Avoiding Spiritual Burnout and Dark Night of the Soul

reply to post by Realtruth


I understand that you and I see things very differently. There is the force of love vs. the force of evil. It is all a test to grow to spiritual maturity, and in this we fail through sinning against the law of love. This then puts us under a condition of of slavery in that sin, and we are not free. Whether Adam brought sin into the world or not, none of us is without fault and sin. If you deny you sin, then you have deceived yourself, and truth will elude you.

Being a messianic believer and having had enough happen in my life on the spiritual level to be assured of the truth of my creator God, and his son Yeshua. I have seen miracles, evil, and freedom from evil by simple acceptance of that truth and obedience and love for that truth.

We all have the narcissistic tendency to now want to believe there is anything beyond ourselves that is greater than us. We do not want to be held accountable, but there is accountability, and each soul does come to that realization eventually.

Again, I doubt we will come to agreement and that is ok. Truth will eventually be revealed to all of us, and none of us has all the answers, that is what the journey is for.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by preludefanguy

 

Yup.

For much of my life I followed a path that few ever follow.. I did
it because I knew it could take me where I wanted to go. It's called
the path of willingly accepted suffering. I accepted not just my own
suffering, but I accepted the suffering of all the world and all the
worlds.. I wanted to accept all suffering, so that I wouldn't be afraid
or avoidant.

So, you did this act of suffering for the universe so that you would not be afraid to suffer? That is interesting, and in the end what do you hope to gain or feel you gained by it?

There is truth in embracing suffering to stop it's negative affect on ourselves. I did this years back when after suffering incredible pain from a compound fracture of my lower leg that made standing and walking near agony at times after 10 years of "recovery" and I simply accepted my pain, loved my condition literally, and the pain stopped. I had known this for a long time, but did not implement it for myself in this very physical situation. Self acceptance is crucial to healing, and in that I see value, but taking on the world suffering? For what purpose?

Are you attempting to heal the world and universe? Isn't that what a Messiah is for? Do you think your act has taken the pain of others away ? I am not saying it is or is not, I am asking you what you think doing this is causing.

It sort of reminds me of the healing practice of ho'oponopono healing, which does seem to bring healing to people. We are powerful beings, and spiritual wounds are real. People have to come to their own understanding of their pain though to properly mature and be healed.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


I've always been something of a mana personality from birth. I do things because they are worth doing and don't overly worry about labeling; as labeling often disrupts a wholesome mind.

Once you label something as good you create evil. Once you begin fighting evil you become trapped in an endless loop of suffering.

But if you live without embodying compassion you become trapped in an endless loop of suffering.

The way of freedom bypasses these logistic errors.

A few Buddhists and yogins and a few others seem to have found freedom almost by accident.

The systems of the world are designed to keep people trapped to service 'the field'.

Isn't existence in separation suffering.
Many have chosen suffering.

How can the spirit burnout?
The spirit is perfect matter.

The [ separate] person does and can burnout .

reply to post by BDBinc


This is correct.

reply to post by Baddogma


Here's a little tip for you that you might find useful;
The magnitude of a person's spiritual hunger and thirst is a direct measure of how trapped they are.

Trying to not be hungry and thirsty won't work.

Stoking the hunger and making it worse is a lefthand path such the chrisrian mystical path of seeking divine madness or most forms of kundalini yoga.

Pure forms such as zen can only work under perfect conditions for a very few.

Stoking the fire of formless compassion can free you; that is one example of a middle way that actually works.

Once the fire of formless compassion ownss you,
a 'wholesome power' comes to fill you in every tissue and cubbyhole. Feeling so full all the time, the self-making circuits stop seeking to find spiritual truths to build an immortal phantasy self and become retrofitted to be of service to a greater sphere of life.

Beyond all the spiritual and religious bs control systems; this is actual liberation. And there is not necessarily anything 'spiritual' about it. You can simply call it human adulthood, so as to not form a cult of personality around someone; which would be unwarranted.

Was this helpful?

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by UnifiedSerenity

 

I've always been something of a mana personality from birth. I do things because they are worth doing and don't overly worry about labeling; as labeling often disrupts a wholesome mind.

Once you label something as good you create evil. Once you begin fighting evil you become trapped in an endless loop of suffering.

