Why is there no real proof of Jesus existing outside of biblical references?

Joecroft
reply to post by vethumanbeing

Originally posted by vethumanbeing
The second name is my birth name, its meaning is carved up into syllables and in so doing means The.RES.A is all (dictionary time)

JoecroftThat’s an amazing birth name. Reminds of the plains Indians, who would name their children, after their characteristics. Like “Running Tiger”, or “Eagle Eyes”, or “Dances with wolves” etc…Your three syllables, would produce the following…
Res = A thing… matter
On = position of contact with another object
Ate = past of eat
Or…Ate = a Greek goddess personifying foolhardy and ruinous impulse…
Good luck, with that last one lol

Well, thanks for the last one, hadnt seen that one coming (dispense with all Greek goddesses or Catholic Sainted nuns NOW) before it is too late; and another one manifests.

JoecroftNot sure what the syllables are meant to signify, when considered separately…Definition of Resonate…

To continue to produce a loud, clear, deep sound for a long time
To have particular meaning or importance for someone : to affect or appeal to someone in a personal or emotional way

.

You know I am a loud mouth, as Akushla99 says "a strong willed type". So I suppose that fits. I would never admit to sneaky manipulations of others (but there it is), its more of a gentle nudging type.

Joecroft]So perhaps you are One, who brings meaning, that is important and will resonate (connect) with others.

Yes, in keeping with my blind path, try and try again until it works; I will say this its trialsome/challenging. (here is the thing Joe, I am the One secretly hidding here on ATS wondering who will eventually recognise me) pinky sware "dont tell anyone I said or revealed this revelation to you alone".

VHB
This is a wonderful name; and you chose it all by yourself with no help?

JoecroftThanks…Well, there was no voice saying, “in no uncertain terms your name (handle name for ATS) must be “X” etc…And this may sound ridiculous, but when I chose it, I only found out the meaning of it, later on! (braces for impact, from rotten tomatoes)…so maybe in the grand scheme of things…I did get some help.

From what you just revealed I would say so, but its always that way. My name was told to me in 1996; years before I became a member here not even knowing why. Of course you had help; Joecroft, the real meaning behind the moniker.

VHB Before I realized I was a telepath, or what the heck I thought I was doing in becoming a human? (Belly LAUGHER and FRESH not rotten tomatoes are allowed).

JoecroftI’ll try to keep a straight face on this one. Reading between the lines it seems, to me at least, that you may have received your (ATS) handle name, via telepathic input.

No, unless I was timetraveling; this website came into existance in 2001 or 2. So no, however? 'Blue Resonant Humans' website was called something like this 'DENSITY4; presented to you by 'brotherblue' happened at exactly the same time. Dialing SkepticOverload now..ring ring (I will hang up as the coward I am).

JoecroftAnd I gota ask…how did you become human…? And what were you before…?

My mother and father had a mental lapse and thought they would create the one, the Origin in the flesh; feed it fried baloney sandwiches, and see just what the abomination would turn out to be (and met every expectation of).

VHB
I had no idea but IT was very specific. Websters unabridged describes these individual syllables in my birth name. Everything about your path is hidden your names, given at birth or picked as an identifier; as they are numbers as well holding great meaning.

JoecroftSo there’s numbers in both your names. I can understand why you’ve been given a special birth name, but not so sure as to why you’ve been given a specific handle name, for ATS? And how are you deriving these numbers from both your names? I’m curious, because I’d like to find out the mathematical numbers associated with my own handle name, if that’s possible…? - JC

I havent looked at the moniker, I know the numeralogy within the birth name and date of birth. I should look into it, maybe even try to combine the final number at the end, the birth one reduces to 11 the birth date to 11, I wonder if VHB will also reduce to an 11 which is a master vibratory number. You can do this with your own name/the number value to each letter is added then reduced. This is very easy to do with a rudimentary book on numerology (dont get one thats complicated).

