Civility, decorum and the Aliens and UFO Forum

Civilty and decorum are overrated. Everyone is "for" civility and decorum except when they want to call someone dumb or crazy then it is somehow different.

I have stayed away from this thread, because I knew who was going to jump on it and how it was going to go. Now that everyone seems to have vented and let everything out in the open I will say a few words;

I came on to this site a true believer in extraterrestrials, I believed literally everything I was told, why? because up to this very day many many strange things have happened to me in my life and I have been lucky to witness things beyond normal science. Therefore, when one experiences these things acceptance becomes the norm. However, believe me when I say this: skeptical minded people are very necessary to sites like this for various reasons.

Without skeptical minded people on this site, it would quickly become a playground for ghoul hunters,ET killers, hoaxes after hoaxes you name it ATS would change from being a level playing field to a complete unruly uncontrollable mess. Skeptical minded people offer a rigid scientific balance which is helpful to keep our feet on the ground.

My only gripe I have with some skeptics is that they do not listen when trying to explain personal experiences to them or when someone tries to explain another part of science that is truely unexplained, it appears that some members are as rigid in their beliefs as science is in general towards the metaphysical and indeed ET.

I have said time and time again that we should all be working together to find a common ground but unfortunately my words always end up on deaf ears. It is a shame that the speaking of certain topics which include natural plant extracts are against T&C'S as I believe this is the common ground that everyone can walk on. I can only hope that one day we will all become our own shamans in a hu-man collective thought.

Please remember this John Mak, Graham Hancock, Rick Schneider, were all skeptical minded of extra terrestrials/metaphysical consciousness before they decided to research the phenomenom and undertake professional studies (some which were sponsored by the very groups denying the knowledge to the people to this very day) However, when they started to experience the very same thing that they had been skeptical minded about their whole life changed and when they tried to convince scientists or their new discoveries, these very same rigid opinionated people who they thought were friends turned against them and tried desperately to discredit them. The question we have to ask is why? why launch such vicious campaigns against someone that simply disagrees with modern science? For example alot of what happened to John Mak is happening on this very site.

Despite members explaining in great detail of solid conscious experiences, the skeptical minded individuals immediately jump on to the member attacking them from all angles because it doesn't conform to their own reality of understanding and that they have no intention of changing their own self educated perspective neither. Which leaves one wondering why exactly are they on a conspiracy site if not to cause arguments for the sake of it?

Lastly, I have stayed away from the UFO forums lately as I do not want to get drawn in to these types of arguments and I find it easier to read a thread and then leave a post if necessary, normally thanking the OP for their time and effort. Over my time here on ATS I have learned a great deal and I continue to learn each day. I can only wish that when disclosure comes it will unite us and take us into a new era of learning and understanding.

Originally posted by woodwytch

I am in total agreement after having a post removed just yesterday without any explanation from the MOD concerned other than the general sticker saying the post was 'off-topic' (which it certainly was not).

I think an explanation for any action taken by a Moderator as well as the general sticker would certainly save a lot of confusion and frustration.

I wanted to address this point, even at the risk of being off topic in a fellow member's thread, because this is an important issue that every member should be aware of regarding staff actions.

You as a member have the full right to question any action taken against you. Drop a U2U to which ever mod takes an action and ask. I believe that there isn't anyone on staff that will not explain an action that they performed. Keep in mind that we all keep odd hours so an instant reply might not happen. Should there be no response within a day or two (or if you would rather not U2U that particular mod in the first place) feel free to ask via the ATS Suggestions/Complaints Form feature located in the Member Tools and get the full attention of the entire Staff.

I have seen actions reconsidered, even in my short time on staff, and things can indeed be reversed, deducted point refunded, etc.

Everyone is human here and yep, even the staff members can make a mistake now and again.

reply to post by Ahabstar


Ahabstar.....

Along with almost all of the Mods with whom I have enjoyed the pleasure of interacting, I commend you for your very decent & well mannered approach to your important role on ATS.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 17-8-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

So I'm curious what people have gotten out of this thread. Has anything changed? I saw a whole lot of defensiveness and off-hand remarks, but did anyone actually step back and feel the need to re-adjust themselves?

reply to post by EsSeeEye


On a personal level I don't think I have to readjust anything with regards to civility or decorum through my conduct on these boards.

