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Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

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posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 






Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Im looking at it in the perspective of the Melchizedeks; they were as an 'order' never solid matter. Only one is percieved as being such, Machiventa 'The Priest of Salem'
that lived for 370 years. Would you call this at all reasonable or a myth?
Its stated in the bible as being FACT.


Well, I think most people would say, that living for 370 years, was most likely a myth. And they would probably say the same thing, in regards to him not being solid matter. Just a hunch lol




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Evidence exists in the Gnostic Texts; which are have been totally disregarded.


Finally where getting somewhere.

This is what I’ve been saying all along, in that evidence does exist. And the Gnostic texts, are a big part of the accumulative evidence IMO…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
If I picked up a napkin in BuckStars and was written "KILLROY WAS HERE" my ears would have pricked.


Why… is Killroy a friend of yours lol…don’t answer that…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Thats just another name Im called; (as a composit being) here we go again all credibility lost (thanks Templeman for flushing US out). Come on its always been me.


Ok, it’s always been you, and you’re the same poster/entity, but with just 2 different names. One just recently revealed, for reasons unknown…

So no one, else has high jacked your account…Great…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Thanks for asking BTW and again, what does "JOECROFT" mean, you have told it before...


My handle name, which I chose…means…

“God shall increase the fold”



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I asked simply; it was 17 years ago and asked about a moniker. I was concidering "Tarzana" and was told in no uncertain terms the name had to be Veteran Human Being. I think 'Blue Resonant Human' had something to do with this (that is another story). The idea behind the name was that I have been encarnated before as 'something' so, at moment of birth in stubborness must accept from day one I am a veteran of the human specie.


Ok, you simply asked…that covers the why part…

But who did you ask, about receiving a moniker…?

This is confusing…I was asking, who gave you the name “Resonant ONE” but now your saying your handle name, was given to you as well…

So who told you, in no uncertain terms, that your name had to be “Veteran Human Being”…?

And assuming it wasn’t the same entity. Who gave you the name “Resonant ONE”…?


- JC


edit on 20-1-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


That great and terrible time is described as the Day of the Lord and that shall be the day of his return . Joel 2:28-32 In Matthew chapter 24 verse 29 --31 is that time . The point being after the 3 1/2 year Tribulation and before the Wrath .



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 11:03 PM
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Are we willing to concede that there is real proof that Pontius Pilate existed? How about Herod Agrippa? Caiaphas? John the Baptist?



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by Spectral Norm
 


You are exercising in futility . Your evidence will never meet their criteria .Bronze plates were found in ruins of a burned out library in Egypt that the inscriptions confirmed the Red Sea Crossing and drowning of the Egyptian army with of course the Egyptian twist as to what happened . The translations were recently revealed to the world . And these same people would deny that evidence also .



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:16 AM
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SimonPeter
reply to post by Spectral Norm
 


You are exercising in futility . Your evidence will never meet their criteria .Bronze plates were found in ruins of a burned out library in Egypt that the inscriptions confirmed the Red Sea Crossing and drowning of the Egyptian army with of course the Egyptian twist as to what happened . The translations were recently revealed to the world . And these same people would deny that evidence also .


Not to mention the quotes from Manetho regarding the Hyksos as well as Osarseph, which have been known since ancient times.

I would call it an exercise in combating the marginalization of criteria for historical authenticity. Now, I realize that my previous post was something of a red herring, but it serves to amplify my point, which is this: The subtext of the question posed in this thread is: is there any evidence for a historical Jesus provided that we reject out of hand any ancient text that mentions him?



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by Spectral Norm
 

What do either of them have to do with the J man?

I like the way SimonPeter is quick to point out that the bronze plates describing the red sea crossing has an "egyption twist".

Segal's law and all that.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 12:06 PM
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daskakik
reply to post by Spectral Norm
 

What do either of them have to do with the J man?


They tend to illustrate that there is a double standard in play with respect to the historicity of Jesus.



I like the way SimonPeter is quick to point out that the bronze plates describing the red sea crossing has an "egyption twist".

Segal's law and all that.


Are you intending to imply that if there exist conflicting accounts of a purportedly historical event, then this may be taken as evidence that the event in question never occurred?



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by Spectral Norm
 


The Egyptians admitted that the event did happen and the plagues also but they blame a destroyer planet somewhat like the Sumerians that was to blame for the plagues and the raised plateau in the Red Sea to be uncovered for the Jews to escape and then once again close . They could not acknowledge the God of Moses . This was in a recently released article I saw . Also the biblical researcher Ron Wyatt's team found horse bones and ancient Chariot wheels with gold trim on the bottom in a fragile state and somewhat encrusted with sea life . The event undeniably happened .



