Final Conclusions Regarding UFOs

a reply to: Xtrozero

So that's where everybody is?
They ain't no more?

(See: Fermi)

originally posted by: Phage

So that's where everybody is?
They ain't no more?

(See: Fermi)

I think it is easy to explain Fermi paradox. Life can be all over the place, but that doesn't mean intelligent, physically able, space faring lifeforms would also be all over the place.

Earth is kind of special in it allows evolution to advance into higher forms of species. We kind of know it doesn't take that long maybe a few 100 million years once the cycle is finally started. Snow ball earth showed us what happens once O2 is finally at the right level after billions of years slowly building it up. Frozen earth and then a massive explosion of life once it unfroze.

But hell the universe as we know it is about 9 billion years old with normal suns and planets. The first 5 billion it was just building turning lead into gold and 90+ other elements lol..So in that 9 billion years it took earth 4.5 billion years to make a species that could go to its moon. I think we can say that is rare...lol

There are a lot of IFs with earth when we think about lifeforms here...If it wasn't in the right spot, if it didn't have a liquid core, if it didn't have a big old moon, if Jupiter and Saturn were not the vacuums of the solar system, hell if the dinosaurs were not killed off. Even the idea of life past simple life forms could be extremely rare event.

I think we won the biggest Powerball in evolutionary history...lol I don't think there are a lot of other Powerball winners out there even though I believe life is everywhere in some form.

Then we have this whole how does advance life evolve once it takes over from evolution. Is high intelligence even a good trait that doesn't just kill itself off after a while. Unless we go all Star Trek and worry about finishing a show with commercials in 60 mins million of years of space travel much less 1000s of years is a no can do for life. Space is just too damn big...

a reply to: Xtrozero

Only if you believe that the thing we have now is anything of significant importance. This whole advancement everybody seems to be so proud of, digital cameras and everything...Could in the scope of things. Be just a fad. No more important the the boy bands of the 90s, and there popularity.

Also what about the phrase. "There is nothing new under the sun" do people not understand. That was direct quote from the bible which was just a downplay by word of mouth and writing from an older texts which themselfs were from older texts, which may or may not have been atributed to a man who lived long ago, and supposedly walked with god.

That means that yes. All the crap you see today that everybody is so proud of, has happened countless times before. For all you know there is nothing overall special about any of it. At all.

But even going by the whole conspiracy thing. What didn't even Bob Lazar say that at least one of the UFO's they found was from an archaeological dig, in sediment which was at least a few hundreds of thousands of years old. So! Who knows, maybe anti gravity flight was something that was invented some hundreds of thousands of years ago, if not millions of years ago.

And we just now discovered how the whole wireless effect that the ships are connected work. Wifi...Eh.

I would not worry about UFOs and aliens if I were you all. Considering that a fake virus just shut down this whole civilization. Well? You are so far from any of that and space travel or other dimensions and all of it, that you may as well be a duck trying to contemplate how a TV works, or a jet engine.

UFOs mean absolutely nothing. The believe in UFOs mean absolutely nothing. And well? People are not exactly all that hard to fool now are they. The believe of peoples and nations or governments. Mean absolutely nothing.

UFOs like everything else. Are just a fad.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I think it is easy to explain Fermi paradox. Life can be all over the place, but that doesn't mean intelligent, physically able, space faring lifeforms would also be all over the place.

Say no more.

Oh, you did.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Nothing paradoxical about the fermi paradox as you say.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Yup. Die out or engineer themselves not to be fragile. One or the other.

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird

Also what about the phrase. "There is nothing new under the sun" do people not understand. That was direct quote from the bible which was just a downplay by word of mouth and writing from an older texts which themselfs were from older texts, which may or may not have been atributed to a man who lived long ago, and supposedly walked with god.

That means that yes. All the crap you see today that everybody is so proud of, has happened countless times before. For all you know there is nothing overall special about any of it. At all.

Well it needed to start somewhere right? Also there are limits to our universe such as time, so countless is not a good term. When you say long ago what does that mean... A million years ago and man wasn't man. Its one of those issues with species that they are always changing. That is why there are 360,000 species of beetles as example.

But even going by the whole conspiracy thing. What didn't even Bob Lazar say that at least one of the UFO's they found was from an archaeological dig, in sediment which was at least a few hundreds of thousands of years old. So! Who knows, maybe anti gravity flight was something that was invented some hundreds of thousands of years ago, if not millions of years ago.

Not from humans... Only we have gone to the moon and that is one place that we could see billion year-old marks. If there was a species before us that were highly intelligent they wouldn't have been human in anyway, as almost all life you see today came about from simple life about 600 million years ago. The models for life we see are not set, they are just how life went within our window of time. Also O2 in the atmosphere started about 2.3 billion years ago, so add 500 million years to that and you have about 1.8 billion year window for what you might be talking about.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Only we have gone to the moon and that is one place that we could see billion year-old marks.

We have not yet excavated Clavius.

originally posted by: Phage

We have not yet excavated Clavius.

True...I hear this music now......

a reply to: Xtrozero

I think you all have gone to a whole lot less places then you think you have.

But hey! Whatever.

