Fascism IS a leftist ideology!

a reply to: tanstaafl

Ever heard of the Palmer raids? It's just one example, but it's one that shows what length those in power went to when workers and unions, etc. got a little too 'organized'. Who threw down the iron fist in that situation? Can't let the 'mob' get too much power. Gotta put em down, put the oligarchs back in power, they know better than the common man.

Changing the ideology doesn't make you right, or me less wrong. You are blaming socialism as if it's a product of dictatorships and corrupt bureaucracy. It's the opposite. Socialism rises when there is dictatorships and corrupt bureaucracy. And those who go against it, are then put under this iron fist you speak of. The French and Russian revolution only happened because of monarchy clutching onto the last vestiges of feudalism.
The USSR went out with a rather faint whisper because of useless and not necessarily corrupt bureaucracy, but because it was redundant, and the dictator died. It's more complicated then just labeling something "left bad". The fundamentals of socialism are quite clear. Just as the fundamentals of conservatism are quite clear as well. Both have their ups and downs, both have lead to atrocities, and iron fist rule.

a reply to: Vroomfondel
And by current political conditions, I would guess that includes the skewed view of what left/right means?

That wasn't what I was going for. I was just pointing out that the skewed view exists and that it is what causes miscommunication.

Fascism is only right wing to communism. Both are authoritarian, thus left wing. Extreme right wing is true anarchy.

a reply to: ketsuko
War on drugs, anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, censorship of things like porn, music and even some books are just some things off the top of my head that some groups on the "right" have stood behind, which contradict your claim that those on the right are thinking like americans.

I’m not going to argue left or right. I just want to be left alone, and not taxed out of existence. Needless to say, I will be disappointed again.

Authoritarian is right wing - example: "Diaper-Donnie-daddy, uwu!!!!". That is authorianism.

Fascism is right wing. example: Hitler hated communism. Hitler was one of the embodiments of fascism. Mussolini hated communists, too.

To say that those are left wing lacks reason, examples, evidences and proof. Its just a feeling. Feeling do not count in real discussion.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

The left claim that their ideology is based on 'collective individual efforts', but it is a bald faced lie. It is based on the iron fist of imposed solidarity - or else.

But, as has already been pointed out several times, "the iron fist of imposed solidarity", in other words 'authoritarianism', or 'totalitarianism', is a feature of avowedly left and right wing political regimes.

Your opinion also betrays a right wing bias. The National Health Service which Brits are unanimously grateful for (more so than ever, during this crisis), was built and maintained on the "collective individual efforts of the common people" (tax payers). Its conception can be traced to a socialist (Beatrice Webb), and its post-war implementation to a Labour government with socialist policies and ideologies more left-leaning than those of Bernie Sanders.

Britain having just played a leading role in defeating the most notorious fascist regime in history, according to the OP's thesis, followed up by electing a fascist government!

Labelling Clement Attlee's Labour government of the 1940s 'fascist' is just comically confused. Muslims 'submit to the will of God'. So does the Pope. Voila! The Pope's a Muslim.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

China and North Korea are left-wing totalitarianism. Totalitarianism and authoritarianism do not belong to this or that end of the spectrum.

originally posted by: Joneselius
a reply to: TzarChasm

Don't know what you're talking about, are you insinuating that I'm somehow a supporter of Trump? Why are you being so vague?

Just say what you're thinking. Man..... Like getting blood from a stone.

And no, I wasn't happy with Trump at all, I saw him the same way I see Biden. A tool, being used to foment change for their overlords. The difference was, Trump rarely claimed virtue on the basis that he was simply doing something! Biden is, and he's also managing to enact all the EO's that will allow the rise of fascism in America. Everyone seems to be under the illusion that this can't happen, and it will!

What I'm thinking is that you don't know what fascism means, and you're using it as a derogatory label to attack a system that is now treating you the way tens of thousands were treated before you. You didn't defend them, but now we should defend you because it's in your backyard.

I'm starting to feel a little oppressed by all this rigid clinging to definitions

I mean, it's the current year!
For quite some time we have seen a certain contingent doing their best to rewrite or obliterate history for their own benefit.
They've also redefined plenty of words to benefit their narrative.

Free speech or honesty has been redefined as "hate speech"
Criticism has been redefined as "incitement".
Questioning things has been redefined as "threatening behaviour"
Men and women have been redefined as "knock yourself out".

I'm not sure that those people were right wing.

So lighten up. Get with the current year. Up can be down and left can be right.

....unless you're some kind of fascist or something.

originally posted by: CitizenZero
a reply to: ManFromEurope

China and North Korea are left-wing totalitarianism. Totalitarianism and authoritarianism do not belong to this or that end of the spectrum.

That was what I was trying to say earlier on.

The totalitarian tiptoe is obvious. The guise of left or right is irrelevant.

originally posted by: EvilAxis

originally posted by: tanstaafl

The left claim that their ideology is based on 'collective individual efforts', but it is a bald faced lie. It is based on the iron fist of imposed solidarity - or else.

But, as has already been pointed out several times, "the iron fist of imposed solidarity", in other words 'authoritarianism', or 'totalitarianism', is a feature of avowedly left and right wing political regimes.

Yup. Authoritarianism appears in both left and right wing politics, as does libertarianism.

Left wing and right wing are on the horizontal (x) axis and libertarianism to authoritarianism lie on the vertical (y) axis. The bible belt and evangelics are examples of authoritarian right-wing politics. Cancel cullture is an example of left-wing authoritarianism.
l
Reaganism was extreme right-wing authoritarianism while Marxism is extreme left wing libertarianism. Stalinism was extreme left wing authii=tarin/totalitarianism.

a reply to: willzilla

Wow I tried to relate the same idea as you and it took me like 5 paragraphs to do. Kudos for your digital conservation.

a reply to: Wide-Eyes

That's why I think it best to oppose all totalitarianism rather than just left or right-wing. In fact we should abandon that spectrum for one that contains a path towards freedom, something shaped like a triangle.

a reply to: CitizenZero

 something shaped like a triangle.

Nice metaphor.

a reply to: Veryolduser

Most religious schools of thought have a leaning toward collectivism. Judaism is no more immune to it than Christianity is. In case you hadn't noticed, there is a concerted push toward making people think that Uncle Joe is the most Catholic Catholic who ever Catholiced and Liberation Theology is a Christian school of thought that is decidedly collectivist in nature.

a reply to: Veryolduser

Please stay off 4chan, and don't bring /pol/ history here.

The Marx family, because of the father, made sure all ties to their Jewish ideas and lineage didn't pass within' his family. And Karl Marx was homeschooled, then was sent to law schools. His entire social circle was also full of anarchists, philosophy students and Christian theologians using German dialectics to hash out complex questions.

And to address why the Bolsheviks banned hating Jews, that's because antisemitism was literally legal and encouraged in Russia and most of eastern Europe! Of course they'd ban that.

Pale of Settlement

I don't think people realize how much hatred the Jewish population received in Europe. And most of them were dirt poor.

a reply to: strongfp

No, the main reason that the Holocaust could happen was because of that ancient hatred.

It was there festering under the surface and made the Jews easy scapegoats to finger for everything going wrong in Germany ... just like had been done time after time before.

Projection thread is projecting.