New study supports Trump: 5.7 million noncitizens may have cast illegal votes

Why do I get asked to show an ID every single time I go to vote? Every single time. They claim I never replied to the census so I fell off the voter list. This is in MA. Every. single. time.

I was born here and have no criminal record, btw.

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Sillyolme

You can't vote without some form of ID.

I live in Pennsylvania and have never been required to show my ID. They tried to pass a voter ID law, but it was struck down, and wasn't appealed.
New York Times
A man that I work with went to vote with his son and found that someone else had already voted using their names. They were allowed to vote, but someone else voted for them illegally.

Correct. In many states most polling stations just ask you for your name, and if your name is on their registered list, they just let you vote without checking your ID. They also don't bother removing people when they die or move out of state. So all someone has to do to vote twice is know someone who died or moved that was a registered voter.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: UKTruth

I'm completely fine with VP Pence leading an investigation. I don't want non-citizens voting in our elections anymore than I want Putin meddling in them. This isn't that though.

Knowing your stance I admire your opinion on this matter.

For starters, this doesn't seem to be as new as the Washington Times implies. Here is the link to what I think is the study from December 2016.

www.justfactsdaily.com...

It seems as if the study heavily relies on this paper that has been discussed a lot.

www.sciencedirect.com...

Now I admit I am only a small way through this, but so far Just Facts study seems to be focusing on the debunking of the above mentioned paper.

Many of their numbers seem to come from this paper, which used used polling from a Harvard study, yougov data, and turnout data from Catalist.

There are a lot of numbers in here, but here is an example of how they aare getting their numbers.

In this 2008 survey of 32,800 respondents, 339 identified themselves as non-citizens, and 38 of these non-citizens checked a box that said “I definitely voted” in the 2008 general election or were recorded in the Catalist database as voting in that election. At face value, this means that 11.2% (38/339) of non-citizens voted in the 2008 election.

www.justfactsdaily.com...

So they take the fact that 11.2% of non citizens voted, multiply that by the number of non citizens that are in the country, and come up with the fact that in 2008 up to 2.8 million non citizens voted in 2008.

My first thought is I don't know if one poll done by Harvard (though granted i believe its done every two years with similar numbers) is enough to make such grandiose claims.

After this paper, apparently another paper was made debunking the first, which was then repeated by many in the media. The conclusions of that paper were that 0 people voted illegally.

At face value, that seems to be utterly ridiculous. Any ways, where I am in the study now is the Just Facts people debunking this idea that the original paper was inaccurate.

More to come.

originally posted by: toolgal462
Because illegals will always vote Democrat. That's why they defend them even though they are committing a federal crime just by being in the US, let alone voting in one of our elections. Also why the Democrats are against "the border wall" and the travel ban.

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

Bingo - Democrats don't care about illegal immigrants at all, they care about their votes. You can bet that if illegals voted in favour of Republicans, then Democrats would be all for deportations and immigration bans. The sad thing is that if that were the case, Republicans would be all for open borders and amnesty.

The Democrat strategy for changing the demographics of the country to help them win elections was set in motion nearly half a century ago.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: toolgal462
Because illegals will always vote Democrat. That's why they defend them even though they are committing a federal crime just by being in the US, let alone voting in one of our elections. Also why the Democrats are against "the border wall" and the travel ban.

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

Bingo - Democrats don't care about illegal immigrants at all, they care about their votes. You can bet that if illegals voted in favour of Republicans, then Democrats would be all for deportations and immigration bans. The sad thing is that if that were the case, Republicans would be all for open borders and amnesty.

The Democrat strategy for changing the demographics of the country to help them win elections was set in motion nearly half a century ago.

Yes I know. I've been reading a lot of your comments lately and tend to agree with you on almost everything. How is it you are from the UK and know so much more about our political system than most Americans?

The Democrats are so obvious with their pandering to illegals for future votes it's disgusting.

Another easy way involving people moving: I was registered to vote in Alaska. I recently moved back home to Pennsylvania (big #ing mistake). When I got here, I registered to vote and change my state of residency. However, nobody notifies Alaska of this. So they still think I live at my old address in Alaska. When the election is coming up, they'll mail cute little reminders to vote and things like that to my name at my old address. After my 120 US Mail forwarding is up, the postman won't bother removing things with my name from the mail delivered to that address, he'll just deliver it. So whoever lives there now will get voter info mail with my name on and, and know someone with my name is registered to vote there. So if Alaska does that same as PA, and they don't ask for your ID if you identify yourself as a name on their list, this person could go vote twice, once as themselves and once as me. The polling people may recognize him, and ask questions, but they may not. Or he can go to a different polling place. Some districts have multiple polling places.

There are a lot of ways it can be done.

Edit: I'm gonna be notifying Alaska to remove me from the voter rolls, but how many people think to do this? Most people either don't think of it, or they just assume their old state gets notified somehow when they register in their new state.

originally posted by: Grambler
For starters, this doesn't seem to be as new as the Washington Times implies. Here is the link to what I think is the study from December 2016.

www.justfactsdaily.com...

It seems as if the study heavily relies on this paper that has been discussed a lot.

www.sciencedirect.com...

Now I admit I am only a small way through this, but so far Just Facts study seems to be focusing on the debunking of the above mentioned paper.