reply to post by Scope and a Beam


Top and bottom of it, does it actually matter? I mean, it would be awesome if some archaeologist type dug up Jesus's actual skeleton, and you could see the spear marks on the ribs, and pinch yer sphincter at the mess they made of his meta-tarsals and stuff, but would it actually make a difference to anything? Us, here, now. We are the only thing that can make a difference.

reply to post by Joecroft


There are people who would believe people living 969 years based on some scientific findings . Before the flood the Suns radiation was primarily blocked by the thick clouds of water . Remember it never rained before the flood . Radiation from the sun damages every thing including you . It was discovered that artifacts deep underground or in a thick rock pyramid decayed much slower than those exposed to the Sun . The theory is that all of that water in the atmosphere above would have increased the atmospheric pressure and therefore more concentrated oxygen in that atmosphere from the weight of that water .
Then immediately after the flood and the clouds were gone and mans aging process increased from that point on until the average age of 70 years .
Radiation is thought to reduce the regenerative or rejuvenative capability of the body .

reply to post by freebornman


Actually if you could find the skeleton of Jesus Christ there would be no reason for JOY ! Think about it .
Faith is not fact , it has no physical proof . But then neither does the Big Bang , or Evolution .

reply to post by SimonPeter

SimonPeter, your first sentence I will consider, your second I will agree with entirely. We all find truth in different places, the main thing is to look, and encourage others to do the same.

reply to post by SimonPeter

Originally posted by SimonPeter
That great and terrible time is described as the Day of the Lord and that shall be the day of his return .
Joel 2:28-32

I think those verses in Joel 2:28-32, are talking about a time in the past, that has already happened, in connection to Jerusalem restoring back, it’s stolen gold from Tyre and Sidon.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
In Matthew chapter 24 verse 29 --31 is that time . The point being after the 3 1/2 year Tribulation and before the Wrath.

Those verses about Gods wrath, and how they are in turn connected to a final day judgment, and Hell, are a theology, that was added/edited into the NT documents IMO...

The sole purpose being, to tie Jesus teachings in, with the Old Testament beliefs of Hell, which IMO came originally from men, and their traditions, to help keep power and authority over others.

I believe Jesus original teachings, were subverted by the Roman and Jewish authorities. Truth was mixed in with lies, and people were forced to follow it, at the point of sword.

These verses below…

Matthew 24:37-41
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

Matthew 24:50-51
50The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Show a type of judgment, that just doesn’t add up to Jesus words, in the verses below…

Luke 6:31
Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Luke 6:37
37 ‘Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.

Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

And not only that, but in the same chapter below…

Matthew 24:32-34
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

The verse states, “this generation will certainly not pass away, until all these things have happened.”

Now surely that generation, being addressed, in the above passage, has already passed away.

Which means that what’s written in those verses, must either be for that specific time only, or it’s completely false, because it never happened in that generation.

- JC

reply to post by freebornman


Evidently you did not consider that if Jesus went down and preached in hell and then appeared back in the body with the Disciples . Then doubting Thomas put his fingers into the wound of Jesus , then Jesus ascended into heaven with the first fruits . ( well known people who's graves opened when Jesus arose and they walked about for 2 weeks in Jerusalem )
If you find Jesus body then he was not the Lord and Savior . He ascended with his earthly body .

On a related, if somewhat tangential, note, I have been reading Raymond Brown's The Death of the Messiah. Fascinating piece of scholarship, although a bit weighty at more than 900 pages for volume 1 alone. I recommend it, particularly for anyone with an interest in serious biblical scholarship.

It looks to me like there are some fairly convincing arguments for the existence of a Passion Narrative prior to the Gospels, from which the Evangelists were able to draw. Of course, there is the attendant hypothesizing and groping along in the dark. But it is definitely worth a read if you have the time.

reply to post by Joecroft


Clearly you need to take those verses in context .


Joel 2 verse 28 thru 31 is talking about the 2nd coming . This has not happened yet .

