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Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

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posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


MamaJ, I've been reading and participating in this post since it started as well, I have indeed read your positioning statements which I why I was so surprised by your comments in the post I referenced that I responded to you personally on what seemed to be contradictory.

Whether Jesus "had a soul or not" seems completely irrelevant to the discussion of evidence for his existence. Whether we use your personal criteria for existence or not. Even if we could arrive at consensus about what a soul is or could be or how we would observe it ... how would that add or detract from the evidence? Questions about the soul of Jesus would speak to the quality of his existence perhaps, not the evidence for it.

You brought up "bias" and suggested that "bias" was what kept people from believing in historical Jesus. As much as I hate to do it, here's what you said directly:


MamaJ
For the seeker who is biased already, he will seek to prove himself right. You won't see the entity anywhere much less believe all these accounts are him. It's all fabricated.


I addressed bias because you clearly stated in your quoted post that anyone who reviews the evidence and finds none for historical Jesus is merely "biased." As opposed to open and honest? Pish-posh.


We're all biased and have fallen short of the glory of Rationality no?

I don't think one can say that position is completely open toward considering evidence over faith.

Further, how does adding a question about the soul of Jesus [sic] add to a discussion about physical evidence?
edit on 17Sun, 12 Jan 2014 17:09:00 -060014p052014166 by Gryphon66 because: added small comment




posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by Murgatroid
 



Hey Wild, hope you are well...

MamaJ's post bears repeating (THX MamaJ...):


Hi, Murgatroid.
I'm afraid it seems that you have taken me for an atheist. Not true. I am agnostic. Firmly; but, I am beginning to understand how 'paranormal' things can happen (been studying quantum mechanics and the application to consciousness.)

MamaJ and I understand one another pretty well.

But, thanks for your concern and well-wishes.



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 


Joecroft I wasfollowing your discussion with MamaJ regarding Melchizedek, and him potentially being a reincarnation of Jesus.
Just wondering what you make of the Gnostic text “Melchizedek”?, because in my reply to MamaJ, on my “Melchizedek Seal thread”, I stated that the text did appear, to hint towards this idea, that Melchizedek was somehow Jesus.


Nice thread you have there and for whatever reason this information is coming across on this one. NagHammati Library 'James M. Robertson' as editor says this , Melchiszedek, (IX,I) is about the apocalypse of the Melchizedek in three parts one; speaking to Jesus christ, a prophecy of the ministery,resurrection, and death. The second is is the undertaking of ritualisic actions; or a cult that writes down the prayers or invocations "Holy are you". The third was transporting the idea of Melchizedek into a future (the symbolism in the crucifixion). Those that are at all interested Ibid NagHammadi, pgs 438-439 Chapter: Melchizedek. So to your question, is/was Machiventa Melchizedek Jesus?

The 'ideaform' of that Order was stepped down in frequency as a version human matter (obviously flawed). No fully 9 dimentional creature had ever been created before to actually walk as a human and NOT a demi-God, sort of a "from scratch" personality. If you understand 'Jerusem' to be the place of origination, or the seat/home of the off planet School of the Melchizedeks; you will understand the reference in the bible to "Melchizedek; the priest of salem 'Jerusalem' (an old myth applies here). Id say why not; no other expaination applies as to this Being showing up in this time frame; my problem is who was he speaking to? Not Abraham. If you read this book from the NagHammadi, it adequately explains why the crucifiction was necessary (which is one of my HUGE pet peeves).


JoecroftAccording to those ancient accounts of Melchizedek, he just kind of appears as a fully grown, 3 year old kid. And in regards to this 9 dimensional being, aspect of Jesus, it’s curious how there are many accounts, in the Gnostic texts, of Jesus not being completely physical in body.


Why would he have to be at all times? I know where he was in the 20 years of silence; off planet and also with his Godfather physically traveling in the Orient. Why would a disapearance of this kind be so unusual? Leonardo DaVinci has 2 seriously missing years as well as a grown human; who would miss them anyway (someone obviously did).