Many of their numbers seem to come from this paper, which used used polling from a Harvard study, yougov data, and turnout data from Catalist.

There are a lot of numbers in here, but here is an example of how they aare getting their numbers.

In this 2008 survey of 32,800 respondents, 339 identified themselves as non-citizens, and 38 of these non-citizens checked a box that said “I definitely voted” in the 2008 general election or were recorded in the Catalist database as voting in that election. At face value, this means that 11.2% (38/339) of non-citizens voted in the 2008 election.

www.justfactsdaily.com...

So they take the fact that 11.2% of non citizens voted, multiply that by the number of non citizens that are in the country, and come up with the fact that in 2008 up to 2.8 million non citizens voted in 2008.

My first thought is I don't know if one poll done by Harvard (though granted i believe its done every two years with similar numbers) is enough to make such grandiose claims.

After this paper, apparently another paper was made debunking the first, which was then repeated by many in the media. The conclusions of that paper were that 0 people voted illegally.

At face value, that seems to be utterly ridiculous. Any ways, where I am in the study now is the Just Facts people debunking this idea that the original paper was inaccurate.

More to come.

You are correct - it is based on the same paper published a few years ago.. or at least the same data.
Harvard's rebuttal to get to an estimate of 0 is ridiculous on it's face. Their conclusion actually added weight to the 2.8m high end estimate.

There was a lot of discussion about the original analysis a few months back on here - including the very high likelihood that the President used this previous study to make the 3m claim.

The important thing to note about the estimates is the range - from very low to very high.
The CORRECT headline would be "Analysis shows that anywhere between 60,000 and 5.7m illegal votes were cast".

So the paper actually says there is no problem and there is a big problem at the same time, depending on which end of the range you want to believe.

That wide range is fairly reasonable, statistically, in terms of a conclusion given the sampling.

originally posted by: face23785

Said only bigots....

/sarc

a reply to: Grambler


Studies vs. Facts.

The local elections are so much more easily thrown and that is the danger. A few hundred votes separates judges in my county. Look what has happened elsewhere (non-study):

Local election results changed in Indianna after State Supreme Court Ruling

Election Fraud Samples From Across the Country (pdf)

My favorite: (just about voter fraud in general) "People have been doing it (fraudulent voting) for years, and all of a sudden they want to do something about it,"

Based on a sample survey of 800 Hispanics in 2013, McLaughlin found that of foreign-born respondents who were registered voters, 13 percent admitted they were not United States citizens.

It's how some of the non-citizens were caught. The report lists all of the 1,046 non-citizens by name.

The Federalist

But there is no problem.....right?

Illegals don't vote.

mg

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Sillyolme

You can't vote without some form of ID.

I live in Pennsylvania and have never been required to show my ID. They tried to pass a voter ID law, but it was struck down, and wasn't appealed.
New York Times
A man that I work with went to vote with his son and found that someone else had already voted using their names. They were allowed to vote, but someone else voted for them illegally.

Correct. In many states most polling stations just ask you for your name, and if your name is on their registered list, they just let you vote without checking your ID. They also don't bother removing people when they die or move out of state. So all someone has to do to vote twice is know someone who died or moved that was a registered voter.

It is actually easier than that.
Registered voter rolls are publicly available.

a reply to: UKTruth

Looking at the outcome of elections I believe it is.

And also. Don't assume all undocumented residents voted for Hillary.

IMO this should be very low on the list of priorities of things that need fixing in this country. And is just another example of putting party first before the people. They just care about them winning rather than working together to make things better for generations to come.

a reply to: TobyFlenderson

The left doesn't want this and it's not happening.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: UKTruth

Looking at the outcome of elections I believe it is.

And also. Don't assume all undocumented residents voted for Hillary.

IMO this should be very low on the list of priorities of things that need fixing in this country. And is just another example of putting party first before the people. They just care about them winning rather than working together to make things better for generations to come.

I would suggest that ensuring the integrity of elections should be number 1 on the list of priorities.
Isn't that why the Russian 'interference' is so important?

As for illegals - of course the vast majority are likely to have voted for Hillary if they did vote - voting for Trump would have been voting for their deportation.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Sillyolme

You can't vote without some form of ID.

I live in Pennsylvania and have never been required to show my ID. They tried to pass a voter ID law, but it was struck down, and wasn't appealed.
New York Times
A man that I work with went to vote with his son and found that someone else had already voted using their names. They were allowed to vote, but someone else voted for them illegally.

Correct. In many states most polling stations just ask you for your name, and if your name is on their registered list, they just let you vote without checking your ID. They also don't bother removing people when they die or move out of state. So all someone has to do to vote twice is know someone who died or moved that was a registered voter.

It is actually easier than that.
Registered voter rolls are publicly available.

Good point.

But naaaah, right? Nobody would do that.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: TobyFlenderson

The left doesn't want this and it's not happening.

Lol, a short sentence reveals so much of your mind set.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: TobyFlenderson

The left doesn't want this and it's not happening.

It must be great going through life this delusional.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: TobyFlenderson

The left doesn't want this and it's not happening.

You don't know that, it's why everyone should support an investigation.

It becomes pretty ironic when you realize that Canada, Germany and even third world countries like Uganda have tighter voter ID laws than the US.