What we might be neglecting regarding the Ufo phenomena is something JV mentioned in a roundabout way.
And that is ourselves. What the phenomena does to our thinking.
If anything.

And on a higher level. Is it designed to be a metaphor for the search for inner truth?
Taking Valles subjective analysis of a social response loop.

Obviously, the source has something in mind and not just one thing since reality is multifaceted like a kaleidoscope.

The phenomenon is doing things on many levels we don't perceive and understand and some we do perceive and understand.

What I'm saying is, we need to look at ourselves

a reply to: Willtell

Yup.

Most people fall prey to 'us vs. them thinking'.

It's more like us vs. us to some degree.

Kev

Impresionistically or imaginatively, the alien ufo story impacts us all who venture into any degree of serious thought about it. Going beyond the movies we see, and into the impressionistic area and imaginative area of your mind might be impactful.

For example, in my own impressionistic feelings, which BTW is subjective, I see this phenomenon as something wild, unpredictable. Or Maybe a self-conscious element operating on the premise as we do towards our own children.


"Sure the tooth fairy is coming tonight and Santa Clause tomorrow."


"YOU HUMANS MUST STOP MAKING BOMBS AND KILLING EACH OTHER"

Knowing full well we can't do that ...well, easily at least. Nor will we do that!


You see my point. So whatever it's doing it's doing it indirectly.


Just like we're not really giving our children money under a pillow from the tooth fairy for the reasons the kids think we are.

Nor are we doing Santa clause for the reasons kids think we are.

a reply to: Willtell

There seems to be a strong dream-like element that is not often discussed.

We seem to be part of the dream.

I would like to ask Kev's opinion about Astro boy story - explanation of the UFO phenomenon

With Respect,

D.

Man this thread makes me miss the ATS I used to love so much before it became an echo chamber for political nonsense.

Great thread and very well written.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Ok let’s chime in although my mind is a bit all over the place about this.

Regarding this I think the overfitted brain hypothesis provides a very interesting viewpoint where dreams help us with generalization.

Generalization is the concept that humans and other animals use past learning in present situations of learning if the conditions in the situations are regarded as similar.

I always thought of “phenomenon” as some sort of buffer overflow or perhaps even void like nullpointer thing (pardon my IT), but this could provide a different viewpoint.

The thing I’m struggling with comes from what we are doing with all of this data (cf. dream like element), because that’s what it basically is (everything is information). Whether it’s an overflow/mismatch/does-not-compute of something we do not understand or it’s tossable/noise information on a more individual level, we are giving it a second life beyond it’s purpose.

We are sharing it (writing, video’s etc.) and thus feeding it back into the system (cf. us) and I’m not sure whether that’s “the right thing to do”.

All very interesting and I would love to see some other viewpoints regarding this.

a reply to: X5452DT

I talked to Astro in private DM's around the time of his 'run' on ATS.

Rather than just 'throw baby out with bathwater', I will say that one of his fever dreams may actually have a bit of truth to it. His (I forget the exact terms of his 'fever') ships that harvest dreams --- that was actually 'correct' IMHO, in a loose sense,
but not the way he promoted it, not even close.

I researched the Astro memes for a while.. I followed one through the dark web back to a Russian UFO messiah figure.
I followed part of it back to armageddon.co.uk.

I saw various threads of his story which had pre-existed in various extremely similar forms in other 'dark places'
that were being used an psychological control mechanisms.

Now the 'Astro told me about a UFO ahead of time and then I saw it' schtick was MASTERFULLY done, and it infected a friend of mine. It infected various people.

I don't wish to elaborate on that; it might get me in trouble.

But in short... a mixture of some scared kid living in this mother's basement (sort of thing) plus one dash of actual
'psychic ability' so to speak, threads of an operation heading deep into the dark web, and yes, the USG too!

A complete crap-fest of things to ignore.

That's my experience with the matter.

Kev

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

I have had 31 years of IT, after I did my 7 years as as nuclear engineer, you are talking my language!

and please keep contributing. you don't contribute enough for my liking.

You want to hear my 'penultimate observation'?

Its not what people want to hear or believe.

In many ways, we are the HARDWARE, not the SOFTWARE.

The 'dream subsystem' of the 'universe' runs on us.

There you go.

Now, I know that everyone wants to be the 'immortal software' (the soul/spirit, etc).

Sorry.

Doesn't work like that really.

It's not that cut and dried.. there ARE 'software-like' aspects to us too..

but the predominant part of us is the 'hardware'. That's the part of us that 'the other'
cares about.

SOMEBODY has to unclog the clogged toilets and such..

and that be US.

I know it's not sexy, flashy, or 'humans are god' and the 'center of the universe' sort of thing that people want to believe.

Now again, there's a bit (a small bit) of 'truth' to that sort of thinking.. but it's a small bit.

But overall, it's much more grounding to focus on our major function in all of this.

There you go.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I don't mind being an hardware. Better than Nothing for the least.

Well, any hardware is a "centerpiece" to the system it composes. In any case, I take it you don't cut the harware part and the software part as body and mind. My first guess is that software somewhat refers to the ability to assume.
But as a second guess, software could refer to "group mind". Such seem less "hardware like" than "individual mind".

In the case of Astro... you crushed my fantasies; I was putting "faith" in his story.