Joecroft It’s almost as if he had the ability to go in and out, of his physical and spiritual body. The accounts are similar to Jesus resurrection stories in the NT, where Jesus has the apparent ability to walk through walls etc… except these Gnostic accounts, are stories, which talk about events in Jesus life, that preceded the resurrection story.


If you look at the resurrection story; Im fairly certain the body of 'Christ' was removed to Joseph of Aramethieas Family crypt/tomb. Not entombed within his own families down the road a peice. This man, if fully 9D would have the ability to walk through walls resurrect the dead, turn water into wine, make fishes and loaves of bread out of nothing but a thoughtform. He could have been the Christ of all ages with a LasVegas act (much more convincing than Dynamo, Blaine or Angel) as it was not illusion (or so said by others).


JoecroftThere’s also the “Gospel of Judas” accounts, where one minute Jesus is said to appear as a child etc…although maybe in this latter case, it’s not meant to be taken literally and is a coded metaphor, for something else.- JC


Oh, you know I am a big 'metaphor' fan, havent looked at Judas.
edit on 12-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 06:50 PM
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daskakik
Murgatroid


daskakik Since WHEN has history ever spoken the truth?


MurgatroidNever, including this Jesus thing.


Do not understand the 'HIStory' thing "HERSTORY" might tell another more accurate tale.
edit on 12-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 





Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Nice thread you have there and for whatever reason this information is coming across on this one.


Thanks…you mean, the recent one, or the “Melchizedek Seal Thread”?

I’m here because you and MamaJ, were talking the possibility of Jesus being a reincarnation of Melchizedek on this thread…and the same topic was also being discussed on my other, “Melchizedek Seal Thread”…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
NagHammati Library 'James M. Robertson' as editor says this , Melchiszedek, (IX,I) is about the apocalypse of the Melchizedek in three parts one; speaking to Jesus christ, a prophecy of the ministery,resurrection, and death.

The second is is the undertaking of ritualisic actions; or a cult that writes down the prayers or invocations "Holy are you".

The third was transporting the idea of Melchizedek into a future (the symbolism in the crucifixion). Those that are at all interested Ibid NagHammadi, pgs 438-439 Chapter: Melchizedek.


Thanks for the 'James M. Robertson' breakdown, but I was wondering what your thoughts are, about the Melchizedek text, unless your position mirrors that of Mr. Robertson…? In which case, you can put your feet up and relax lol



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
So to your question, is/was Machiventa Melchizedek Jesus?


Yeah, and what do you make of my original post to MamaJ on my other thread…

Here’s roughly what I posted, in that post…

****
The Gnostic text “Melchizedek” is interesting, because it starts with the sentence “Jesus Christ, the Son of God”…which seems like a strange way to start a book, about “Melchizedek”…



... which will happen in his name. Furthermore, they will say of him that he is unbegotten, though he has been begotten, (that) he does not eat, even though he eats, (that) he does not drink, even though he drinks, (that) he is uncircumcised, though he has been circumcised, (that) he is unfleshly, though he has come in the flesh, (that) he did not come to suffering, he came to suffering, (that) he did not rise from the dead, he arose from the dead.


And above, from “Melchizedek” again, the above paragraph is clearly talking about Jesus, but then the very next paragraph continues…



But all the tribes and all the peoples will speak the truth who are receiving from you yourself, O Melchizedek, Holy One, High-Priest, the perfect hope and the gifts of life.


Which appears to suggest that Jesus is! really Melchizedek.

And of course Jesus is also referred to as the Holy one, and along with “prince of peace” and “King of righteousness” they are names which are shared by both Jesus and Melchizedek…

****

So what do think…coincidence…?



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The 'ideaform' of that Order was stepped down in frequency as a version human matter (obviously flawed). No fully 9 dimentional creature had ever been created before.


I see…

Well, a 9 dimensional being would certainly fit some of those Gnostic accounts of Jesus, along with the NT accounts of him appearing to the disciples, after the resurrection…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
This man, if fully 9D would have the ability to walk through walls reserrect the dead, turn water into wine, make fishes and loaves of bread out of nothing.


