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Mirage Men is out.

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posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by noeltrotsky
 

nefermore was very receptive to the idea and had some good knowledge of the wider-scope of ufology as prostituted by factions within the gubmint. He was also receptive to the point that Kit, Hal, etc. wouldn't enjoy continued contracts/security clearances if they were working against the gubmint in trying to force some disclosure.

I sucked I'm sure. I thought I was in cue being pre-interviewed. Took me awhile to figure out it was LIVE, duh. Luckily, the host was very kind to me. I missed some of Zazz's comments because I turned down the sound when I got ready to dial in. It should be on replay tomorrow here:

www.illustrial.net...


edit on 19-1-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


Thanks for the info, I missed the show live. I'm just not a night person, but rather, a night'night person.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 04:10 PM
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It is interesting how the governments explanations develop has time goes by. It is true some of these UFOs are certainly the result of advanced technology and others are certainly not. Why would the USAF try to shoot at UFOS in the 1950s if all of them were their own technology? What about ancient UFO sightings? The UFO applies abilities which have been consisted since the modern UFO era began, our technology has developed at a pace and now can it be described as similar to what we call UFOs. Assuming of course the technology didn't originally come from the UFO in the first place.

The intelligence community and its secrets are like an onion skin, layer upon layer one hand not knowing what the other hand is doing, due to compartmentalization of intelligence programs and projects.

Just think about it for a moment, the jet engine was developed in the 1940s, do you really think the military hasn't advanced beyond that? The government always try to find an explanation to give to the public, which fits in with what they already know or have access to so they can except what they are being told.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 05:20 PM
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Perception management is a term originated by the US military. The US Department of Defense (DOD) gives this definition:

Actions to convey and/or deny selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning as well as to intelligence systems and leaders at all to influence official estimates, ultimately resulting in foreign behaviors and official actions favorable to the originator's objectives. In various ways, perception management combines truth projection, operations security, cover and deception, and psychological operations.[1]
en.wikipedia.org...



The US government already has checks in place to dissuade perception management conducted by the state towards domestic populations, such as the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which "forbids the domestic dissemination of U.S. Government authored or developed propaganda... deliberately designed to influence public opinion or policy".[9]
en.wikipedia.org...


Did Richard Doty and the Air Force Office of Special Investigations break the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948 by disseminating fake documents to Paul Bennewitz?


The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2013 amended the Smith–Mundt Act and the Foreign Relations Authorization Act of 1987, allowing for materials produced by the State Department and the Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG) to be released within U.S. borders and striking down a long-time ban on the dissemination of propaganda in the United States.[1][2]
en.wikipedia.org...


Now that it's legal for the government to screw with it's own citizens, will the waters of ufology become even more muddy?





posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 05:36 PM
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freelance_zenarchist

Yes, I do believe you got some counter-mojo working, Free-Zen. Gotta run, but look forward to digging in later.


It also brings to mind some statements that Michael Aquino (Temple of Set, MindWar) has made here at ATS that might work into the discussion as per Smith-Mundt.


edit on 19-1-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 


Thanks much for the information Issac. You are a true scholar!
I may have an early edition or perhaps it’s in later of the book or I just missed it.

I seem to think Vallee is the straight man in this disinformation plot.

The guy who exposes, through his intellection and sober reasoning, the absurdity of the people in this book he goes around mocking: Lear, Cooper, and many others.

All after the crazy theories come out from the disinformation given to Bennewitz and Moore

It’s just too neat for me.

Though I could be wrong and Vallee may just a smart guy, then again I don’t know because in Mirage Men his buddy J Hynek brought Bennewitz a computer by order of the Air force.


edit on 19-1-2014 by Willtell because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by freelance_zenarchist
 





I thought about the family doing a lawsuit.

Of course they would loose but I think they would get a lot of sympathy



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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The Smith-Mundt Act doesn't apply to the military, only to the State Department.