I do think that the OP (who also moderates these particular boards) completely overlooked the expected manners of (for the want of a better word) believers and picked on sceptics for reasons which people from both sides of the fence suffer from.

Having the word 'You' bolded and capitalised throughout a reply to myself within a stern opinionated post by said OP in a thread about civility further condemns the inability I perceive for some people to keep their hypocrisy out of their roles as adjudicators. The irony is not lost on me and I'm sure there are many others who will agree (but bite their tongues for fear of reprisal).

So yes, on a community member level, I have adjusted my efforts to keeping these boards clean and intend to 'pick people up' on their conduct whenever they have the privilege of authority and abuse it to their own ends. I'll do it, as I always have, through reason though as I find public humiliation works a lot better than an alert system and helps everyone understand what is acceptable practise through example. Group thought allows us each to keep ourselves in check.

There are very well kept moderator forums here to make sure transparent conduct is upheld (most of the time) and I think it's time we took bias out of the equation insofar as hounding polite sceptics and praising evidence lacking claims and I'd like to see policy to that end being made by the management of these boards.

I'm sure others have differing ideas from me though and look forward to reading them.

-m0r

reply to post by EsSeeEye


EsSeeEye.....

So I'm curious what people have gotten out of this thread.

That which I "have gotten out of this thread" is a continuing feeling of disbelief pertaining to the lack of balance of the opening post.

Has anything changed?

Yes.....that which has changed is my formerly almost relentlessly positive view of this forum, based on what I perceived was our group objective of "denying ignorance".

did anyone actually step back and feel the need to re-adjust themselves?

Yes.....I might "re-adjust" myself by decreasing my participation in this forum until I give further thought to what has just transpired & the subsequent precedent set by this thread.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not


[edit on 17-8-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

Originally posted by Krzyzmo
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

absolutely, debunking remains important. I think it is more the debunkers that come to the table without facts for a good counter-argument that de-rail the good discussions.

A Fair Analogy? :

Debunkers Are Only Right 15 out of 16 times, when the puzzle only has 2 pieces.

but once out of 16 times two sides of those puzzle pieces do fit together.

the only thing debunkers have on their side is the statistics! and the numbers are in their favor!


debunkers sometimes stop trying to fit a piece of the puzzle into place after a few failures. or attempt skeptics, believers, and those who are sure from attempting to put the pieces of the puzzle together.



maybe they are 4 sides to the puzzle themselves?

......................................absolutley sure........................
..........................................^......................................
debunker/no chance..............skeptical/don't know
..........................................v......................................
.......................................believer/no proof.....................

don't get me wrong, ATS is a better place with the debunkers.

HOWEVER, if you are entering into a discussion with the clear intentions of being only focussed on debunking, then you are less likely to be receptive to the larger discussion.

it has been my observation that there are members who will argue senselessly against the existance of one pixel or what exactly the pixel could be, rather than accepting that the pixel actually is or may be a pixel and it's neighboring pixels exist in order to accept that the whole computer screen makes more sense with the pixels than without the pixels.

those are some thoughts i had, i thought i would share,
et

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]

reply to post by m0r1arty

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Thanks guys, I was feeling pretty much the same. It's a shame.

Maybe we should have a couple of weeks off. Let everyone go nuts without any skeptical opinion to sway them. I bet we'd see some new skeptics by the time we came back.

reply to post by neformore


Question (Alien Abductions): Just for clarification. According to several stories in which people are sharing, many individuals are describing personal experiences that can be checked off on DSM-IV-TR. If we do not consider the physical condition and environment in which a person lives, how can a successful 'scientific' examination of each case be possible?

How can we eliminate hallucinations caused by brain trauma, mental illness, environmental toxins, etc..? How about delusions? Schizophrenia, sleep paralysis, etc??

If we are not able to examine the facts through a scientific lens, you guys have no basis to prove anything on these forums. All UFO and alien abduction cases at ATS will be tainted with false evidence.

