Final Conclusions Regarding UFOs

originally posted by: Phage

So, because he outlawed religion and stuff and had people killed, religion is good?

I don't follow.

I'm saying the total lack of religion opens up the door for some extremely evil crap.

I guess my point is that religion at the base fundamentals are basically good morals though we can debate that there are parts not seen today as good, but they were a lot better than what was when they were established. So when we deviate from our normal moral compass religion has help us to correct back on track even when the religion might have played into the deviation in the first place when it is used as tool for personal gains. Even when this happens you still have that bedrock of fundamentals to go back to.

When you look at societies that remove it all they drift off the moral compass and just keep drifting into really heinous territory with no compass to get them back on course.

You can agree or not, but whether you follow Kent, Locke or most main stream religions they all are based on good philosophies at a certain level. So in the case of Pol Pot he outlawed religion and didn't say hey lets replace it with Kant...lol When you look at Stalin, Mao...others they outlaw religion with no replacement and the sh!t hits the fan real quick. I'm not saying religion is the best, be all thing to use, it is what we mainly got though, and humans need something.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Xtrozero

don't argue with me when I'm 100% agreeing with you please.

I 100% concur, did with every single post, that we cannot separate religion
from fantasy from genius.

For Pete's sake (who is Pete?) I have an entire post on this topic from last week.

Well at least we are not flinging poo... lol

a reply to: Xtrozero

Some day, cybernetic obedience brain implants will take over for religion or some other system.

That's why I'm not keen on writing about 'spirituality'.

it would be pointless.

Or as I've written elsewhere, in the grand analog/digital war, 'Digital" is about to win.

No amount of navel gazing can prevent it.

Ufology is going in a circle and always returns to its original form, which is not knowing.

We know as much as we did in 1947 as we know now. That should tell us something.

Maybe the future holds some great revelation about it but right now, not knowing is the reality. When folks try to know before they really know, then expect folly.

Unlike religion, gratefully, where the pretenders of knowledge end up murdering many not of their cult at least, so far, save a few suicidal UFO cults, no significant violence has occurred that I know of because of a premature “ knowers” of what is the nature of ufos.

Though frustrating, Its nothing wrong with not knowing. We have to learn to accept it.

And indeed, that’s where faith comes in. One can believe anything, that’s fine, and offer one’s “ “proofs” as they see it as long as they understand it’s just your opinion and others have a right to their own and a right to critique yours.


Claiming to know when one doesn’t really know always leads to some level of misery.

a reply to: Willtell

Of course.

Nothing can be proven.

Not just 'UFOs', but in general.

Not a damn thing.

So we muddle along as best we can.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The question is, do we muddle along in the mud, sky, or in-between?

Then we have to determine what is between the mud and the sky

Water

Let me stretch out a bit...

I've always thought the sky or "heaven" is a metaphor for thought or lofty thought. Like philosophical or scientific inner dissertations not like mundane, what will I have for diner tonight?

The mud would be a symbol for dense thinking: I know the truth or dogma through programming( brainwashing).

In between is the suppleness of the flowing water where one's thoughts are susceptible to change based on empirical and objective data, not over imagination, wishful thinking, or dogma.


Not easy to obtain that state( watery) of objectivity which may be the key to real knowledge...in any field.

a reply to: Willtell

My friend... that was your best post ever.

And as it happens, it perfectly matches my ATS sig line, that says the same thing.

Great minds must think alike!

originally posted by: Willtell
Ufology is going in a circle and always returns to its original form, which is not knowing.

We know as much as we did in 1947 as we know now. That should tell us something.

All we have learned since 1947 is that UFOs seem to come in all shapes and sizes, but it's also useful to remember that 'saucers' and 'black triangles' pre-date Kenneth Arnold and 1970s stealth tech by decades (our Karl's threads on the topic are well worth a read), making the infamous misreporting of Arnold's words a moot point.

What hasn't changed is the automatic smirk generated by the writers and presenters of mainstream media, which has always confused me since I was a kid when 'Close Encounters Of The Third Kind' was making the rounds; in fact, I didn't think ET visitation was a big deal, no different to meeting someone from say Iceland or Ukraine. "So what?" I thought, which is ironic since I soon became as hardened a sceptic as the media itself. It was only my wife's UFO experience that prompted me to peruse the topic again. I've softened my stance, but even my better half now uses the aforementioned "So what?" attitude. Which is a refreshingly open-minded take on our topic, just not accompanied by research or any interest in proving such visitations are Real. Indeed, "So what?" kind of tramples over our favourite hobby and all our fevered work and speculation, but at least it's devoid of the media's smirk!