The military does have its own ban on propaganda, 10 USC 2241a. I'm not certain that provision existed back in the early 80s, but even if it did I don't think what they did would qualify as propaganda. The definitions matter.

Also, the aforementioned provision creates room or already acknowledges there are exceptions to the ban ("... not otherwise specifically authorized by law").

And if all else fails, they can just claim "national security" and that'll be the end of it.



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 07:35 PM
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The GUT
He was also receptive to the point that Kit, Hal, etc. wouldn't enjoy continued contracts/security clearances if they were working against the gubmint in trying to force some disclosure.

This is an important point that people seem to pass over a bit too easily. Green's motivation re: Serpo.
- If you believe they created Serpo then how do you explain continued high level access for many years?
- No way Green is trying to force disclosure. That agenda would lead to getting fired either for craziness believing in UFOs or subversion. However that is the story Green himself put out.
- Personal fame and money on the UFO circut? At risk of losing great government job, very doubtful.
- If you believe Serpo is legit it's the same problem, how does Green keep high level access? He helped expose a massive government cover up.

What is a reasonable reason for Green to get behind the Serpo story without the whole thing being a disinfo Op?



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 04:17 AM
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vbstrvct
Bosley sounds like a nice guy but my suspicion is that if he's not knowingly spreading disinformation, then he is at least unknowingly spreading it.

I already talked about this before: I believe the gatekeepers of the truth - whatever it may be - disinform their own people. Just because people like Doty or Bosley are in the AFOSI, or other intelligence agencies, doesn't mean they know everything an organization, or "the government," knows. Whatever the truth may be it's not only highly classified but also on strict need-to-know basis. So what people like Doty or Bosley think they know, or believe, I think it's either disinformation or myths and lore passed down from agents to agents.

That's why I don't adhere to the view that suggests that because someone is/was a government agent and is talking about UFOs, they necessarily know what they're talking about, or are purposely spreading disinformation and part of the cover up. There is a middle ground.


Sorry, not been around much for a few days. Yeah I think what you say there makes a lot of sense. It seems like it'd be a normal kind of thing for there to be disinfo spread around even inside the military and other agencies, etc, as an extra level of security. And I like what you say at the end too, it's something I don't often think about, that people from the government might not actually have an agenda sometimes and just be telling the truth as they see it. I guess it's kind of rare but am sure it happens from time to time.



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 10:05 AM
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I'm trusting that someone will announce when the ATS show discussing things will be online. I'm struggling to keep up, but the connections discussed here are so complex, we're not talking about network of spider webs- it sounds more like molecular biology to me.

I hope someone will come up with some charts for folks like me who more easily process information via visual aids!



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by noeltrotsky
 


I think Green and Puthoff where in it for the psychological and occultic ramifications of the disinformation scheme on the UFO community.

That’s their game

Its clear Doty was still working for AFOSI after he retired( read Mirage Men)

So just because a guy is retired from these agencies doest mean they aren’t still working for them.



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 11:08 AM
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CardDown
the connections discussed here are so complex, we're not talking about network of spider webs- it sounds more like molecular biology to me.

I hope someone will come up with some charts for folks like me who more easily process information via visual aids!


Mmm. That reminds me. There used to be a social mapping website that you could input a name or names and open source material (e.g. discussions on websites) would be used to generate a bubble chart mapping the connections between various people and the apparent strength of those connections.

I know there are several websites like that now, but can't remember the name of the one I used to use.



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 11:22 AM
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DARPA put out a call fairly recently that is pretty clear on the objectives they are seeking--and why--in the following research project. DARPA was also clear they weren't looking for the same ol', same' ol' and were looking to further what's already known about influencing and controlling societal segments.

This makes sense because while social engineering and it's related modalities have come a long way, the techniques only work to a certain degree and on a certain percentage of society.

We can see here at our very own ATS that you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. The "un-fooled" as it were, presents the biggest problem, say,if you are trying to occupy and "democratize" various Middle Eastern nations.