So I take it you don’t lean towards a metaphoric explanation, of Jesus turning water to wine, walking on water, feeding the 5 thousand, with fish and bread etc…?



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Oh, you know I am a big 'metaphor' fan, havent looked at Judas.


Really…I would never have guessed lol


PS – Happy Neeeeeewwwwww Year…


- JC



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 09:12 PM
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Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 


Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Nice thread you have there and for whatever reason this information is coming across on this one.



Joecroft
Thanks…you mean, the recent one, or the “Melchizedek Seal Thread"


Solomons seal I suppose the prior one (and you have not looked at the garnet as the explaination of the triangulation of 'star shapes' most involved and complicated of all crystal formations).


vethumanbeing
NagHammati Library 'James M. Robertson' as editor says this , Melchiszedek, (IX,I) is about the apocalypse of the Melchizedek in three parts one; speaking to Jesus christ, a prophecy of the ministery,resurrection, and death.
The second is is the undertaking of ritualisic actions; or a cult that writes down the prayers or invocations "Holy are you".
The third was transporting the idea of Melchizedek into a future (the symbolism in the crucifixion). Those that are at all interested Ibid NagHammadi, pgs 438-439 Chapter: Melchizedek.



JoecroftThanks for the 'James M. Robertson' breakdown, but I was wondering what your thoughts are, about the Melchizedek text, unless your position mirrors that of Mr. Robertson…? In which case, you can put your feet up and relax lol


He was acting as an editor ONLY; so should not be biased; not within the other terms of the RCC editing the bible (not allowing gnostic texts to appear within those pages of oracle divineness).


vethumanbeingSo to your question, is/was Machiventa Melchizedek Jesus?



JoecroftYeah, and what do you make of my original post to MamaJ on my other thread…Here’s roughly what I posted, in that post…
The Gnostic text “Melchizedek” is interesting, because it starts with the sentence “Jesus Christ, the Son of God”…which seems like a strange way to start a book, about “Melchizedek” which will happen in his name. Furthermore, they will say of him that he is unbegotten, though he has been begotten, (that) he does not eat, even though he eats, (that) he does not drink, even though he drinks, (that) he is uncircumcised, though he has been circumcised, (that) he is unfleshly, though he has come in the flesh, (that) he did not come to suffering, he came to suffering, (that) he did not rise from the dead, he arose from the dead.


This is explained in the third missive; but very unclearly. Is it a metaphor for the human as in it happened someplace else in another dimension, one that is not of heavy matter gross form? You do realise that if all of this is true, Jesus was never of matter, just an insert disguised as such. Nothing really happenned HERE at all; because an IDEA manifested out of nothing to become a truism because the overlay of a belief system by enough souls can actually do this. Heres a problem; if so true Jesus (through prayer) should have achieved by now its second coming.


JoecroftAnd above, from “Melchizedek” again, the above paragraph is clearly talking about Jesus, but then the very next paragraph continues…
But all the tribes and all the peoples will speak the truth who are receiving from you yourself, O Melchizedek, Holy One, High-Priest, the perfect hope and the gifts of life.
Which appears to suggest that Jesus is! really Melchizedek.


I dont have any problem with this assumption; because it opens up many other avenues to explain this being and its timing (insert) into this paradigm.
and the fixers that were placed afterwards, Mohammed in particular.


JoecroftAnd of course Jesus is also referred to as the Holy one, and along with “prince of peace” and “King of righteousness” they are names which are shared by both Jesus and Melchizedek…So what do think…coincidence…?


Not at all. It means the Gnostic texts have not been fully examined VETTED or contemplated as viable historic relics (shame on everyone NOT involved).


vethumanbeing
The 'ideaform' of that Order was stepped down in frequency as a version human matter (obviously flawed). No fully 9 dimentional creature had ever been created before.



Joecroft see…Well, a 9 dimensional being would certainly fit some of those Gnostic accounts of Jesus, along with the NT accounts of him appearing to the disciples, after the resurrection…

YES


vethumanbeing
This man, if fully 9D would have the ability to walk through walls reserrect the dead, turn water into wine, make fishes and loaves of bread out of nothing.