Unless you have a means to figure out who has what mental illness (or what their life-space consists of), you have a major conundrum in trying to prove anything.

No science + No psychology = No such thing as alien abductions and UFOs.

How do you solve these conundrums?

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Section31]

Originally posted by EsSeeEye
So I'm curious what people have gotten out of this thread. Has anything changed? I saw a whole lot of defensiveness and off-hand remarks, but did anyone actually step back and feel the need to re-adjust themselves?

Even though I agree that some type of personal restraint must be practiced, 'by all individuals', I think the believers need to grow a thicker layer of skin. After participating in a few UFO threads, I have come to the conclusion that UFO believers are looking to create a religion. When you eliminate science, psychology, and logic from the table, you are left with a philosophical and religious experience without merit.

Added:: You either want UFOs and alien abduction cases to be based upon science, logic, and psychology, - or - you want UFOs and alien abduction cases to be based upon religious experiences.

You cannot have both.

You people choose.

If you chose the religious experiences, I have no problem going to another forum site to examine this phenomenon. I can skip over this portion of "Above Top Secret", and participate in other subjects of interest.

You people have an opportunity to turn this stuff into science.

I have nothing to lose.

What do you people want?

[edit on 18-8-2010 by Section31]

reply to post by Section31


Well said.
There are plenty of sites overflowing with UFO baloney, just for "believers".
Those disturbed by sceptics can go there.
If ATS becomes one of those sites, who needs it!

Alien 5-D Documents

reply to post by zeiolentay


Huh?
What are those supposed to be, and what do they have to do with this thread?
It's this kind of thing that makes it hard to be...polite sometimes!

reply to post by zeiolentay


Zeiolentay.....

Congratulations on your first post!

You may find you will be better off if you use this material as the basis for a seperate thread in this forum.

If you would like any assistance to do that, let me know & I will be very pleased to oblige.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Nobody wants the debunkers to go away. At least I know I don't.
When I see something I think is not real, (usually not a deliberate hoax by a member, just something someone found they thought was interesting) --
I want to read what you guys have to say about it. It's like....I know something is wrong with this....but I'm not sure what it is....and you guys can usually identify a problem with the photograph, or it's the work of a known hoaxer, or whatever.

But just not to the degree that it becomes an argument with the OP, and not to the degree that it monopolizes the thread. Otherwise I look forward to what the debunkers have to say.

Oh crap. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. Maybe you guys do.

Originally posted by ladyinwaiting
Oh crap. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. Maybe you guys do.

I know exactly what you mean, and can sympathize. Maybe...maybe not, Phage and the rest of the gang know more about what to look for when there's a suspected hoax or misidntification than I do, so I always look for their posts to hear what they have to say.

That's not to say I'm incapable of forming my own opinion or doing my own research, just that most of the time they're pretty spot on and they do it quickly. What would take me a few hours of research to figure out, those guys know off the top of their head. It would be a shame and a loss to the forum to see them stop posting because a few crybabies couldn't take a few jokes.


TheAssoc.

yes, this has been floating around for awhile now.

but, i think it is pertinent to the conversation here, if you are an ATSer who has not viewed it, it may be to your benefit to watch it.
i did, more than once:

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


Nicely stated ET!

I'm happy you watched it more than once - I think it's an excellent video and one which shows the mindset of scepticism in a fresh and passive (as far as scepticism can be) way.

There are two other videos which by the same person which compliment it beautifully and show those who don't understand scepticism what it is over at the 'A brief guide to scepticism' thread.

-m0r

Originally posted by Ahabstar

Everyone is human here and yep, even the staff members can make a mistake now and again.

i think it is unfortunate that many members do not realize the responsibilities and obligations the mods have, and everything that goes on "behind the scenes" so to speak.

i wish some members would have a little bit more empathy for the mods.

LET THE MODS ENJOY THEIR ATS, TOO!!!

the less they have to "babysit" the more participation and discussions they have time to contribute to.

no applause necessary, but it needed to be said.

Keep ATS fun,
et


p.s.

Let the mods enjoy their ATS, too.

[edit on 19-8-2010 by Esoteric Teacher]