What's also interesting is that these studies are speaking more and more of Homeland Security and problems of "radicalization" here in the U.S.

Fisrt we'll take alook at the DARPA call for submissions, then we'll dig a little deeper into the TIGER study.


DARPA is soliciting innovative research proposals in the areas of (1) quantitative analysis of narratives, (2) understanding the effects narratives have on human psychology and its affiliated neurobiology, and (3) modeling, simulating, and sensing-especially in stand-off modalities-these narrative influences. Proposers to this effort will be expected to revolutionize the study of narratives and narrative influence by advancing narrative analysis and neuroscience so as to create new narrative influence sensors, doubling status quo capacity to forecast narrative influence.

www.fbo.gov...



"Stories exert a powerful influence on human thoughts and behavior. They consolidate memory, shape emotions, cue heuristics and biases in judgment, influence in-group/out-group distinctions, and may affect the fundamental contents of personal identity.

It comes as no surprise that these influences make stories highly relevant to vexing security challenges such as radicalization, violent social mobilization, insurgency and terrorism, and conflict prevention and resolution. Therefore, understanding the role stories play in a security context is a matter of great import and some urgency," DARPA stated. "Ascertaining exactly what function stories enact, and by what mechanisms they do so, is a necessity if we are to effectively analyze the security phenomena shaped by stories. Doing this in a scientifically respectable manner requires a working theory of narratives, an understanding of what role narratives play in security contexts, and examination of how to best analyze stories-decomposing them and their psychological impact systematically."


According to DARPA, STORyNET has three goals:


1. To survey narrative theories. These empirically informed theories should tell us something about the nature of stories: what is a story? What are its moving parts? Is there a list of necessary and sufficient conditions it takes for a stimulus to be considered a story instead of something else? Does the structure and function of stories vary considerably across cultural contexts or is there a universal theory of story?

2. To better understand the role of narrative in security contexts. What role do stories play in influencing political violence and to what extent? What function do narratives serve in the process of political radicalization and how do they influence a person or group's choice of means (such as violence) to achieve political ends? How do stories influence bystanders' response to conflict? Is it possible to measure how attitudes salient to security issues are shaped by stories?

3. To survey the state of the art in narrative analysis and decomposition tools. How can we take stories and make them quantitatively analyzable in a rigorous, transparent and repeatable fashion? What analytic approaches or tools best establish a framework for the scientific study of the psychological and neurobiological impact of stories on people? Are particular approaches or tools better than others for understanding how stories propagate in a system so as to influence behavior?

www.networkworld.com...


Now back to TIGER of which, we'll remember, Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green was Chair. All Bolding mine.


The label “cognitive” in the title and elsewhere in this report is used in the broad sense. Unless otherwise noted, it refers to the cognitive sciences in general and comprises psychological and physiological processes underlying human information processing, emotion, motivation, social influence, and development. It includes contributions from all directly related disciplines, including the behavioral and social sciences, neurogenetics, proteomics, philosophy, mathematics, computer science, and linguistics.




The technology being applied to determine psychological state could even be derived from an incomplete model of brain function as long as it had sufficient predictive power to accomplish the desired goal. For instance, one would not need a complete model of brain function to construct a brain–computer interface that could improve the self-piloting capabilities of unmanned air vehicles. But the tolerance for error will be much less if a technology is used to determine whether an individual is lying about an act of treason, because the consequences of an error will be greater.

The committee believes that it is critical to fully understand the relationship between neurophysiological markers and actual mental states when the application is the detection of deception..

…Mind reading typically refers to the capacity (imparted by an external mechanism—that is, some form of technology) to determine precisely what an individual is thinking or intending, whether or not the individual is willing to communicate that state of mind. As discussed below, to “read” minds scientists must understand how minds really work to come up with a technology that is of real use, and there are several formidable barriers to…

Other questions raised by controlling the mind: How can we make people trust us more? What if we could help the brain to remove fear or pain? Is there a way to make the enemy obey our commands?

