Why can't some ATSers differentiate between Transgender vs Transsexual?

reply to post by SLAYER69

Who do you think they'll be mad at?

Wait Wait. I know.
The civil rights marchers!
Right?

How about the 'Target group' just simply do their thing? Whatever that thing is.

Yeah, they do get all uppity. Don't they?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Parades are protests now?

reply to post by Phage


Try not to sound too bitter. It was just a hypothetical.



reply to post by Kali74



I was obviously talking about Protests, Not parades.

Nice try though.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Try not to sound too bitter. It was just a hypothetical.

They would be hypothetically angry with the hypothetical civil rights marchers.
What's your point? Or did you miss mine?

reply to post by SLAYER69


But we're talking about pride parades, at least I thought we were. I'm not trying to be snarky with you, if the last post came across that way I'm sorry. I'm trying to discuss this with you. I don't think you're a bigot or anything, maybe slightly uncomfortable but I don't think you're the type to persecute others. You do seem to have this notion though that I disagree with, which is that gays/trans should be silent, unseen... that's what I'm trying to discuss.

reply to post by gardener


What is this obsession with teaching everybody what to call everything else? You are who you are, you do what you do, and until it has an effect on me it's none of my business (which is probably why I don't know the difference- I never bothered to intrude on the privacy of people's bedrooms and associate their actions with whatever term they choose for themselves).

reply to post by Kali74


They should be silent/unseen.

Sexuality is "what" you are, not 'who" you are. I don't care to interact with people in a way predicated on what they are. I want to interact with people because of WHO they are.

What someone chooses to do with their genitalia....should never really be part of meaningful discourse. I certainly don't often share my own experience in that regard.

As it relates to parades....parade all you want. Keep in mind...i am a staunch supporter of gay rights...but most gay parades are off putting. They put their sexuality front and center and then focus on what they are: gay.

How is anyone ever supposed to accept that? Why would anyone think they are benefitting their cause by being purposefully obnoxious and shocking? Gay pride parades typically amount to shooting the entire movement in the collective foot.

reply to post by Phage


Yes

And I got your implied statement too.

SLAYER69

bigfatfurrytexan
A gay guy that works with me cannot have his significant other covered under his insurance. Why? They aren't married. And cannot legally be married.

Fair enough...


"They're already covered under the Bill of rights...

suffice it to say that any violation of those and they should prevail in any court"

When they win, it wont be anything special just a normal Human being defending their rights.

No?

Not that i have to say it, but you "get it".

I have enjoyed reading yours and Wrabbits posts in this thread. I often am fairly militant in my views on gay rights.....but yours and wrabbits viewpoints are pretty spot on as they are represented in this thread.

Its hard to feel sorrow for a group who is obtuse on purpose. I know many gay folks. Only a few would participate in a parade. Most just want to live life and not bother with all the hoopla.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Then don't go to a gay pride parade. To say they shouldn't have them though? That's what all parades are, a show of pride and many cultural ones get highly sexualized, I don't know why... just seems to happen. Look at the Brazilian carnivales, the Mardi Gras parades... bare boobs and butts everywhere! If that bothers you then don't go. Not many people get outraged over those though, no one cries about someone's culture being shoved in their face during those parades.

Kali74
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Then don't go to a gay pride parade. To say they shouldn't have them though? That's what all parades are, a show of pride and many cultural ones get highly sexualized, I don't know why... just seems to happen. Look at the Brazilian carnivales, the Mardi Gras parades... bare boobs and butts everywhere! If that bothers you then don't go. Not many people get outraged over those though, no one cries about someone's culture being shoved in their face during those parades.

You do understand the difference, right?

A cultural parade....that is about the common background of ethnic groups. A gay pride parade tends to relate to highlighting how one chooses to utilize their genitals. That, alone, isn't so bad. Just do it in modest ways (all adults know what "gay" means....and don't need a whole bunch of explicit behavior to highlight it).

I have seen friends pictures from parades. It is obvious that the point, in many peoples eyes, is to be as shocking and unsettling as possible. Now, it doesn't bother me. LIke I have said....i am a staunch advocate, and am unfazed by most typically shocking behaviors. But to the people who you are trying to sway in order to increase acceptance....it is killing the cause. Absolutely killing it. So bad that I have to wonder if the biggest fruitcakes that show up aren't just agents provocateur trying to discredit them. Then I remember some of the drag queens I have met before, and realize that is probably not the case.

In any event, parades are held on public streets. It isn't a private party. "Don't go to them" could amount to having to avoid parts of town.

If you don't think gay pride parades don't hurt the gay rights movement, let me disillusion you: gay pride parades are kllling the gay rights movement. I will go further to point out that "Anything Pride Parades" are stupid. The stupidest thing ever. What kind of moron takes pride in something that they were born into? How about a White Pride Parade? Should I organize one of those, and tell people who don't like it to not go? LOL....then act all shocked when the news shows up and people say hateful things about me?

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

They should be silent/unseen.

I'm sorry but what I'm seeing is that a lot of people in these threads are saying that gay/trans people shouldn't say that they are gay or trans. That it's all okay as long as no one else sees it. That they shouldn't speak about issues they face as people who are different from 'norm'. That all these issues would just go away "if the gays would just shut up already, stop dividing us". I have a hard time believing you are okay with this.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


I'm not one for shock value either which is why I don't go to gay parades or Mardi Gras or several other similar events, I had been to a few (local Festivals and parades) and was like WOW!, they can get quite graphic with some people actually engaging in public sex after dark. So I haven't been to another one because that's not my thing. But what do I care if they continue having them?