JoecroftSo I take it you don’t lean towards a metaphoric explanation, of Jesus turning water to wine, walking on water, feeding the 5 thousand, with fish and bread etc?


I would lean there, if one studies his consception FALSE where he came from and how he was manifested (he wasnt born in Bethlehem)/ Metaphors are funny in how they are interpreted. I do not come from a faith belief system, more rational/logical. Im on the fence (only because Jesus refuses to proclaim itself; only by its minions unproven 70 years afterdeath that wrote the story some say 30 or 40 not true) . Its His silence that is so profound. This thread was about proving the existance of Jesus and there are other evidences than the bible to say so (hey; so we boor them to death with other information).


vethumanbeing
Oh, you know I am a big 'metaphor' fan, havent looked at Judas.



JoecroftReally…I would never have guessed lol
PS – Happy Neeeeeewwwwww Year…
- JC


And to you as well and to everyone else reading this.
edit on 12-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 09:59 PM
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To the op, why is there no proof of jesus existing outside of biblical reference. Why does there have to be? (this is a faith based system so no proof is required). If I were to tell you that overlays (idea-thoughtforms) have been a prevalent occurance for generations would you believe it; a sacred geometrical form probably not. One can take a form that has positive intent and overlay it upon a region to change the thinking patterns of that populace (you can do this changing the molecular structure of water by blessing it). Why do this; to progress that system into a dramatic positive format for spirital growth. What is being fought against; the natural progression of the human to materialism and high entropy; which will stall the systems (growth). Why has it not been attempted in the middle east for the latter years? Because citizens are on the 'dole' welfare paid for by oil monies coming out of their particular regions and no work ethic is required. Infact (5 times a day) bowing and praying toward Mecca is all that is required. Something is wrong here; the Oil dividend allows 'Faith' to be expressed but how is it interpreted by the natives "manna from God"? No, denars fall from heaven.
edit on 12-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


No matter what your history account says the Gospels were written long before 70 years after Jesus died . They may have been compiled into a book form later on but the Apostles were not young men and lifespans were not exceptionally long back then . Chances are that there is some error in the research you are relying on . 70 years after Jesus died Israel was in ruins and the Jews were scattered . I suppose there was a proclamation that the Gregorian calendar started at zero year after superseding the less accurate Julian calendar at Jesus ' death if anybody actually know what year that was exactly or maybe not .A 1 % error over 2000 years is 20 years and there is no direct calendar of events. So we can not really pin down dates that far back .



posted on Jan, 12 2014 @ 10:22 PM
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SimonPeter
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



SimonPeter
No matter what your history account says the Gospels were written long before 70 years after Jesus died . They may have been compiled into a book form later on but the Apostles were not young men and lifespans were not exceptionally long back then . Chances are that there is some error in the research you are relying on . 70 years after Jesus died Israel was in ruins and the Jews were scattered . I suppose there was a proclamation that the Gregorian calendar started at zero year after superseding the less accurate Julian calendar at Jesus ' death if anybody actually know what year that was exactly or maybe not .A 1 % error over 2000 years is 20 years and there is no direct calendar of events. So we can not really pin down dates that far back .


I dont know; I have many bibles 7; including the King James Version and the Catholic living; they may all be wrong; whos to say (I wasnt there editing). Its all okay; so some dates are off, Jesus wasnt born on dec 25; as a Jew he would have had to have been conceived in September and born in June, Horus was supposedly the Jesus prior template. What do I know? As to dates, the calendars have changed over the years Julian, Gregorian, Mayan. Im in complete (hands in the air) agreement. My own mother doesnt know if she was born in July or August (shes a Maya/Scot) go figure.
edit on 12-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2014 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 

A very interesting thing about the Hebrew calendar is that April is the 1st month .. When people try to figure the date of John the Baptist birth listed as the 6th month in order to calculate the birth of Jesus most use the present day Gregorian calendar without relating to the Hebrew calendar thus error . Then the Jewish calendar has some odd quirks where an extra month is inserted because the Hebrew calendar is a 360 day calendar so no one really knows when John was born thus the same for Jesus . He could have been born near Christmas which was said to be a pagan holiday . I am sure there are a lot of pagan holidays as there were a lot of pagan religions in those days .



