It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Final Conclusions Regarding UFOs

page: 11
<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in


posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 04:02 PM
a reply to: IgnorantGod

Well, hardware and software are somewhat relative.

In Hindu mysticism, do you understand the meaning of Kali sitting on the chest of Siva in the charnel house?

For me at least, that's one of the most astonishing and revelatory images in all of human history.

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 05:15 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

No, I'm mostly ignorant on Hindu mysticism. Do you have any media to recommend for the subject of interest?

I've went and read a bit on Wikipedia and britanica, I got that Kali is mainly depicted in Shaktism. But when it comes to religions, I feel there's a part of the story that's missing on websites such as Wiki. Mainly contexts, but also precisions.

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 06:26 PM
a reply to: IgnorantGod

I'm hardly a classical Tantric scholar. I studied a lot of it for years, looking for cookie crumbs in biology and physics.

But suffice it to say, the 'Divine Female' is considered structure, matter and energy and in this case TIME.

Time holds consciousness ('shiva') prisoner. PS: Frankly it's technically 'pure awareness' or even 'the potential of pure awareness'
or 'the unexpressed potential of pure awareness' or even "the level before platonic idealism' but let's call it 'consciousness'
which is technically inaccurate, but for a westerner we have to make some liberalizations.

That's why 'Kundalini' is a 'left hand path'. Left hands paths all involve the human body and things like the human 'ego'.

Now right hand paths are full of silly lies for the most part, and some useful purification material.

Running around as a 'Right Hand Path person' you keep going "love - consciousness - God - give hugs - don't worry about anything being true or false" - just turn off your brain and 'serve god'.

Frankly both paths are ill-advised. But there is a sweet spot.

But if you are going to be delusional, at least the left hand path is more real than not real.

It's rather like (to use Siva/Shaiti language Tantric language),

that 'Shakti (the 'divine' female energy) through the power of illusion and deception,

holds "Siva (or Shiva)" 'pure consciousness' prisoner.

and it's true.

The sum total of all that exists is seen through the lens of limited beings trapped in time.

It's just how it is.

But apparently 'Siva' enjoys 'Shakti' riding on top of him, as 'He' should.

I did butcher Tantric and Yogic theology, but only a little. Squeezing out the BS is the most
important part IMHO.

I hope that was helpful.

edit on 22-12-2020 by KellyPrettyBear because: fine point about 'pure awareness' not strictly 'consciousness' but good enough for government work.

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 07:06 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Thank you. I understand why you said "revelatory".

That is, from the perspective of your last post, I did "lift the veil"; not entirely, but enough to go insane and beg for death.

Your posts have been really helpful in the process to further examine this experience of mine I had, and the following nihilism I "fell into".

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 07:21 PM
a reply to: IgnorantGod

I went through a very dark time after I experienced what i call 'soul death and dismemberment'.

I had nobody to guide me.

So I understand.

It was a bit unsettling, to realize that 'the highest truth' is that 'god' is full-time
busy in 'hiding from the truth' (fracturing parts of him/herself in time) so as to
avoid the infinite loneliness of being the only being that exists.

All this pain and delusion is not something to be evolved away from..
it's the entire point.

There is no escaping to some ascended realm (at least not for long); there's only
the everchanging spectacle of being an everchanging part of the whole, that
makes a 100% effort to experience everything, but to keep things just as they are.

Learning to swim, without any distant shore to 'swim toward'.

Being comfortable with that.

It's not Nihilism; not at all.

Each step of the journey is 'knowable' and 'discernable'.

Love and learning and laughter infinitely available.

But the goal is not 'capture the flag'.

The goal is becoming an expert at not NEEDING to 'capture the flag'.

Yes, you are the ocean.. for all it matters.

But there's no gold stars or vacation homes for achievements.. there
are no real achievements, other than those you assign to yourself.

I hope that made sense.
edit on 22-12-2020 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 07:36 PM
Thank you for the valuable and articulate peek into your core belief system!

You recently became one of my favorite posters to follow but you have always been a bit cagy about your primary convictions. You seem to like to dance around it without revealing much. Or maybe I just haven't known you long enough to realize you've done so elsewhere.

At any rate I feel like I see where you are coming from a lot better. Frankly speaking I like this perspective a great deal, despite being a rather woodenly humorless orthodox Mahayana Buddhist.

