Mirage Men is out.

Congrats to 1o9 and StealthyAurora, this thread will be discussed tonight during the 2nd hour of ATS Live.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

RoloD

boncho
Doty is a liar, everyone is aware....
Either A) Doty is still continuing his disinfo campaigns but off the books.
or B) He's partially telling the truth...
The main question is, why all the effort? Why so much effort to make aliens a laughable subject when it's obvious that it cannot serve the same stated purpose as it once did?

This is the conundrum of the self-confessed liar. If he was lying then, why believe him now?

Putting aside his gulling of Bennewitz, Moore and Howe, I would put the heart of the puzzle in these terms:

1) Doty believes the story of ET contact from Roswell on and it is true.
2) Doty believes the story and it isn't true. (Doty as patsy)
3) Doty doesn't believe the story. (Doty as ongoing misinformer)

Serpo to me seems of minor importance - a curiosity, a prank rather than a serious disinformation campaign, possibly Doty continuing his games unofficially because he wants to be more than a traffic cop. By the time of Serpo I think the real campaign was over.

I think money is the obvious motivation behind Serpo, so long as the information is legit about all of it coming from him. What I'm not sure of, is that he wrote all the material himself. While it does sound like it could be coming from the same person, there are a lot of technical things in there, (some wrong) and it kind of seems like something put together for a more than just promoting a book.

In any case, no matter what it's for. The government kind of took a black eye in the dealings with disinformation when it came to light. I don't see them letting Doty run around disclosing things unless it was on purpose.

So why continue this?

boncho
I think money is the obvious motivation behind Serpo, so long as the information is legit about all of it coming from him.

Well, Doty's certainly not the originator of the recurring themes attached to Aquarius, MJ-12, SERPO, etc. Those items are more directly related to the so-called "core story" of Green, Puthoff, and Vallee. Oh, and lookie: Dr. Green is present yet again.

The government kind of took a black eye in the dealings with disinformation when it came to light. I don't see them letting Doty run around disclosing things unless it was on purpose.

Bingo, Boncho...that's rather fun to say, btw: Bingo, Boncho!

reply to post by The GUT


We are discussing this thread on ATS LIve! today. The Gut (AND OTHER PARTICIPATING THREAD MEMBERS) I would love you to call in I know trying to get Isaac on air is like trying to resurrect zombies ....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by vbstrvct




The US government goes to great lengths, such as Cointelpro, to make sure the American population stays in the American mainstream of thinking.

Cointelpro was the US government psyop to make sure the Black population stayed away from the militant black movement.

The same was done in the communist threat era.

I think all this may be a psyop to make the Alien UFO events look ridiculous to keep the UFO movement out of the mainstream.

I'm glad to hear the news, and congratulations to everyone involved!

I hope the show raises the profile of Mirage Men but in particular this avenue of research, which we can all agree deserves more attention. Unfortunately I will not be able to listen live, but I will listen to it when it's posted.

Thanks for the information The GUT!

reply to post by The GUT




I think you could be Kit’s campaign manager if he ran for president!

Seriously

GUT, do you think Kit Green was the mastermind behind this disinformation?

I’m getting that from your posts

Green may be the guy who chooses who or where to direct the disinformation to?

Or more sinister and deeper is that he may prepare those who are gonna get the weirdness?

Willtell
I think all this may be a psyop to make the Alien UFO events look ridiculous to keep the UFO movement out of the mainstream.

Oh, I have no doubt one of the objectives is to wrap the whole subject with a protective layer of ridicule.

Unfortunately many so called ufologists are in part to blame for that, for promoting outlandish claims and stories without evidence. And others just outright use those outlandish stories for profit, no doubt.

The phenomenon is obviously complex enough, and those who look for answers have to go through these added layers of noise. Some days I wonder if it's even possible anymore to make actual progress in this field.

reply to post by vbstrvct



There use to be something called the Psychological Strategy Board WHOSE OBJECTIVE WAS TO KEEP Americans American.
Then they changed the name to something called Operations Coordinating Board in 1953

In 1961 Kennedy abolished it.

They were for Psychological warfare purposes, foreign and domestic

This kind of work, without a doubt, went somewhere within the US government security apparatus.

This is who did this operation, imo.

Willtell
GUT, do you think Kit Green was the mastermind behind this disinformation?

After a few years of trying on all the various theories, I have come to believe that he's the main---or, "in the field" project manager (maybe "co-" with Puthoff.)

I think there's sufficient evidence to take the proposal seriously that we might be looking at an experiment. If that turns out to be true, then I imagine he designed aspects of it.

Has anyone here read any of the DIA TIGER study of emerging technologies? Dr. Green was a chair. It's VERY possible that an earlier experiment was dusted off post 9/11 and what we see in SERPO has more to do with terrorism & imperialism than UFOs. Mebbe even globalism in its wider context.

reply to post by The GUT


I think you are in the ball park. This guy has got some resume: www.starpod.us...

He is certainly the heavyweight in this
Doty a state trooper and this guy

www.starpod.us... Pso74Y

When world-class scientists are working on intelligence-rated projects seeking ways to determine, influence, and manipulate "the behaviors of individuals and groups," how do you suppose they go about that? From the TIGER study:

in developing the methodology, the committee considered the end user (analysts and predictors of the behaviors of individuals and groups), the data available to them, the desired output, and the unique aspects (if relevant) of neuroscience research. Intelligence analysts were available for consultation throughout the project in order to ensure that the methodology was realistically applied, given the limitations of the data sets.

linkwww.nap.edu...

Do they get some volunteers and set them down at tables and try various ways to get folk to believe the red pill is blue, and the blue pill is red?