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 





Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Solomons seal I suppose the prior one (and you have not looked at the garnet as the explaination of the triangulation of 'star shapes' most involved and complicated of all crystal formations).


Yeah, I was trying to stay clear, of other stars and shapes…although I did manage to get 8 Star of David's, to fit inside the Seal of Melchizedek, which as by product, produced “the 47th problem of Euclid”… funny how things turn out…



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
This is explained in the third missive; but very unclearly. Is it a metaphor for the human as in it happened someplace else in another dimension, one that is not of heavy matter gross form?




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
You do realise that if all of this is true, Jesus was never of matter, just an insert disguised as such. Nothing really happenned HERE at all; because an IDEA manifested out of nothing to become a truism because the overlay of a belief system by enough souls can actually do this. Heres a problem; if so true Jesus (through prayer) should have achieved by now its second coming.


That’s quite a theory you got there lol… gota follow the evidence I guess…




Originally posted by Joecroft
And of course Jesus is also referred to as the Holy one, and along with “prince of peace” and “King of righteousness” they are names which are shared by both Jesus and Melchizedek…So what do think…coincidence…?





Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Not at all. It means the Gnostic texts have not been fully examined VETTED or contemplated as viable historic relics (shame on everyone NOT involved).


Yes, shame on them; but it is pretty strange parallel that Edgar Cayce stated Jesus was a reincarnation of Melchizedek, long before the Nag Hammadi library was uncovered.




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I do not come from a faith belief system, more rational/logical. Im on the fence (only because Jesus refuses to proclaim itself; only by its minions unproven 70 years afterdeath that wrote the story some say 30 or 40 not true).


You’re a Gnostic though right…?

But isn’t Jesus, a huge part of Gnosticism. You see, I would say that the many Gnostic texts, add extra weighted evidence, towards Jesus actual existence, outside that of the New Testament.



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Its His silence that is so profound. This thread was about proving the existance of Jesus and there are other evidences than the bible to say so (hey; so we boor them to death with other information).


So what type of evidence would actually convince you, of his existence?

- JC

edit on 18-1-2014 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2014 @ 04:14 PM
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Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 


veteranhumanbeingRegarding the garnet and its cystaline formation


Joecroft Yeah, I was trying to stay clear, of other stars and shapes…although I did manage to get 8 Star of David's, to fit inside the Seal of Melchizedek, which as by product, produced “the 47th problem of Euclid”… funny how things turn out.



vethumanbeing
This is explained in the third missive; but very unclearly. Is it a metaphor for the human as in it happened someplace else in another dimension, one that is not of heavy matter gross form?


vethumanbeing
You do realise that if all of this is true, Jesus was never of matter, just an insert disguised as such. Nothing really happenned HERE at all; because an IDEA manifested out of nothing to become a truism because the overlay of a belief system by enough souls can actually do this. Heres a problem; if so true Jesus (through prayer) should have achieved by now its second coming.



Joecroft
That’s quite a theory you got there lol… gota follow the evidence I guess.


You know thats how I role; unsubtanciated falderal (but I have help from the other side, not to say I am cheating yet).


Joecroft
And of course Jesus is also referred to as the Holy one, and along with “prince of peace” and “King of righteousness” they are names which are shared by both Jesus and Melchizedek…So what do think…coincidence…?


No coincidence; this moniker Melchizedek and Jesus were to be twined.


vethumanbeing
Not at all. It means the Gnostic texts have not been fully examined VETTED or contemplated as viable historic relics (shame on everyone NOT involved).



JoecroftYes, shame on them; but it is pretty strange parallel that Edgar Cayce stated Jesus was a reincarnation of Melchizedek, long before the Nag Hammadi library was uncovered.


Long before; Cayce had prior knowledge and was couragious enough to proclaim it; ridicule and indurred horrible health problems set aside ignored/killed him eventually.


vethumanbeing
I do not come from a faith belief system, more rational/logical. Im on the fence (only because Jesus refuses to proclaim itself; only by its minions unproven 70 years afterdeath that wrote the story some say 30 or 40 not true).