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


Could you possibly link up that release of the translations and bronze plates please.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 01:23 PM
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Spectral Norm
They tend to illustrate that there is a double standard in play with respect to the historicity of Jesus.

Not sure what you mean by double standard.


Are you intending to imply that if there exist conflicting accounts of a purportedly historical event, then this may be taken as evidence that the event in question never occurred?

I'm implying that conflicting accounts shows that people are prone to embellishing and that you can't be sure which one, if either, is the truth.

A story using such an event as a backdrop is still fiction.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 


I sent you a private message with what I have on the Kolbrin Bible .



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 01:59 PM
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Spectral Norm
Are we willing to concede that there is real proof that Pontius Pilate existed? How about Herod Agrippa? Caiaphas? John the Baptist?



Pontius Pilate was Scottish.


edit on 21-1-2014 by DrunkYogi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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daskakik
Not sure what you mean by double standard.


A double standard is a colloquial English expression, coined, I believe, in the early 1950's, which describes a situation wherein different sets of criteria are applied to similar situations.



I'm implying that conflicting accounts shows that people are prone to embellishing and that you can't be sure which one, if either, is the truth.

A story using such an event as a backdrop is still fiction.


Is it your view, then, regarding the Exodus, that something happened, however, since we cannot trust any accounts or sources, we can say no more than that? And if so, are there any accounts of historical events, so-called, that could be considered trustworthy? Or is historiography merely a useless and irrelevant endeavor?



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 



JoecroftThis is what I’ve been saying all along, in that evidence does exist. And the Gnostic texts, are a big part of the accumulative evidence IMO.


VHB
If I picked up a napkin in BuckStars and was written "KILLROY WAS HERE" my ears would have pricked.



JoecroftWhy… is Killroy a friend of yours lol…don’t answer that.


Killroy I never knew personally only his WW2 exploits. "KILLJOY" on the hand I know very well.


VHB
Thats just another name Im called; (as a composit being) here we go again all credibility lost (thanks Templeman for flushing US out). Come on its always been me.



JoecroftOk, it’s always been you, and you’re the same poster/entity, but with just 2 different names. One just recently revealed, for reasons unknown…
So no one, else has high jacked your account…Great…


The second name is my birth name, its meaning is carved up into syllables and in so doing means The.RES.A is all (dictionary time)


VHB
Thanks for asking BTW and again, what does "JOECROFT" mean, you have told it before.



JoecroftMy handle name, which I chose…means…
“God shall increase the fold”

This is a wonderful name; and you chose it all by yourself with no help?


VHB
I asked simply; it was 17 years ago and asked about a moniker. I was concidering "Tarzana" and was told in no uncertain terms the name had to be Veteran Human Being. I think 'Blue Resonant Human' had something to do with this (that is another story). The idea behind the name was that I have been encarnated before as 'something' so, at moment of birth in stubborness must accept from day one I am a veteran of the human specie.



JoecroftOk, you simply asked…that covers the why part…
But who did you ask, about receiving a moniker…? This is confusing…I was asking, who gave you the name “Resonant ONE” but now your saying your handle name, was given to you as well. So who told you, in no uncertain terms, that your name had to be “Veteran Human Being"?


Before I realized I was a telepath, or what the heck I thought I was doing in becoming a human? (Belly LAUGHER and FRESH not rotten tomatoes are allowed). I had no idea but IT was very specific. Websters unabridged describes these individual syllables in my birth name. Everything about your path is hidden your names, given at birth or picked as an identifier; as they are numbers as well holding great meaning.


edit on 21-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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DrunkYogi

Spectral Norm
Are we willing to concede that there is real proof that Pontius Pilate existed? How about Herod Agrippa? Caiaphas? John the Baptist?




DrunkYogiPontius Pilate was Scottish.


His Christian converted wife convinced him to reincarnate as "William Wallace".
edit on 21-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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Spectral Norm
A double standard is a colloquial English expression, coined, I believe, in the early 1950's, which describes a situation wherein different sets of criteria are applied to similar situations.

I know what double standard means. I was asking what makes you think one exists in regards to Jesus and, who is the other standard being applied to?


Is it your view, then, regarding the Exodus, that something happened, however, since we cannot trust any accounts or sources, we can say no more than that?