But if you live without embodying compassion you become trapped in an endless loop of suffering.

The way of freedom bypasses these logistic errors.

A few Buddhists and yogins and a few others seem to have found freedom almost by accident.

The systems of the world are designed to keep people trapped to service 'the field'.

By your reasoning, you create suffering because you embody compassion. The truth is, there is evil and there is good. There is truth and there are lies. There is suffering and there is compassion. It's all lessons in the end.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


I wouldn't dream of disturbing your solid convictions.

Thanks for your response.

KPB

Who can avoid the void?
The one that is 'avoiding' is the seeker.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

Hi KellyPrettyBear - I haven't finished going through your thesis/OP...but wanted to address the first thing that caught my mind's eye, before letting it slip...

I would contend with the notion that "we all come into the world with a hole to fill"...

Not that I know this "notion" to be wrong, but - how could one know "how" they would have viewed themselves and the world if they had not been "told" that they had a hole that needed filling?

Perhaps you have had this experience - - - came into the world, blank as a sheet of unused and undirtied copy paper...and no-one told you that you were going to die, just for being...born.

Maybe no-one told you that You were a Sinner...and EVERYONE was born...A Sinner...and EVERYONE was going to Hell unless they accepted the RIGHT religion/belief-system/WAY/God/(etc)...then...did everything right...though...they...couldn't... ...and on and on anon...anon...

I, though, cannot address the question...without prejudice.

I was told that I
was a Sinner
(Hell-bound),
day in and day out...
...and that, almost
every move I made,
every thought thunk,
every desire, utterance, inclination, etc...
was born of evil...
and/but, fortunately, for me,
I was born
to the right parents,
in the right nation, religion, denomination, household, era, etc
...and...
if I had not been
- there would probably have been NO HOPE
for me - as,
the odds were terribly slim
that I would ever have done, or wished or inclined appropriately enough
to have touched The Almighty's heart
enough
to commission one of the Faithful & Annointed messengers
to leave their home/s &/or land/s...
and find me...and...
convert me...
- And -
since this was BEATEN into my front and back sides
repeatedly
and fervently
(frantically, zealously, and in frenzied rage)
almost every day of every week...and especially on
SUNDAYs
...I GOT THE MESSAGE ------------
Oh - Yeah - There's a hole in "my heart" that needs filling...
But...
... ... ...
...I don't know that I would have gotten the same message...if the "parent/authority" God placed directly over my upbringing & tutelage...hadn't been so - - - - uhhhh...outrageous...in delivery of the message...

Will get back to your thesis now.
Hope I haven't simply re-stated the rest of your OP...
If so...will come back and Edit this before time runs out (hopefully).
Thanks.

reply to post by WanDash


There is a hole in your heart that can't be filled by mind, thought's.

DrunkYogi
reply to post by WanDash

 

There is a hole in your heart that can't be filled by mind, thought's.

Well, thanks DrunkYogi,
I don't know if your quip is offered in consolation or as a tease...
I'm guessing that this is something you believe, or at least - have been taught/told.
I cannot say if it is right or wrong - but can say that it is worthless to me, presently, without some back-story or validation.
Thanks again - if the effort was sincere.

reply to post by WanDash


The concept of sin is perhaps the most mentally deranged concept ever created by human minds.

This thread is not about religion. If I had wanted to discuss religion I would have posted in a religion forum.

Please do not contribute to thread drift.

Thank you.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by WanDash

 

...The concept of sin is perhaps the most mentally deranged concept ever created by human minds.
...This thread is not about religion. If I had wanted to discuss religion I would have posted in a religion forum.
...Please do not contribute to thread drift.
Thank you.

If I had wanted to discuss religion - I would have discussed religion.
Rather - I spoke directly to the first premise of your OP...

...Spirituality is such a strange duck, because as most everyone will admit, humans come into the world with a 'hole in their heart' and most humans either 'drink the cool aide' of some faith or system hook line and sinker, in an attempt to fill this hole...