JoecroftYou’re a Gnostic though right…? But isn’t Jesus, a huge part of Gnosticism. You see, I would say that the many Gnostic texts, add extra weighted evidence, towards Jesus actual existence, outside that of the New Testament.


I percieve myself as gnostic; its my training. As an Essene Jesus would have been by its nature or the insertation into the envioronment he was tasked to CHANGE. He achieved the future dream, but not what he would have invisioned; in fact very angry, and disapointed. That which is professed in his name overtook the larger thing; that of ETERNAL LIFE (the soul/spirit never dies) just moves from experience to experience to improve the quality of its soul.

vethumanbeing
Its His silence that is so profound. This thread was about proving the existance of Jesus and there are other evidences than the bible to say so (hey; so we boor them to death with other information).



JoecroftSo what type of evidence would actually convince you, of his existence?- JC


Im not afraid to say this (and loose all credibilty here); Ive spoken to him befpre. Here is a question from him to you right now.

"Why templeman would you ask The-Res-A such things? as is an oracle and bravely tells the truth; joking always as being Apollonious the mythic truth teller (5 cents please).
I am unhappy about the circumstances of my death; I NEVER agreed to dying in such a dramatic way; the cruciform is an abomination/a torture device that in its form today does not reflect 'resurrection' more SCARE TACTIC DRAMATIC OVERKILL. Im ashamed how my ministry has been so used and warped; it was always about the REAL, the afterlife not this physical makeshift Matter form stage on earth." Jesus 18 Jan 2014.

No apologies here on my end, the truth needs telling and you forced me into it the clues are here as to what is actually afoot.
edit on 18-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 





Originally posted by Joecroft
So what type of evidence would actually convince you, of his existence?





Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Im not afraid to say this (and loose all credibilty here); Ive spoken to him befpre. Here is a question from him to you right now.

"Why templeman would you ask The-Res-A such things? as is an oracle and bravely tells the truth; joking always as being Apollonious the mythic truth teller (5 cents please).


Not sure I understand your question… what’s a “The-Res-A”…?

You mean “…There’s such things?…”

I think you mean, why would I ask you, such questions about evidence?

And other than the simple response, that it’s the topic of the OP lol… I would also add this.

Evidence comes in different forms. When you have many texts, all pointing in a similar direction, regarding such things as, Jesus death by crucifixion, for example; then this is evidence that should lead us, to what is most likely the truth. The evidence becomes accumulative in nature etc…

Of course, it’s never a concrete or absolute proof, (baring some “out there” conspiracy, by the TPB, to fake Jesus death) those things did happen, or that Jesus existed etc…, but it’s certainly the next best thing IMO.

This is why I asked you the question “what type of evidence would actually convince you, of his existence?”…

Think evidence, not theology…


- JC



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


There is no evidence that that electric receptacle with no plugs sticking out of it is energized , but stick a paperclip in it !
So will be that great and terrible time of the Lord . Both great and terrible for the saved who morn for their loved ones and only terrible for the unsaved .



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 



JoecroftNot sure I understand your question… what’s a “The-Res-A”…?
You mean “…There’s such things?…”I think you mean, why would I ask you, such questions about evidence?And other than the simple response, that it’s the topic of the OP lol… I would also add this.


The being you are speaking to. The.Res.A. The (all things) Resonant ONE.
Such a pompous name; sainted even. There is no evidence; it was an overlay geometric (idea) that happenned in another place to be put here on earth to change ugly paradigms; It worked, was it an actual physical occurance, 50/50 Id say; the results far better than anticipated; to a FAULT. You know you try to do something to evolve the culture (a good deed) but no good deed goes unpunished (what can I say the adage is true).


Joecroft Evidence comes in different forms. When you have many texts, all pointing in a similar direction, regarding such things as, Jesus death by crucifixion, for example; then this is evidence that should lead us, to what is most likely the truth. The evidence becomes accumulative in nature etc.