The intersection of the USG and research into "occult matters" fascinates me. I always was drawn to the theory that this goes back to the Oxford Roundtable Society and collaboration between british mystically inclined gentlemen-spooks like Huxley and their US Eastern Boarding School and Ivy League equivalents. The idea, for example, that the Hippy movement was created via injection of chemicals and "mystical sensibility" into pop culture to derail the more straight-edged anti-war movement. Despite their anti-war image, the hippies were too spaced-out and drawn to inner pursuits to be serious anti-war advocates, like the neatly dressed coat-and-tie leftists of the early 60s. The hippie movement was in truth apolitical and hedonistic.

The shift of the youth from a credible threat to the war economy into a disorganized, medicated mess of long-haired freaks was accomplished by a mass application of occult programming for "superficial Mysticism." The ability to do this to the youth culture stemmed from elite anglo-American investigations into esoteric and occult matters starting back in the 1930s .

Or so the theory goes....
edit on 22-12-2020 by Never Despise because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 09:01 PM
Fascinating....and yes, thanks for sharing your perspective and experiences

What if it is all just a simulation? Does that defeat purpose? Should we just enjoy the ride? That is kind of how I see things personally at this point in my life. I maintain that connection to child-like wonderment and take in the awe and glory of this natural world. I too wish we would strive more to preserve and share in life rather than be in dominion over it. I see this realm as a playground to play and learn in as well as share. I don't see how after watching stuff like "Blue Planet" how we can not stop for a minute and question what we are doing. Ahh the ole jobs and growth thing I suppose..

Now if we could just get that 'replicator' going to free us up from obtaining our basic needs , to cultivate more worthy endeavors and perhaps a creative class.

Love Voyager by the way, even before 7 of 9 drew forth such libidinous fervor..hubbahubba!
Found species 8472 intriguing, and like the idea of a biological derived/connected craft. I wonder at times if our 'natural' evolution got hijacked by technology somewhere along the way, steering us away from potentially exceptional biological abilities over time and if this "hijacking" was natural or intended? Digital/Analogue? One in the same?

Pardon the digressions, it's how my tangential mind works, but that's okay, exclusive linear thinking can be so boring and limiting at times.

AND on that note...Foundation

edit on 2pmf31115831 by waftist because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 09:30 PM
a reply to: Never Despise

I certainly have been 'cagey' from time to time.

I still won't reveal anything truly dangerous.

And yes, it's my 'belief system' if you want to put it that way (conclusions based upon research and direct, bone-breaking experience, not ephemeral fluff), but yes, it's a 'belief system'.

The thing is, if I'm wrong (and I am -- Godel's Incompleteness Theorem proves everything is 'wrong' and ultimately unknowable), why would I be bothered?

And that is the real point --- learning to swim, without needing a shore -- the entire point,

and the reward? There is one.

You gain the ability to fixate on things that really matter,

not just your hypothetical or non-hypothetical existence or lack thereof.

It's called freedom.

Or in some traditions, "Enlightenment".

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 09:39 PM

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: IgnorantGod

It was a bit unsettling, to realize that 'the highest truth' is that 'god' is full-time
busy in 'hiding from the truth' (fracturing parts of him/herself in time) so as to
avoid the infinite loneliness of being the only being that exists.

All this pain and delusion is not something to be evolved away from..
it's the entire point.

There is no escaping to some ascended realm (at least not for long); there's only
the everchanging spectacle of being an everchanging part of the whole, that
makes a 100% effort to experience everything, but to keep things just as they are.

Working within the framework of reality being "God playing hide-and-seek with fractured pieces of Himself," let me probe a few points.

I once arrived at this possibility myself (as have others), but rather than "out of loneliness" my image was of a gentler "out of boredom" or even "as a fun game to pass the time." So I don't see the "hidden whole" necessarily as a wounded, lonely creature but perhaps as a more confident paddler int in the sheer oceanic joy of infinite possibilities.

What if "all this" is just a temporary game and the Supreme Being withdraws again back into a oneness that is not lonely but is restful?

You see, if the Supreme Being is lonely that means it has a problem. A problem is a deviation from an ideal state. I posit there is an ideal state of oneness where any lonliness is overcome through self-knowledge.

Because if at the fundamental level "it" is truly all alone, that means there is no reason to feel lonliness because there is no possible ontological schema involving another being.

If it "misses" or "longs for" an "other", it is not properly understanding its true nature as "the fundamental only." That misunderstanding means there is still work to do...still dust to be wiped from the mirror, still a division between an illusory self and an "other," even if the "other" is understood as non-existent.

The deepest state of oneness would wipe away all concerns because it would entail the knowledge that not only is there no "other," there never was and never could be, and thus there is nothing to miss or feel dissatisfied.