…However, the types of experiments being done may be more telling than the type of equipment needed. The same equipment might be needed for medical and for disruptive neuropsychopharmacological experiments. It could be asked, What types of experiments are being done?

How are the experiments being controlled and monitored, and why were they chosen? How would human experimentation be conducted outside accepted informed-consent limits?

www.nap.edu...



In developing the methodology, the committee considered the end user (analysts and predictors of the behaviors of individuals and groups), the data available to them, the desired output, and the unique aspects (if relevant) of neuroscience research. Intelligence analysts were available for consultation throughout the project in order to ensure that the methodology was realistically applied, given the limitations of the data sets.


The broader range of various UFO "communities" & issues not only provide convenient test beds, but also contain ready made modalities that can be studied. As an aside before we look at the next item, we'll make brief mention of another so-called Aviary member, Col. John B. Alexander.

Col. Alexander pretty much puts his kibosh on the notion that Alien Abductions are real. He sees it as a mental phenomenon. It's interesting that he also put together at least one conference on the subject and has many contacts within that subset of ufology. He and Dr. Green are also involved in a number of Homeland Security issues/projects to include what we often refer to as the military-industrial complex. Okay, back to TIGER and Alien Abductions:


An important issue for cognitive neuroscientists concerns efforts to determine whether a person is reporting a true experience or one that is false but believed. In the last decade, there have been innumerable research efforts designed to distinguish true from false memories.

Earlier work examining behavioral differences between true and false memories revealed that group differences were sometimes found (for example, more sensory details in true-memory reports) (Schooler et al., 1986). However, the statistical group differences did not enable reliable classification of any particular memory report as to its authenticity.

Some work with neuroimaging has attempted to locate differences in the brain that might reveal something about true and false memories. The goal of much of the work has been to demonstrate that true and false memories have different neural signatures...

The allure of such research has been so great that considerable effort is likely to be devoted in the future to the neurophysiology of false memory. Despite some progress, we are far from being able to use neuroimaging techniques to tell us about the veracity of particular memories…

"The allure of such research has been so great...," is a very telling statement and the word "allure" is a word of exceptional emphasis.


…A notable exception can be found in the work of Okado and Stark (2005), who examined true and false memories in the context of a misinformation experiment and thus studied richer false memories. Misinformation studies show how readily memory can become skewed when people are fed misinformation…

Richard McNally and his collaborators (McNally, 2003) studied people who had very rich, although likely false, memories of alien abduction have been studied. One study explored whether people who believe they have been abducted exhibit heightened physiological reactivity (heart rate and skin conductance) that occurs commonly in patients who have posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) when they think about their traumas.

The “abductees” studied had experienced apparent sleep paralysis and hypnopompic hallucinations, which are vivid dreamlike hallucinations that occur as one is waking up, such as seeing figures hovering near their beds. Most had recovered memories with such techniques as guided imagery and hypnosis. Some of the recovered memories involved sexual intercourse with aliens or having sperm extracted for breeding purposes. Their physiological reactions were similar to those seen in PTSD patients who listen to audiotaped scripts of their traumas. Thus, expressed emotion is no guarantee that a memory is true.



The TIGER study is suggestive. The quoted material from Gus Russo's Is Uncle Sam a Closet Ufologist? (remember that?) is suggestive. The Core Story tale along with Vallee's comments in Forbidden Science, Journal II is suggestive. Valle's and Green's friendship along with an interest in memes, modern myth, manipulating the "control system," and internet philosophy--again, suggestive. Those things aren't only suggestive, they "agree." It's that very "agreement" which seems to me to indicate that "social engineering" is a frontrunner for what SERPO was really about.

