:

Over the following years the brothers Otto and Gregor Strasser did much to grow the party by tying Hitler’s racist nationalism to socialist rhetoric that appealed to the suffering lower middle classes. In doing so, the Strassers also succeeded in expanding the Nazi reach beyond its traditional Bavarian base. By the late 1920s, however, with the German economy in free fall, Hitler had enlisted support from wealthy industrialists who sought to pursue avowedly anti-socialist policies...
Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month. That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished.

Fascism is dictatorial more than anything else.

Liberals are great at claiming they are all about freedom but what they mean is people are free to do exactly what liberals tell them to do - nothing more, nothing less.

Examples:
A conservative doesn't want a gun - he doesn't have one.
A liberal doesn't want a gun - he doesn't have one but you cant have one either.

A conservative believes in religious freedom so he prays when he feels like it and lets others do the same.
A liberal believes in religious freedom so anyone can pray unless they are Christian because that might offend a non-Christian - especially if there is an atheist around.

A conservative believes less government interference in daily life is a good thing.
A liberal believes government should control every facet of life down to the most minute and personal thing.

A conservative will accept the truth when it is genuine truth.
A liberal will accept truth only when it affirms their bias or agenda. Anything else is fake news and conspiracy.

Of those two ideologies which is more likely to result in a dictator? The answer is obvious, unless you are a liberal...

a reply to: Vroomfondel
Would you consider a monarchy dictatorial?

The whole left/right thing started in a national assembly in France during the revolution when those supporting the king sat on the right and those who wanted change sat on the left.

What to Know About the Origins of 'Left' and 'Right' in Politics, From the French Revolution to the 2020 Presidential Race

One of the main issues the assembly debated was how much power the king should have, says David A. Bell, a professor of early modern France at Princeton University. Would he have the right to an absolute veto? As the debate continued, those who thought the king should have an absolute veto sat on the right of the president of the assembly, and those who thought he should not — the more radical view — sat on the left of the president of the assembly. In other words, those who wanted to hew closer to tradition were on the right, and those who wanted more change were on the left.

Where do you think the FF of the US would have sat?

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Joneselius
We NEED to unite against this.

They way you came out blasting against one side in the OP detracts from your call for unity.

He's talking about the current regime in power, but he's absolutely right that too many at the levers or maneuvering for them don't want to limit it, they want to run it better.

You can't run a government that gets involved in everyone's everything and cause social unity. You just can't.

Limit it though so that it becomes a distant, disinterested party, and the pressure to have it conform to the whims of the people (my side/your side) lessens. You and I can be you and I again and likely live in pretty sweet harmony.

Reagan was correct when he said the scariest words in the English language are "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help." My personal corollary is when we all cry "There oughtta be a law!" Between the two government "helps" and we invite them in closer, and soon they become the uninvited busybody making us do things we'd rather not, and they aren't always benign about it.

And eventually, they get downright malignant.

a reply to: ketsuko
"Fascism is an ideology of the left" isn't just aimed at the current admin.