The desire for an "other" and the resulting split into Innumerable seperate beings is based on an inattentiveness to the true nature and meaning of what it is to be a lone supreme being -- it is to be a whole, perfectly at peace, neither ecstatic nor depressed. This is the true nature of the One, and this true nature calls it back from it's games to wholeness and ultimate perfection in a variety of ways.

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 09:39 PM
a reply to: waftist

A man after my own heart.

I loved Voyager both pre and post beautiful 'borg with 'IMPLANTS' *cough*)

I loved foundation.

Have you read "The End of Eternity" - the most thought provoking science fiction Novella in the entire world!

As for simulations --- what's the difference between a perfect simulation and 'reality' - functionally? Nothing at all my friend... so functionally? It's better to assume everything is a simulation and learn to swim without seeking a shore.

Also, have you caught this?

(probably the most profound thing outside of 'yoga' that I've ever encountered)

from The Magus by John Fowles

Once upon a time there was a young prince, who believed in all things but three. He did not believe in princesses, he did not believe in islands, he did not believe in God. His father, the king, told him that such things did not exist. As there were no princesses or islands in his father's domaines, and no sign of God, the young prince believed his father.

But then, one day, the prince ran away from his palace. He came to the next land. There, to his astonishment, from every coast he saw islands, and on these islands, strange and troubling creatures whom he dared not name. As he was searching for a boat, a man in full evening dress approached him along the shore.

"Are those real islands?" asked the young prince.

"Of course they are real islands," said the man in evening dress.

"And those strange and troubling creatures?"

"They are all genuine and authentic princesses."

"Then God also must exist!" cried the prince.

"I am God," replied the man in full evening dress, with a bow.

The young prince returned home as quickly as he could.

"So you are back," said his father, the king.

"I have seen islands, I have seen princesses, I have seen God," said the prince reproachfully.

The king was unmoved. "Neither real islands, nor real princesses, nor a real God, exist."

"I saw them!"

"Tell me how God was dressed."

"God was in full evening dress."

"Were the sleeves of his coat rolled back?"

The prince remembered that they had been. The king smiled. "That is the uniform of a magician. You have been deceived."

At this, the prince returned to the next land, and went to the same shore, where once again he came upon the man in full evening dress. "My father the king has told me who you are," said the young prince indignantly. "You deceived me last time, but not again. Now I know that those are not real islands and real princesses, because you are a magician."

The man on the shore smiled. "It is you who are deceived, my boy. In your father's kingdom there are many islands and many princesses. But you are under your father’s spell, so you cannot see them."

The prince returned pensively home. When he saw his father, he looked him in the eyes. "Father, is it true that you are not a real king, but only a magician?"

The king smiled, and rolled back his sleeves. "Yes, my son, I am only a magician."

"Then the man on the shore was God."

"The man on the shore was another magician."

"I must know the real truth, the truth beyond magic."

"There is no truth beyond magic," said the king.

The prince was full of sadness. He said, "I will kill myself."

The king by magic caused death to appear. Death stood in the door and beckoned to the prince. The prince shuddered. He remembered the beautiful but unreal islands and the unreal but beautiful princesses "Very well," he said. "I can bear it."

"You see, my son," said the king, "you too now begin to be a magician." 

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 09:55 PM
I want to make a very important point here.

Why would I say that it's better to assume everything is an 'illusion' and to not seek a far shore of certainty in the endless, ever changing ocean?

Have I 'given up'?


Am I a 'nihilist'?


Am I saying that 'everything is an illusion' because old dead, spiritual dudes some people believe said it?


Am I saying that stuff due to some 'psychic visions' that other people are just supposed to take my word for?


So why do I say it?

Well, I do have subjective reasons.. but objectively?

Well, first, Godel's Incompleteness Theorum

But simple logic will do the trick.

If you have incomplete information on a topic, (which we always will, as we are not
'god' outside of time and space', then you can never be certain about anything..

Let's say, that you have perhaps (you think) 99% of the info on something..

So you build an entire world on that concept (say you found Transtator (ST reference:

So you might think yourself all high and mighty now.. but say you gain even 1 single bit of more information; then you discover you were really in a simulation.

So you master that simulation, and 'go beyond it' - but you have no way of knowing how many other layers might exist in that Russian Doll set of simulations of simulations of simulations.

Most people crap out and just believe whatever # they want.. either science or religion or both.. as they can't handle the 'uncertainty'.