Matthew 24 verse 29 thru 31 is talking about the 2nd coming of the Lord Jesus . This is talking about the 1st half of Tribulation not wrath .This has not happened yet .

Matthew 24 verse 32 thru 34 is about the second coming . Jesus is telling you when you see Israel ( the fig tree ) putting forth its branches ( Jesus just told of Jerusalem being destroyed and the Jews scattered now he is saying when they become a nation again at that time this generation or people born at that time will live long enough to see these things come to pass )meaning from March of 1948 plus 70 years or less . That doesn't leave much time .

reply to post by Joecroft


There has not been any adulteration of the Bible and that has been proven . Jesus came the first time as a Lamb but the Second Coming as a Roaring Lion . You have to read carefully to see the context that the verse was written in .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Proven?

wtf?

where did you get that from?

Its been proven that there has been plenty of edits from the original bits and pieces we have

1 John 5:7 comes to mind immediately

SimonPeter
reply to post by Joecroft

 

There has not been any adulteration of the Bible and that has been proven .

I disagree. The first five centuries of the Church involved constant adulteration of both Scripture and dogma. See Adolf Harnack's Geschichte der altchristlichen Litteratur bis Eusebius, in particular, volume 1, part 1, for an overview of the details.

reply to post by Akragon


The church of Rome did not change the New Testament message but then you didn't take time to read what was being said did you . You want to key on a single point . The New Testament letters and writings was disseminated through our the known world before Rome had a copy and those copies not in Roman hands match the NT with a 95% accuracy . The message did not change .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Considering the bible wasn't compiled until the third century... I highly doubt rome had no part in its creation...

Even revelation wasn't a part of the book until the 4th century...

And even considering what you just said 95% is hardly unedited... IF that number is even accurate

reply to post by Spectral Norm


I don't base my faith on everything published . What was his qualifications ? When did he write it ? What was he trying to prove ?

reply to post by Akragon


The bible was written long before the 3rd century though wasn't it . And people have got off their duffs and checked out the Bible s produced from the scrolls and NT writings long long ago . If there would have been problems they would have attacked it just like your doing . Surely you don't think you are the first in history to doubt the Catholics .

reply to post by SimonPeter


And unfortunately a few "scribes" decided to add their own little bits and pieces to the book while they copied and recopied the texts as well...

For example the story of the lady caught in adultery... where Jesus said whoever is without sin cast the first stone...

that story is not in the original greek texts... it was a later addition...

And theres several others as well...

the bible is far from "unedited" my friend.... despite what you may believe

There is also hardly ANY evidence of where he was from the time of his leaving Nazareth to a few years before the Crucifixion, most of the events re him creating his disciples to his crucifixion happened over a time of only 2-3 years.

There are numerous theories that he went to India and studied there, but even though there are lots of writings from the area of India / China from that time, NONE of them mention the religious prophet that was supposedly there to study and was going to save the world.

Not a single piece of religious writing from anywhere explains where he went for most of his life.

SimonPeter
reply to post by Akragon

 

The bible was written long before the 3rd century though wasn't it . And people have got off their duffs and checked out the Bible s produced from the scrolls and NT writings long long ago . If there would have been problems they would have attacked it just like your doing . Surely you don't think you are the first in history to doubt the Catholics .

Actually, no. Most of The Bible was written hundreds of years (200 - 300) after the events, and would have been hearsay and conjecture at best. By the time the stories were written down, they would have passed through generations of story tellers and the facts would have been twisted and changed each time, and blank spots made up when memory failed. The stories would have been regarded as myths and legends by the people that finally ended up writing them down. Then, the Council of Mycenae spent years deliberating over which stories got to be included and which didn't. To call The Bible "the word of God" is absolutely ridiculous.

Try seeing how your family recounts big family events that happened even 10 years ago, and I bet you get several very different versions of what actually happened.

reply to post by babybunnies


Actually there is one instance where he was mentioned apparently...

The life of Issa

But there are many who claim the story was fabricated...

And that was the council of Laodicea... by the way