Oh and the white pride parades still happen too, however those tend not to get sexual which I find amusing somehow lol.

reply to post by Kali74


Mardi Gras

Why the hell not?

Kali74
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

They should be silent/unseen.

I'm sorry but what I'm seeing is that a lot of people in these threads are saying that gay/trans people shouldn't say that they are gay or trans. That it's all okay as long as no one else sees it. That they shouldn't speak about issues they face as people who are different from 'norm'. That all these issues would just go away "if the gays would just shut up already, stop dividing us". I have a hard time believing you are okay with this.

Good. Because I didn't say it.

As a straight man, what business do I have talking about what I choose to do with my genitals? Do you want to hear about it? Should I post a story here for you guys? And when ATS removed it, should I scream that I have issues that need to be discussed?

Sex is not something that needs to be discussed in public. I could give a long list of hilarious things that a straight person could say in passing that is just plain wrong.

If you want to be gay, then be gay. If you think your rights are being trampled on, then protest. But to show up to that protest wearing assless chaps and a tail sticking out of your tuckus is not really the right way to go about it, now is it?

And since my own son is gay, and he faces many of the problems you are trying to allude to....it isn't like I don't have a bead on the issues that concern a gay person in America. And as a 41 year old man who is familiar with addressing the public, using media to "get the word out", and managing public relations....it is very, very stupid to protest in that manner.

It pisses me off that he and I both will have to work harder just to get him treated fairly. All because a few people don't know how to win a fight and insist on using parades/protests as a way to shock people and promote their own agenda

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


What are you on about seriously? I'm rather floored atm by your interpretations of what I'm saying. Who is talking about the act of sex? I know we got sidetracked on the parade issue but not all pride parades are like that to begin with. I think you are misunderstanding me in a major way.

Wrabbit2000

thesaneone
reply to post by gardener

 

You know what the real problem is? Labels, why do people want labels nowadays? I thought we were trying to get away from labeling people who are "different" If you want me to call you something then just tell me your name and let me judge you by who you are not what you want to be labeled.

Thank you and you make the best point of the thread, IMO. We are obsessively hung up with labeling. You must be straight, or gay...TG or TS...Black or White or Other or whatever. Just being a person and individual isn't enough, and not by a long shot.

Perhaps it's that individuality that scares people and creates the seeming need to BE labeled and self-assign to a larger group for identity?

I really don't get it myself. I suppose there are a few groups I could work myself into being a part of claiming..but why? I'm not White, American, Missourian or a few other things less public about myself. I'm a PERSON who happens to have those traits to describe my life and experience in it ...but they don't define the PERSON, right?

Labels define, restrict and segregate people ..and people line up willingly to participate in more of it. Go figure?

Actually, I think you, wrabbit, along with thesaneone, stormdancer, and spiramirabilis make the best points in this thread.

Why?

Because the OP is forcing the false dilemma/dichotomy in the original post. Transgender vs Transsexual is in itself an attempt to label or compartmentalize unique individuals into discrete categories. Instead of viewing individuals as special ( and everyone is special in their own way!), it proposes that one has to be this OR that once again. This really defeats the purpose of the thread's intention that is supposedly against duality, i.e., black vs. white, etc.

Transgender/sexual issues are best seen in light of a continuum; they are not black nor white but rather many shades of gray.

For instance, Stormdancer pointed out the gray, yet more surfacing area of asexual, or androgyny.

Spiramirabilis discussed facts that besides DNA--which we still have much to learn about--there may be biological (hormonal/adrenal, etc.) fluctuations along this continuum which can account for an individual's differences in their sexual/gender issues, also.

I believe that there are psychological components too, as I am aware of quite a few actual male husbands who are married to female wives (with the males/husbands) taking herbs to increase their estrogen, and decrease their testosterone, in effort to grow breasts and become more feminine. Yet, most still maintain satisfying sexual relationships with their wives, and have no intention of going total male to female.

We just need to stop the stereotyping, generalizing, and labeling. We just need to look at individuals as unique, and on a case-by-case basis instead of lumping them all into some category.

Why do we need to know at ATS?

Your explanation confused me even more. Makes it sound like they're confused.

I thought a transsexual was someone who changed their genitals, breasts to become the other gender.
Like if a female flattens her breasts, gets a strapodictomy , she becomes a he.

I thought a man who likes to dress as a woman's or vise versa was a cross dresser. Or is that a transgender?

I suppose I'm ignorant then. No. I don't understand it. Nor do I feel I should unless it becomes part of my life where I must.

I'm dealing with a gay daughter. That's enough for me to understand right now. She has some friends that changed and I just cal them " pat" re the movie pat.

reply to post by gardener

I think the reason is because we just don't care, at least I don't. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against transsexuals or transgenders or homosexuals, I'm just sick and tired of their lifestyles being shoved in my face and being told I have to accept it. I don't have to accept anything! I don't care what people do in their private lives just don't intrude on mine.

Enough already with the parades and flags and the persecutions of people who don't agree with certain lifestyles. It is getting out of hand. Just live your lives and don't worry about trying to change the way people think and see things. You have as much of a chance of changing them as they have of changing you.

reply to post by Kali74


i am answering your questions. That is all.

Initially i made no reference to parades. Once brought up, i commented on them. I am of the opinion that any kind of "pride parade" is negative, to be honest.

But to answer your question....i am just answering your questions.