Yes and that was the purpose, the evidence is cumulative throughout the ages, the problem is that (the backfire) was that you must understand this was an oral culture, and stories change with each telling; this was PLANNED to be so. Why? it was test of the tradition to see how far it would go and to what extremes. You must realize this is all an experiment; there are other world environs that are going through the same thing same senarios because it needs to be fine tuned. Im not saying the circumstance of the crucifixion never happenned, it did. Here? or someplace else? Does it really matter because the cause and effect are apparent. Good things came of it and also negligable usership of the 'occurance' as well. All to be expected. Mohammed was a plug in the dike.


JoecroftOf course, it’s never a concrete or absolute proof, (baring some “out there” conspiracy, by the TPB, to fake Jesus death) those things did happen, or that Jesus existed etc…, but it’s certainly the next best thing IMO.
This is why I asked you the question “what type of evidence would actually convince you, of his existence?”…Think evidence, not theology. JC


No conspiracies at all just trials and resulting errors is all; its flawed, but it does work to move the humans spirit along in progress (the entire point). Jesus physical existance as evidence? Spiritually as in inserted thoughtform of "Christ Consciousness"I know IT/HE exists, otherwise I have a failsafe built in. Imposters gain no entry.
edit on 19-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The being you are speaking to. The.Res.A. The (all things) Resonant ONE.
Such a pompous name; sainted even.


“The Resonant ONE”… LOL

Of all the (jim jam joints) threads, in all the infinite multiple universes, you had to walk into mine… lol

Man, my sides are killing me, I can hardly type for laughing…

*Tries to compose himself*

Greetings oh, “Resonant ONE”, glad to (finally) make your acquaintance…

I’m The Croft, aka The Joe… lol

Thanks for your replies…

- JC



posted on Jan, 19 2014 @ 05:46 PM
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Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 



Originally posted by veteranhumanbeing
The being you are speaking to. The.Res.A. The (all things) Resonant ONE.
Such a pompous name; sainted even.



Joecroft“The Resonant ONE”… LOL Of all the (jim jam joints) threads, in all the infinite multiple universes, you had to walk into mine… lol


I never said I liked the name; it was given to me; I said it was pompous, meaning inflated overrated (embarrasing actally). So, you are saying we know each other from somewhere else and this is more than just a meeting of serendipity? (chance meeting at BuckStars 'cappachino please'). Or an accidental runover accident and meet in the emergency room determining if/how you will move on without your BODYFORM (spirit intact?). NoPE it was actually a Gin Joint Jazz Bar in Casablanca.


JoecroftMan, my sides are killing me, I can hardly type for laughing…
*Tries to compose himself*Greetings oh, “Resonant ONE”, glad to (finally) make your acquaintance.


No problem; it took you long enough.


Joecroft I’m The Croft, aka The Joe… lol
Thanks for your replies…- JC


And why not? You are a wonderful platform because you are in 'knowledge' although I suspect are not AT ALL aware of how significant it is. If it comforts you to see this in a "Chuckle Hut Comedy Club" senario is fine; (Jesus next scheduled guest star). How can anyone wrap their minds around this tragic/comedy: the Chasing (DEFINING) Gods Tail/Tale or its minion starlets; that fail to tell or leave the truth (EVIDENCE AS YOU SAY NOT THERE). But there is the tantilizing "hey big boy" I am here if you can percieve me.
edit on 19-1-2014 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 





Originally posted by SimonPeter
There is no evidence that that electric receptacle with no plugs sticking out of it is energized , but stick a paperclip in it!
So will be that great and terrible time of the Lord. Both great and terrible for the saved who morn for their loved ones and only terrible for the unsaved.


I have different take on things. IMO God is not about fear at all. God just wants us to get know him, and for people to seek him out.



Luke 6:31
Do to others as you would have them do to you.




Luke 6:37
37 ‘Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.




Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.


How can God condemn me to Hell forever, or eternal destruction, when I don’t condemn others, in the same manner…? And neither would I wish that upon anyone; not even my worst enemy…

The time you speak of, “the great and terrible time of the YHWH”, is already upon us, and has been with us, since the beginning.