I've never seen a UFO (by whatever popular notion the term implies), not even something in the sky that required identification per se. Away from the skies, though (and at the risk of repeating myself yet again), I have experienced a 'ghost/poltergeist' in Dec 1995 at my wife's parents' Cornish home in West Looe, which ironically also hosted far stranger activities (including UFOs overhead, but nothing to do with my wife's UFO event which was in a different county many years before) over many years, but I was only lucky enough to witness a poltergeist event: our closed bedroom being 'punched open' in an empty house on a still night, followed by the bizarre sounds of footsteps around us and the subsequent sound of drawers being opened... although not physically opened like the door. I was fascinated! My wife not so much; she was petrified.

I would have immediately explained it as a freak wind, interesting local EMF effects, or perhaps trapped old sound recordings within the walls (or suchlike)... until her family revealed the stuff I hadn't experienced: billowing black mists racing across rooms; the walls being violently and loudly thumped (sometimes for 5 or 10 minutes at a time, scary enough for my mum-in-law to leave the house entirely); a large black dog witnessed by a few people; my dad-in-law's bed literally shaking up and down (he was an ex hardened East End boxer, and never felt fear as he did then); and strangest of all: a pair of fiery red eyes that manifested in mid-air. Oh, and 'orange saucers' were regularly seen in the sky.

Cool stuff, huh? However, I can't speak for the other events; I can't prove they were even true accounts, but at least I had my own small-scale event that December day. We only visited that particular house for 8 months before the in-laws moved home, but on our last visit my wife's Uncle was also staying there. We met him at breakfast one morning when he was shaking like a leaf, mentioning how he'd seen that "large black dog" next to his bed...

All the above, though, emphasises the underlying element of ufology and the paranormal as one giant Mystery game. We are all Sherlocks enjoying a grand quest of discovery and associated theoretical musings.

Even if, as Phage stated, everything probably boils down to a very Earthly explanation in the end, hey, we had some fun in the meantime!



PS: Tonight, Jupiter and Saturn will be in a conjunction that allegedly created the 'Star Of Bethlehem' for the first time in 800 years, so expect a plethora of UFO reports, too!

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Even if, as Phage stated, everything probably boils down to a very Earthly explanation in the end, hey, we had some fun in the meantime!

Critical thinking is fun. Big fun.

It's all about the journey, right?

a reply to: Phage

That's what they say on Star Trek Voyager, my favorite Star Trek!

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

My least favorite.

So there.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

Quite a story!

our closed bedroom being 'punched open''

Are you saying the door slammed open for no apparent reason on an absolutely still night?

A lot of folks think that there are no 'UFOs' that it's all 'poltergeist phenomenon'.

Of course that's attempting to prove one 'ridiculous things' with yet another 'ridiculous thing'.

BTW... I always ask this of Brits..

Any stories in your family about the "little people"?

Thanks for sharing.

a reply to: Phage

I know... everyone hates Voyager except me.

Even my favorite Star Trek podcaster Steve Shives hates Voyager.

But I forgive you.. at least you like ST in some form.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: Phage

That's what they say on Star Trek Voyager, my favorite Star Trek!

Never had you pinned down as a Trekkie, Kev! But please tell me you have little love for Season 3 (1968-9) of the Original Series. A new, hot-headed and shallow exec producer wrecked that show before turning his hand to also ruining a show from Britain, Season 2 (1976) of 'Space 1999', which was once a thoughtful, cerebral exercise during its first year.

Season 1 of Trek (1966-7) is top-notch, but I can't speak for the endless spin-offs since the 1980s; never watched them, although the movies were usually good fun.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

Or as I've written elsewhere, in the grand analog/digital war, 'Digital" is about to win.

No amount of navel gazing can prevent it.

We will just have digital religion, no way to avoid it... I can't tell you how it will look like or what it is about, but it will always be there.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

PS: Tonight, Jupiter and Saturn will be in a conjunction that allegedly created the 'Star Of Bethlehem' for the first time in 800 years, so expect a plethora of UFO reports, too!

To bad I live in the freaking NW...lol

a reply to: Xtrozero

We will just have digital religion,

Couple versions of that in Trek.

This one isn't Trek.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

I didn't like most of ST TOS. Just a few episodes.

Did you know, my friend, that Gene Roddenberry was a 'channeler'
for the 9 ?

Or so I heard recently.. I haven't double checked it yet!

a reply to: Xtrozero

I've been watching the dance for a few weeks.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Frankly?

i think that any naturally evolved civilization, if it gets enough technology, will almost inevitably evolve itself with machinery.

I've always thought, since i was little, that our Universe, if it has other sentient life, is probably dominated by non-organic, non-naturally evolved life.

Could be wrong.

I've had a few very interesting 'experiences' that convinced me of that POV, tentative to rigorous examination, which of course is probably not possible at this time.