But if you roll around in it, and learn the 'trick of it'; an entire universe of new and conflicting change could be thrown at you, and you'd not move 1 single inch.

You may or may not choose to learn and grow and adapt.

But when you see that there is no shore... there can't be... at most only foggy images of temporary islands..

you either go mad, or you become 'free'.

I'm not saying it's easy at first.

I hope this was helpful.. it's not really about religion or spirituality or metaphysics or anything like that..

and yes, you can say, "ontology" and "epistemology" all day and twice on Sunday, but that won't make you FREE. That's a much more rare thing, a much more precious thing.

And yes, today's roses are tomorrow's turds,

and tomorrows turds are the next roses.

and none of it matters.

and all of it matters.

Now. if you are very fortunate (or unfortunate) you can experience some of this stuff with 'yoga' and 'kundalini' and what not, but that's actually entirely optional.

I hope I explained a bit better.

That's my perspective.

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 10:03 PM
And after all that uncertainty talk?

Yes, I'm VERY open to the possibility that some First Ones from the Early Universe, evolved into a vast machine intelligence, and conquered the entire Universe with gray ooze (nannites) too small for us to detect or some such thing.

You see.. I don't care on tiny bit, whether we are in a 'mystical uncertainty field' or a 'technological uncertainty field' so to speak.

Or both.

or neither.

I do have some subjective reasons to consider the Elder Nannite Theory.. and it makes a lot of sense rationally as well.

I'm not 'into physics, metaphysics, or spirituality'.

Those are just labels my friends.. and not particularly good ones.

I'm along for the ride.. and that's ALL that ANY of us can BE, probably FOREVER.

Jump in, the water is fine!

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 10:19 PM
And a final humor note.

When my wife is upset with me, do you know what I do?

I basically grovel.

Happy wife, happy life - nothing more important to know.

So yes.. there are things that I treat deadly seriously (sort of).

Is a politician trying to become a dictator in America? Maybe. So it's worth doing something, and I have.

Being 'free' doesn't mean you can't take anything you want, pretty seriously.

There certainly ARE 'temporary islands of apparent stability', and while ultimately they are not, on some cosmic level scale.. you might as well play along with some things.

The ride isn't fun, if you don't saddle up your dime store pony.


posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 10:26 PM
Yeah you like the rumble, don't you?

What General Patton called "the Sting of Battle," and spoke of as a positive thing. That may be lunacy when it comes to war, but metaphorically diving in and working with what we have to work with in a forceful and dynamic manner is quite admirable IMHO.

Personally I'm still seeking the exit door. Maybe someday I'll find it, or maybe I'll learn to love the roar and crash of the waves here in this place, as you seem to.

Here is a piece of Calligraphy from Master Hakuin, who I quoted to you last week, castigating spacy do-nothing monks as worthless.

It reads, "Zen pursued in the midst of activity is a million times superior to Zen pursued in the midst of tranquility."

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 10:33 PM
a reply to: Never Despise

I swear, I know that man.

I don't diss 'exits'.

They are just something else to enjoy.

As an exit is just an 'initiation' into something new.

Yet another pony, in a different dime store.

edit on 22-12-2020 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 10:34 PM
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Wow, bravo!
Yes to all of that.

You forgot only one thing: tools
True is we don't have them yet and it's crazy complicated to build them,
But eventually we'll build a "mind" that probably can overcome time, matter and all the boundries we have, it won't be able to look at it from above, but it will penetrate it to the last bit.
So my guess is the only point in spiritual inquiry we do is just to come up with a terminology and a broad basis with as little idiological boundries as possible so we may be able to
get it

It's kind of like: Why did the artist formerly known as God invent so many different religions?

edit on 22-12-2020 by Peeple because: add

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 10:37 PM
a reply to: Never Despise

By the by,

I LOVE most of your posts.

I find beauty.

I love Hakuin.

Well, the things he says are brain dead simple common sense.

But that's what makes them so beautiful.

Thank you friend.

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 10:41 PM
a reply to: Peeple

So my guess is the only point in spiritual inquiry we do is just to come up with a terminology and a broad basis with as little idiological boundries as possible so we may be able to
get it


it's better to harp on just one narrow concept.

Master one thing only,

and you find


posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 10:42 PM
a reply to: Peeple

Why did the artist formerly known as God invent so many different religions?

Man created both.

posted on Dec, 22 2020 @ 10:46 PM
a reply to: Phage

yes, man has created all these TOXIC concepts.


new topics

top topics

<< 8  9  10    12  13  14 >>

log in