We can say more but we should remember that it isn't certain.


And if so, are there any accounts of historical events, so-called, that could be considered trustworthy?

That would depend on the documentation and what is being claimed.


Or is historiography merely a useless and irrelevant endeavor?

Honestly, I think it is useless and irrelevant, unless your're a history buff, even if you could get all the facts in order.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 03:26 PM
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vethumanbeing
DrunkYogi

Spectral Norm
Are we willing to concede that there is real proof that Pontius Pilate existed? How about Herod Agrippa? Caiaphas? John the Baptist?




DrunkYogiPontius Pilate was Scottish.


His Christian converted wife convinced him to reincarnate as "William Wallace".
edit on 21-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)


LOL.

Check out the Pilate Stone.

www.sacredconnections.co.uk...



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 04:20 PM
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DrunkYogi
veteranhumanbeing
DrunkYogi
Spectral Norm


Spectral NormAre we willing to concede that there is real proof that Pontius Pilate existed? How about Herod Agrippa? Caiaphas? John the Baptist?



DrunkYogiPontius Pilate was Scottish.



VHBHis Christian converted wife convinced him to reincarnate as "William Wallace.



DrunkYogiLOL.Check out the Pilate Stone.
www.sacredconnections.co.uk...


I will! (what I say in jest sometimes turns out to be oddly true).
edit on 21-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 





Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The second name is my birth name, its meaning is carved up into syllables and in so doing means The.RES.A is all (dictionary time)


That’s an amazing birth name. Reminds of the plains Indians, who would name their children, after their characteristics. Like “Running Tiger”, or “Eagle Eyes”, or “Dances with wolves” etc…

Your three syllables, would produce the following…

Res = A thing… matter

On = position of contact with another object

Ate = past of eat

Or…

Ate = a Greek goddess personifying foolhardy and ruinous impulse…


Good luck, with that last one lol


Not sure what the syllables are meant to signify, when considered separately…

Definition of Resonate…



To continue to produce a loud, clear, deep sound for a long time
To have particular meaning or importance for someone : to affect or appeal to someone in a personal or emotional way


So perhaps you are One, who brings meaning, that is important and will resonate (connect) with others.



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
This is a wonderful name; and you chose it all by yourself with no help?


Thanks…

Well, there was no voice saying, “in no uncertain terms your name (handle name for ATS) must be “X” etc…

And this may sound ridiculous, but when I chose it, I only found out the meaning of it, later on! (braces for impact, from rotten tomatoes)…so maybe in the grand scheme of things…I did get some help….



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Before I realized I was a telepath, or what the heck I thought I was doing in becoming a human? (Belly LAUGHER and FRESH not rotten tomatoes are allowed).


I’ll try to keep a straight face on this one. Reading between the lines it seems, to me at least, that you may have received your (ATS) handle name, via telepathic input.

And I gota ask…how did you become human…? And what were you before…?



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I had no idea but IT was very specific. Websters unabridged describes these individual syllables in my birth name. Everything about your path is hidden your names, given at birth or picked as an identifier; as they are numbers as well holding great meaning.


So there’s numbers in both your names. I can understand why you’ve been given a special birth name, but not so sure as to why you’ve been given a specific handle name, for ATS…?

And how are you deriving these numbers from both your names? I’m curious, because I’d like to find out the mathematical numbers associated with my own handle name, if that’s possible…?


- JC



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 06:31 PM
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daskakik
I know what double standard means. I was asking what makes you think one exists in regards to Jesus and, who is the other standard being applied to?


Take, for example, Herod Agrippa. We have hundreds of ancient manuscripts referring to the man, and no one seems to doubt that he existed. We also have hundreds of ancients manuscripts referring to Jesus, but no one, except possibly the Christian faithful, wants to believe that he existed.



We can say more but we should remember that it isn't certain.


What is certain? What are the criteria for certainty? Does there exist any objective foundation for epistemology, particularly with regard to history?



That would depend on the documentation and what is being claimed.


That seems like a clever way of dodging the question I posed.



Honestly, I think it is useless and irrelevant, unless your're a history buff, even if you could get all the facts in order.


Now we come to the heart of the matter, that is, the attitude that there is no point in studying the past because you will never get it right. And if you think you have it right, I will simply reject any evidence you might present on the basis that it is biased and fictionalized. And you are powerless to demonstrate otherwise. I disagree with this viewpoint. I think that the past has much to say to us. But then, why should anyone give a damn what I think?



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