People walk in darkness, because they neither know themselves, or the Father. True salvation IMO comes from entering into a relationship with God, whereby one begins to walk a righteous path. For the Kingdom of Heaven is to be found within a person.

- JC



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 





Originally posted by vethumanbeing
There is no evidence; it was an overlay geometric (idea) that happenned in another place to be put here on earth to change ugly paradigms; It worked, was it an actual physical occurance, 50/50 Id say;



Hmmm you say, “There is no evidence;”…and yet go on to say that your “50/50” as to it being an actual physical occurrence…?

Regardless of your answer to my above question, there IS a lot of evidence…IMO… Much of which flows in a similar direction, which although not conclusive proof itself, it is still, what I would call, accumulative evidence.

For example, if you find a note, in a coffee shop, that has written on it “Joe Croft was here”. This is one piece of evidence which suggests, I was at the coffee shop. On it’s own, it doesn’t prove I was there, but it’s still a piece of evidence, none the less. And the more evidence you add/collect to it, the more accumulative it becomes.



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
So, you are saying we know each other from somewhere else and this is more than just a meeting of serendipity?


Not exactly. I’ve known and interacted with Vethumanbeing for while now on ATS, and then suddenly this “Resonant ONE”, being, shows up. More of a “tongue in cheek” thing really.



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I never said I liked the name; it was given to me; I said it was pompous, meaning inflated overrated (embarrasing actally).


Who gave you the name…? And why…?


- JC



posted on Jan, 20 2014 @ 04:50 PM
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Joecroft
reply to post by veteranhumanbeing
 


Originally posted by vethumanbeing
There is no evidence; it was an overlay geometric (idea) that happenned in another place to be put here on earth to change ugly paradigms; It worked, was it an actual physical occurance, 50/50 Id say;



Joecroft
Hmmm you say, “There is no evidence;”…and yet go on to say that your “50/50” as to it being an actual physical occurrence…?


Im looking at it in the perspective of the Melchizedeks; they were as an 'order' never solid matter. Only one is percieved as being such, Machiventa 'The Priest of Salem'
that lived for 370 years. Would you call this at all reasonable or a myth?
Its stated in the bible as being FACT.


JoecroftRegardless of your answer to my above question, there IS a lot of evidence…IMO… Much of which flows in a similar direction, which although not conclusive proof itself, it is still, what I would call, accumulative evidence.
For example, if you find a note, in a coffee shop, that has written on it “Joe Croft was here”. This is one piece of evidence which suggests, I was at the coffee shop. On it’s own, it doesn’t prove I was there, but it’s still a piece of evidence, none the less. And the more evidence you add/collect to it, the more accumulative it becomes.


Evidence exists in the Gnostic Texts; which are have been totally disregarded. If I picked up a napkin in BuckStars and was written "KILLROY WAS HERE" my ears would have pricked. There is nothing in this Universe that is not prior planned including everyone on this Website ATS communicating their thoughts and feelings about those things significant to their thought processes or future POSITIVE actions physically, mentally. You were there at the coffee shop (metaphorically) you are here speaking to me physically and mentally.


Joecroft
So, you are saying we know each other from somewhere else and this is more than just a meeting of serendipity?


YES.


JoecroftNot exactly. I’ve known and interacted with Vethumanbeing for while now on ATS, and then suddenly this “Resonant ONE”, being, shows up. More of a “tongue in cheek” thing really.


Thats just another name Im called; (as a composit being) here we go again all credibility lost (thanks Templeman for flushing US out). Come on its always been me.


vethumanbeing
I never said I liked the name; it was given to me; I said it was pompous, meaning inflated overrated (embarrasing actally).



JoecroftWho gave you the name…? And why…?- JC


I asked simply; it was 17 years ago and asked about a moniker. I was concidering "Tarzana" and was told in no uncertain terms the name had to be Veteran Human Being. I think 'Blue Resonant Human' had something to do with this (that is another story). The idea behind the name was that I have been encarnated before as 'something' so, at moment of birth in stubborness must accept from day one I am a veteran of the human specie. Thanks for asking BTW and again, what does "JOECROFT" mean, you have told it before...



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