(underline and italic added by me for highlight)
You brought it up as a founding stone of your treatise - and, when questioned...said "I don't want to talk about it...and if you do - you're contributing to thread drift"...
That seems a tad hypocritical, to me.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I questioned your first premise. Generally - that is how testing a statement, argument or explanation works.
I offered a hefty dose of background for "why" I questioned your first premise.
I did not say you were wrong - but rather, that my experience was not such that I could simply accept "said premise", and move merrily forward with the remainder of your statements/arguments.
After reading through the remainder of your argument/s - I found them entertaining, and, at times, verging on enlightening...
But, they each seemed to build upon some unproven &/or unaccepted (by me, at least) body of knowledge...and, just as in a course of Introduction to Algebra - if one does not see the logical flow, they challenge the premises (as I have done) until understanding is acquired - or otherwise.
Thanks again.

reply to post by WanDash


Thanks for that response. You did bring up an interesting point.

A fundamental assumption in modern spirituality and science both is that the concept of sin is invalid.
There are probably other assumptions which spiritual, honest and loving people take for granted as part of their daily lives.

I know that these assumptions are not necessarily honored in religion; in fact religion by its very nature is hateful and demeaning due to the inaccuracies inherent in them; due largely to claiming that they speak for 'god' when they do not.

I have seen various people receive benefit in this thread, so I will not stand by meekly while someone attempts to use intimidating off topic religious content to prevent a fruitful convesation from occurring.

This thread had nothing to do with 'sin' or 'god'.

If you wish to speak in terms of modern practicing useful and life affirming metaphysics then that is the purpose of the thread.

But zero concepts from modern religion apply here.

Thanks for your understanding.

Hey brother. I'm honored to feel a connection to you. Some things you've said here have been helpful to me.

Since 2010 I've found many brothers, sisters, lovers, friends, offspring, parents, enemies, healers, teachers, and alternate identities in the dream-world. Whatever that is. Some would say the dream-world is 'just in our skulls', reducible to mere brain cells.

But I can't agree with a reductionist viewpoint. I've had too many anomalous dreams, for example dreams of the future that come true, to reduce it all to a meaningless materialistic paradigm.

The dream-world is relentless... I can't endure it. Every time I find a measure of inner peace, a dream comes along and snatches it away. If avoiding burnout was merely a matter of what goes on in the waking state I could avoid it. But I don't have enough control of what happens in the dream-state to avoid conflict and burnout. I don't want to dream anymore. I've had more than my fair share.

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by WanDash

 

...Thanks for that response...
...I have seen various people receive benefit in this thread, so I will not stand by meekly while someone attempts to use intimidating off topic religious content to prevent a fruitful convesation from occurring.
...This thread had nothing to do with 'sin' or 'god'.
...If you wish to speak in terms of modern practicing useful and life affirming metaphysics then that is the purpose of the thread.
...But zero concepts from modern religion apply here.
...Thanks for your understanding.

Perhaps I should repeat that...I have no desire or intent to "discuss" religion...
I was drawn to the thread because of your mention (thread title) of the dark night of the soul.
I've seen what you have to say of it...and the third death, compassion, etc...
Nevertheless - in any consideration - if one is not satisfied with the fundamental precepts, little learning will be made, aside from "memorization".
You say that virtually everyone agrees that we come into this world knowing there is a hole in our heart/s that needs filling.
My question is - "How do you know this?"
Without the influences of our formative years - would virtually everyone...still agree?
This - I do not know. But, because of it (and what you contend was an attempt at intimidating off topic religious content), and your apparent misunderstanding of what I said and/or intended, and the subsequent refusal to address my question...I am having difficulty clearing the first hurdle of your OP.
There is no need to contend with this - unless you feel you possess a handle on the subject-matter significant enough to shed light on my cloudy question.
Thanks again.

reply to post by BlueMule


It's possible to prime your inner self with a molten fire which consumes no fuel; which never strains but only hugs.

Spiritual impatience is often a major issue.

If I can help in any way please let me know.

BlueMule
If avoiding burnout was merely a matter of what goes on in the waking state I could avoid it. but I don't have enough control of what happens in the dream-state.

Trying to keep or trying to 'avoid' is the struggle, the separation - it is not allowing all that is, to be just as it is.

reply to post by WanDash


Fair enough.

Get ready for a long conversation if you wish.

First things first.

Have you ever felt a hole in your heart or mind?
Have you ever felt an incompleteness or fear or existential worry? Or a thirst to know the unknowable? Or to not ever be alone even when alone?