If this subject interests anyone, there's just no way to get around doing A LOT of reading. And not just popularized works like the most excellent & important books of Greg Bishop's Project Beta and Mark Pilkington's Mirage Men. I believe that it's also extremely important to take a hard look at the primary character's professional and personal interests in seeking to determine what they might be up to.

I submit that to know--and understand--me, you would have to understand my passion for my own profession and how that influences my totality often even down to my social life. I propose that doing so is an important aspect to unraveling this puzzle as well.



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by IsaacKoi
 

There is one that was actually done on Dr. Green, but I can't remember where it can be found. Ryan Dube of Reality Uncovered and TopSecretWriters.com may have produced and sent it to me at one point.

CardDown has made an excellent suggestion, but I'm at a loss right now on how to go about it. I am working on a comprehensive timeline which will partially fulfill that goal. (I'll be asking for some help on that!)



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by noeltrotsky
 

I'm practically certain the "personal fame and money on the UFO circuit" can be excluded as one of the motivations for people like Kit Green.

Regarding the questions you raise about apparent contradictions with these people continuing to have their security clearances and high level access, and throwing back to you the "important point that people seem to pass over a bit too easily," is the fact that we actually know of someone that asked for Kit Green's clearances to be revoked.

That person so happened to have been the Director of Security, Counterintelligence and Special Program Oversight for the Air Force. The same Air Force that, according to Kit Green, wouldn't talk to him and his people about UFOs.

But apparently no one else thinks that's an "important point."



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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vbstrvct
reply to post by noeltrotsky
 

I'm practically certain the "personal fame and money on the UFO circuit" can be excluded as one of the motivations for people like Kit Green.

While Doty might step outside guidlines and seek a buck or two, the logic that Kit Green wouldn't is pretty sound I think.


...is the fact that we actually know of someone that asked for Kit Green's clearances to be revoked.

That person so happened to have been the Director of Security, Counterintelligence and Special Program Oversight for the Air Force. The same Air Force that, according to Kit Green, wouldn't talk to him and his people about UFOs.

But apparently no one else thinks that's an "important point."


Apparently the Director of Security, Counterintelligence and Special Program Oversight was overruled---or placated. Which might or might not be an important point. A point to be considered nonetheless, I would agree.

Can you elaborate on that aspect?

If you refer to Col. Hennesy and the following StarPod article, then I think the reason Hennesy was pissed is clear and had more to do with Doty first, then the claim allegedly made by Green that Doty did NOT fail the lie detector test as originally asserted.

www.starpod.us...

As such it would seem to have no bearing on noeltrotsky's argument.


edit on 20-1-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 12:45 PM
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IsaacKoi: There used to be a social mapping website that you could input a name or names…


That sounds like the one I remember and also can't locate. I found it by accident after searching for Aviary material. As I recall, it had a name like Gold Map or something like that. I've gone through my poorly arranged bookmarks and can't find it, or by searching again. If anyone remembers it, maybe it could be unearthed in cached form.



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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This is some good stuff. I think we've really stumbled upon *something* here, although I can't say for certain what it is.



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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The GUT
If you refer to Col. Hennesy and the following StarPod article, then I think the reason Hennesy was pissed is clear and had more to do with Doty first, then the claim allegedly made by Green that Doty did NOT fail the lie detector test as originally asserted. As such it would seem to have no bearing on noeltrotsky's argument.

I don't understand why you interpret my post as having no bearing on noeltrotsky's argument. First, I didn't even argue he was wrong or right on anything he wrote.

Second, this is a thread about mirage men, the book/movie and the concept in general, particularly as it pertains to the UFO field, and in his post noeltrotsky raised several points and made several observations, some of which had to do with security clearances and "important points" that are overlooked.

I gave an example of what I think is an overlooked point and and has to do with security clearances. Not only that, but an interaction between one of the persons of interest in Mirage Men and the Director of Security, Counterintelligence and Special Program Oversight of the Air Force.

If my post is of no relevance to this discussion then I don't know what is.



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