No, it requires a complex project that requires an unwitting community. Thusly, and noting all we have about MJ-12, SERPO, Kit's interests in memes and such, as well as the intelligence connections of it's main figures, and the fact that there is indeed a ready-made ufological community…well, I think it's a thesis that can't be easily dismissed.



We might also look again at this sentence from the TIGER study quoted above:

Intelligence analysts were available for consultation throughout the project in order to ensure that the methodology was realistically applied, given the limitations of the data sets.

Dr. Green is a current member of the National Research Council’s Standing Committee on Technology Insight—Gauge, Evaluate, and Review (TIGER).

reply to post by The GUT

I understand your argument, and I think the scenario you propose has as much validity as the one I propose.

I just want to note the irony of that even when we're just discussing human agents (in this case Kit Green), based on pretty much the same information, we reach entirely different conclusions. But that's the nature of this business, it seems

From Vallée's interactions with Kit depicted in Forbidden Science, which I've seen you quote, I got the impression - and so did Vallée - that Kit was honest, and was really trying to locate the "UFO project", but he was apparently constantly stonewalled.

It's true that Vallée didn't seem to understand how Kit could overlook such, to Vallée, obvious data and conclude there was nothing to, for example, the cattle mutilations. But I don't see that as indication that Kit was purposely deceiving Vallée, but instead just an example of Kit's own bias. There is no doubt Dr. Kit Green is a highly intelligent individual but he is still human.

Is Kit Green highly intelligent? Yes. Was he well connected? Yes. But did he have a need to know? If the answer to that is no then one's intellect, status, position or security clearances aren't going to get you access. So I can't adhere to the position that because he was connected, interested in UFOs and intelligent, he must have had been in the know.

reply to post by vbstrvct

With all due respect, vbstrvct, you offer--mostly--only opinion whereas I posted a considerable amount of sourcing and quotes that relate to memes and social engineering. Further, you are making statements that assume I'm stating something different than I am.

For one: I don't think Dr. Green is in the know about UFOs. I do have a caveat to that, that references his "weird science" work and personal interests in aspects of phenomenology, but for the present I think those items are better left out while we focus on Kit's relationship to SERPO.

You also, so far, have failed to address what I believe are some of the finer points made by Vallee as regards Kit in FS II.

The GUT
With all due respect, vbstrvct, you offer--mostly--only opinion whereas I posted a considerable amount of sourcing and quotes that relate to memes and social engineering.

Unless I missed a post, I don't think you have proved your position as factual, and as such it still is mostly your opinion as well, isn't it?

I have absolutely no problem with you believing yours has more validity by the fact that you've provided "a considerable amount of sourcing and quotes related to memes and social engineering" that lead you to conclude what you have about Kit Green.

Further, you are making statements that assume I'm stating something different than I am.

I admit that's possible, and if that's the case I apologize.

You also, so far, have failed to address what I believe are some of the finer points made by Vallee as regards Kit in FS II.

Could you please list them? Or at least a few you believe are the most relevant. I will try to address them when I can.

vbstrvct
Unless I missed a post, I don't think you have proved your position as factual, and as such it still is mostly your opinion as well, isn't it?

Yes, it's opinion. Or maybe we could make the analogy that it's a detective's theory. One that includes evidentiary items that actually back it.

Maybe even enough for a grand jury to forward it. As such, I think it's the strongest theory that has been proffered thus far. It's also, again imo, a tight enough fit to be considered and pondered rather than poo-pooing it without some deeper study.

Could you please list them? Or at least a few you believe are the most relevant. I will try to address them when I can.

I'll send you a page number from my MIB(OPs) thread that goes into more detail as regards FS II. Gotta tune into ATS Live right now!! Much respect, brother! I'm feisty, but I do appreciate you. Don't think I don't.

reply to post by The GUT


It's called an educated guess. Or deductions. Not saying you are right or wrong, but the alternative is talking out your ass. (not directing that at the other member specifically either.)

But as long as you post your sources people can at least challenge your opinion with sources and information of their own, and perhaps an opinion may sway or two parties can respectfully disagree. I always get bummed when a challenging opinion comes with no meat to make a burger.

And I like burgers.

I am reading Vallees book Revelations. Good book. He goes over a lot of the stuff that is in Mirage men, BUT I am noticing something very strange.

He does go over the Bill Moore confessions at that UFO conference, and other similar situations as Mirage men and related disinformation scams of the Gov.

Now here’s the thing. He doesn’t at all even mention Paul Bennewitz.

Maybe I’ m not all into the correct timeline but it appears that for some strange reason Valle is ignoring the Bennewitz saga

Does anyone know any of Vallees work that covers this?

Willtell
I am reading Vallees book Revelations. Good book. He goes over a lot of the stuff that is in Mirage men, BUT I am noticing something very strange.
...

Now here’s the thing. He doesn’t at all even mention Paul Bennewitz.

My various editions of Vallee's book "Revelations" DO include discussion of Paul Bennewitz.

I can give you page references if you let me know which edition you have been reading.

For that matter, I think all my editions have an index which includes an entry for "Bennewitz, Paul" which gives the relevant page number in that edition.

Willtell
it appears that for some strange reason Valle is ignoring the Bennewitz saga

Not in my copies of his books.

Here is a copy of the start of one relevant section in Vallee's book "Revelations". The relevant section has Bennewitz's name in the title and mentions him repeatedly. (Bennewitz is also mentioned in later sections of the book).

zazzafrazz
We are discussing this thread on ATS LIve! today. The Gut (AND OTHER PARTICIPATING THREAD MEMBERS) I would love you to call in

I know trying to get Isaac on air is like trying to resurrect zombies ....

I missed the live chat (ATS rookie obviously)

Anyone get shot down dead in the street?